Aux light setup.
- Thread starter MoGas
- Start date
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
How effective are the lights if they are back a bit from the ridge of the roof? I'm thinking of mounting some, but not with the typical Discover roof rack. I just wanted to put a bar on the factory rails and put the lights on that. But the front of the rack is set back about 6-10" from the front edge of the roof.
I'm just wondering, because you do need to aim them down at the ground in front of the truck (Unless they are pencils, which I don't want) and there's no point lighting up just my roof.
I'm just wondering, because you do need to aim them down at the ground in front of the truck (Unless they are pencils, which I don't want) and there's no point lighting up just my roof.
RAM5500 CAMPERTHING
OG Portal Member #183
Mike S said:
:iagree:
Mike S
Sponsor - AutoHomeUSA
No heat issues. One reason is that I have the nonwinch ARB and it gets a lot of airflow from under the front of the bumper.MoGas said:
The driving lights are a fairly wide beam (they have a small 'running light bulb also), and angled to light the front and side of the road just ahead of the vehicle. The pencil beam gives a look at what's way out in front.
I usually have a tent on the roof rack, but I still think all the lights on the roof are kinda' Bubba looking. Your mileage may vary.
Mike S
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R_Lefebvre said:
If you are going to use floods, fogs, or similar lights for closer, general lighting on the trail, a roof is not such a good place to put the lights. The angle from roof across the hood leaves a dark area out in front, or worse, the light will wash across the hood and make too much glare. For general, close front light, the front of the vehicle (bumpers) is better. For side lighting or for wider dispersion to the front and sides, a mount at the side of the hood up against the windshield works fairly well, as long as the lights are aimed well out to the side. For the most part, any light washing over the hood will decrease night visibility when trying to see up close. Every color, including flat black, will bounce light back at you and diminish the effective vision out the front of the vehicle if the hood is strongly illuminated.
Also, if it is dusty, lights on the roof will leave you about blind due to bounce back. Take a look at the photos posted earlier in this thread, and you can see the track of the pencil beams mounted on the roof. Imagine that same photo if there was a lot of trail dust in front of the car. Just as with snow and fog, top mounted lights are a hinderance in most any but relatively clear air, and are best left for medium to long range lighting needs with driving lights or spots, or for side facing down light. Top mounted lights work best for fast desert driving, in my opinion.
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
That's kinda what I was thinking, but then why did they have them in Camel Trophy? It's kind of the quintessential installation that so many of us are looking to copy for appearance or functional reasons.
StumpXJ
SE Expedition Society
I have noticed a better side light from my top lights because they are so far behind where I am sitting. Obviously, as stated, if there are airborn particles (dust, rain, snow, fog, etc.) the higher the light, the worse bounce back you will have. I can confirm this first hand, as I have used my roof lights in the snow, fog and rain. BUT, if it is fairly clear, as it is quite a bit, my roof lights are far better than my forward mounted/lower lights. I have never been in a dusty situation over hear, but do have plenty of fog and snow.
We all have our opinions, hopefully you have the ability to try a couple different set-ups to see what works best for you.
~James
We all have our opinions, hopefully you have the ability to try a couple different set-ups to see what works best for you.
~James
R_Lefebvre said:
Probably, you would have to ask someone who has been involved in Camel Trophy. There could be all kinds of reasons, including protection of the lights (expected deep water crossings and such, but not necessarily a lot of low tree limbs for example) or just a convenient place to mount lights. If you beat your way through brush regularly, your lights will suffer quickly if they are mounted on the bumper, as I can attest from racing in the outback at night. Then, experience in the venue might make roof mounted lights an obvious choice for a number of hard to imagine reasons.
There have been lots of times when I wished I had some lights up top because they can and do give you an angle advantage when trying to spread out light. There are simply times when they don't work all that well, and you have to evaluate how and where you will be using light to get an idea of what will work for you. For night racing in the bush, I have 10 HID's around the vehicle, two of which point backwards, and as strange as it might seem, when the rear facing lights are turned on, I can see better in most any situation because light is continuous around the car. I get better peripheral vision and a greater sense of near daylight conditions, which just makes it more comfortable to go fast in the dark. If I had it to do again, I would move another pair of lights from the bumper up to the windshield cowl posts. The drivers work better up that high, they are just below my line of sight so I am almost literally looking down the light path, dust glare is somewhat reduced versus overhead light, and because I can't get them any farther apart on the car, the beam spread is maximized. So, I have come to like having one set of drivers up that high. A small flood light mounted in the same position but pointed down and out to the side gives an excellent spread of close, diffuse light, and I would return the 5" floods to the cowl post again for racing, paired with the 6 drivers. I may do it anyway one of these days.
Rather than simply copy someone else's mounting system, try various methods of your own, even if you have to mock up something temporarily. Try them out in conditions like those you intend to use them, not just sitting on a dark road somewhere or pointed at a garage wall. Only by driving around off road at night will you get an idea of how well your lights work.
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
I was thinking about it a little more and remembered one of the good reasons for mounting lights high. When the lights are mounted low, the beam gets cut off at the top of any bumps in the road. Therefore, you can't see anything past the highest point in your path.
What's past that bump, is it flat, or is there a huge hole? I dunno, I can only see the bump, and just blackness behind it.
Having the lights up top allows the beam to project *over* the bumps and rises, so you can see past them.
When the lights are higher than your eyeballs, they project light downwards meaning that you can see anything in your line of sight. When the lights are lower than your eyeballs, the do not project light into the lower areas, and there will be areas that are hidden that you could see if only there was better light.
I get this effect a lot of my cars with bumper mounted driving lights that are really quite close to the ground compared to my eyeballs. If there is any rise in the road, I can't see what's past it. In one case where I mounted the lights up higher sort of at hood level, I could see much more on uneven roads.
What's past that bump, is it flat, or is there a huge hole? I dunno, I can only see the bump, and just blackness behind it.
Having the lights up top allows the beam to project *over* the bumps and rises, so you can see past them.
When the lights are higher than your eyeballs, they project light downwards meaning that you can see anything in your line of sight. When the lights are lower than your eyeballs, the do not project light into the lower areas, and there will be areas that are hidden that you could see if only there was better light.
I get this effect a lot of my cars with bumper mounted driving lights that are really quite close to the ground compared to my eyeballs. If there is any rise in the road, I can't see what's past it. In one case where I mounted the lights up higher sort of at hood level, I could see much more on uneven roads.
Unless you have a really low bumper and a really high seating position, the angle difference between lights and line of sight is only a degree or two. Regardless of where the light is, you can only see what is in your line of sight, so if you are below the lights and they project over the next rise, if you can't also see over the next rise, what benefit is there in that?
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
Well, yeah, I'm driving a Disco, so low bumper, very high eyeballs. I haven't exerienced this *yet* in the truck because I haven't done much with it yet. But I have in my cars.
My track Focus has Hella projector lamps for headlights with 100W bulbs. Quite bright. And I get this effect to a certain degree but not too bad.
I used to have another daily driver Focus, with Hella FF1000's mounted at exactly bumper height (so under the factory headlights) and this effect was really quite bad. It almost made it pointless to use the driving lights on anything other than completely flat roads.
Previous to that, I had the FF1000's mounted to my wife's Focus on a mounting bar that positioned them over the line of the headlights, and these were the best I ever had by far.
It would seem to me that having lights on the roof, projecting down in front of the vehicle would be really help throw light down into the holes so you could see what's really in them.
You're right, in that you can't see anything out of your line of sight anyway. But my point is, any time your lights are lower than your eyeballs, you're giving up the potential to see into holes.
Maybe this effect isn't so big on something like a Taco. But on a Disco, your eyeballs are very high indeed. At the very least, you'd want you aux lights mounted *on top* of your bullbar, but that would look just as "bubba" as having them on the roof anyway.
As a sidenote, has anybody ever done anything like putting small projector fogs somewhere... like under the rear view mirros, so light the ground to the side? Or where is the best/most common place for this? Rack again?
Enduro motorcycles who have to run at night are putting small projector lights right onto their suspension forks aimed at the ground right in front of the wheel. In addition to their headlights, and then also two projectors on the sides of their helmets to light up where they're looking. It's all about putting light where you need it even if it looks silly.
Baja bikes just you the big lights on the front, because they need to light up a ways into the distance. By the time any obstacle is close to your wheel, it's too late to do anything about it at speed. In a slow slogging enduro you need light closer in, and you need to put it where you're looking.
My track Focus has Hella projector lamps for headlights with 100W bulbs. Quite bright. And I get this effect to a certain degree but not too bad.
I used to have another daily driver Focus, with Hella FF1000's mounted at exactly bumper height (so under the factory headlights) and this effect was really quite bad. It almost made it pointless to use the driving lights on anything other than completely flat roads.
Previous to that, I had the FF1000's mounted to my wife's Focus on a mounting bar that positioned them over the line of the headlights, and these were the best I ever had by far.
It would seem to me that having lights on the roof, projecting down in front of the vehicle would be really help throw light down into the holes so you could see what's really in them.
You're right, in that you can't see anything out of your line of sight anyway. But my point is, any time your lights are lower than your eyeballs, you're giving up the potential to see into holes.
Maybe this effect isn't so big on something like a Taco. But on a Disco, your eyeballs are very high indeed. At the very least, you'd want you aux lights mounted *on top* of your bullbar, but that would look just as "bubba" as having them on the roof anyway.
As a sidenote, has anybody ever done anything like putting small projector fogs somewhere... like under the rear view mirros, so light the ground to the side? Or where is the best/most common place for this? Rack again?
Enduro motorcycles who have to run at night are putting small projector lights right onto their suspension forks aimed at the ground right in front of the wheel. In addition to their headlights, and then also two projectors on the sides of their helmets to light up where they're looking. It's all about putting light where you need it even if it looks silly.
Baja bikes just you the big lights on the front, because they need to light up a ways into the distance. By the time any obstacle is close to your wheel, it's too late to do anything about it at speed. In a slow slogging enduro you need light closer in, and you need to put it where you're looking.
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R_Lefebvre said:
I ran 5" HID floods on the windshield hinge mounts, pointed down and out to the side (essentially just in front of the rear view mirrors). This provided light to one full side of the vehicle for a distance of something like 25 yards or so depending on what was out there to bounce the light back (reflective range is much farther but useful light was what you would expect from a flood light). With 6" floods on the front bumper and 5" floods on the rear cage, the flood patterns intersected to create a 360 degree bubble of light sufficient for slow to medium speeds (under 40mph give or take). The effect is quite startling if you have never experienced it because you can see so clearly it no longer seems light night time, and you have all the visual information you need to maneuver freely. Only the drivers and high beams reached out to the distance, and then of course, only in the direction of motion where higher speeds demand it.
On one night course in open brush country, our team mates were able to locate our vehicle by the blue bubble of light which they could see from almost a mile away, something like a night time football stadium. We were the only vehicle out there that night with our own stadium lighting, as everyone else had "spotties" which are largely blinding in brush country and don't create the same effect.
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pete.wilson
Adventurer
Hey
I know this sounds cheap for sure, but has anyone used the tractor rubber lights in trapozoid or flood pattern light on a roof rack....how did it work? I want something short distance but that can light both sides of the trail and around blind corners. Other suggestions? I think Hella 500's would be too big.
Pete Wilson
I know this sounds cheap for sure, but has anyone used the tractor rubber lights in trapozoid or flood pattern light on a roof rack....how did it work? I want something short distance but that can light both sides of the trail and around blind corners. Other suggestions? I think Hella 500's would be too big.
Pete Wilson
I have. They work fine, are reasonably durable, and give you usable light for 30 to 50 feet more or less. Downside is they draw power but if you have the reserve and the alternator to drive them, why not try them. They are not brilliant as far as light output being a simple incandescent lamp, but they beat total darkness.pete.wilson said:
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
The amp draw factor is an important consideration if you are looking for all-around lighting.
I'd love to find some LED lighting for the sides and rear. Have to keep my eyes out, I'm sure it's out there.
I'd love to find some LED lighting for the sides and rear. Have to keep my eyes out, I'm sure it's out there.
