winkosmosis
Explorer
But I didn't get stuck because the drivetrain couldn't turn the tires. I had no problem spinning them even with very little throttle. What would low range accomplish?
AWD with low range
- Thread starter Storz
- Start date
But I didn't get stuck because the drivetrain couldn't turn the tires. I had no problem spinning them even with very little throttle. What would low range accomplish?
PajEvo
JDM Journeys
My view:
AWD: when front and rear are driven, but are not "locked", i.e. front or rear can spin faster than the other (Subaru's, my wife's Mitsu Outlander, RAV4s, CRVs, and many others fall into this category).
4WD: when front and rear are driven, and "locked", i.e. front cannot spin faster than rear. By my reckoning, this has nothing to do with low range or not. These are high range options. Again, my 2 cents.
For example The Mitsubishi Montero/Pajero, since 1992 (in North America), has a multi-mode t-case, that has 4hi (awd, 50-50 split, via a viscous coupled center diff), 4hi (locked VC) , and 4low (locked VC)... I use AWD on snowy streets, and 4WD off-pavement (or 4LOW if required). This is a great system, and gives you lots of flexibility for varying conditions.
Of course then there's the whole debate as to whether 4wd without f&r diff lockers is actually 4wd. I won't delve into that here...
If you really start digging, there are options out there with AWD/4WD, and low-range, if that's the way you want to go.
AWD: when front and rear are driven, but are not "locked", i.e. front or rear can spin faster than the other (Subaru's, my wife's Mitsu Outlander, RAV4s, CRVs, and many others fall into this category).
4WD: when front and rear are driven, and "locked", i.e. front cannot spin faster than rear. By my reckoning, this has nothing to do with low range or not. These are high range options. Again, my 2 cents.
For example The Mitsubishi Montero/Pajero, since 1992 (in North America), has a multi-mode t-case, that has 4hi (awd, 50-50 split, via a viscous coupled center diff), 4hi (locked VC) , and 4low (locked VC)... I use AWD on snowy streets, and 4WD off-pavement (or 4LOW if required). This is a great system, and gives you lots of flexibility for varying conditions.
Of course then there's the whole debate as to whether 4wd without f&r diff lockers is actually 4wd. I won't delve into that here...
If you really start digging, there are options out there with AWD/4WD, and low-range, if that's the way you want to go.
Storz
Explorer
For sure, I've been doing a TON of reading on here and have started to put together sort of a mental list of the vehicles that interest me.
Montero and Montero Sport - seem like the value leader for a true world platform vehicle
Trooper - see above comment
Blazer ZR2 - I know its the black sheep, however I had a pickup ZR2 and loved it
FJ80/FZJ80 - tried, true and trusted
4Runner - see FJ comments
Grand Vitara - Seems like one of the only smaller SUVs to have a transfer case
Sorento - same as above, not all that famarliar with them however the owners on this board seem to really like it.
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Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
I agree with this assessment of the AWD/4WD differentiation.
I would also add that all "4wd" vehicles have a transfer case that is separate from the transmission, but not all AWD vehicles do (although some do.)
Many AWD vehicles like the Subaru, the Mitsubishi Lancer EVO, and most (if not all) Crossover/CUV vehicles like the Honda CRV, Pilot, Toyota Rav4, etc, have a simple viscous coupling from the transmission rather than a true T-case. That's why they don't have low range, there's no place to put a low range (the exception here being the Subarus that are sold outside of North America but in those cases, the "low range" is actually in the transmission, not the T-case.)
Some "AWD" vehicles have single-speed transfer cases (I think most of these are "AWD" versions of "4WD" vehicles, like the Mercury Mountaineer, which was just a Ford Explorer with a different, AWD T-case.)
From my observation, it also seems that vehicles with a "north/south" engine configuration (i.e., the crankshaft of the engine is perpendicular to the axles) is more conducive to a true 4wd application because you have the engine, and transmission in a straight line, front-to-back and adding a T-case onto the back of the transmission is relatively simple.
OTOH, small, unibodied CUVs and cars typically have the engines in an "east-west" configuration (crankshaft parallell to the axles) using the Issigonis design with the engine sitting on top of the FWD transaxle. This makes it difficult to add a T-case because where would you put it?
Obviously Subaru is the exception here because even though they are FWD platforms (outside the US), they have a "north-south" engine configuration with the engine sitting on the FWD transaxle.
I was happy to see that my wife's Grand Vitara is more like an SUV than a CUV, with a semi-ladder frame (sort of a cross between a unibody and a ladder-frame design) with a north-south engine configuration and a true T-case with low range (as the GV is a full-time 4wd vehicle, it has a locking center diff so the T-case positions are: 4hi unlocked, 4hi locked, neutral, and 4lo locked.)
njtaco
Explorer
IMO low range accomplishes:
1. Control of wheelspin
2. Less burden on engine and transmission
2a. Which means less overheating
2b. And less wear and tear
3. In vehicles with engine-driven fans the higher engine RPMs aid airflow which helps prevent overheating.
Only #1 helps you get stuck less in that sandy parking lot
but preventing the overheating thing may just get you home...
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Storz
Explorer
IMO low range accomplishes:
1. Control of wheelspin
2. Less burden on engine and transmission
2a. Which means less overheating
2b. And less wear and tear
3. In vehicles with engine-driven fans the higher engine RPMs aid airflow which helps prevent overheating.
Only #1 helps you get stuck less in that sandy parking lot
Excellent points, my very first time in deep sand was with an '00 S10 ZR2 (brand new at the time), it had no problem driving along in 4hi, however after a few miles I noticed the temp gauge climbing, stopped and popped it into 4low and continued on my way, temperature stayed where it should after that.
elmo_4_vt
Explorer
For what it's worth, I used to take my manual suby in the sand all the time, but also only did it when I was with friends, as I frequently got stuck. Most of the time, it was a combination of clearance and power, but sometimes it was also traction. I've never come close to getting stuck in any of my trucks, even though I usually use hi range on the t-case in the sand.
Go with something with a T-case.
But don't get me wrong, I LOVE Suby's and we still have and use one as our primary car. My manual Suby does better in snow less than 6" than any truck I've ever driven. But in the sand, you need more clearance, power, and t-case to do well in my opinion.
Go with something with a T-case.
But don't get me wrong, I LOVE Suby's and we still have and use one as our primary car. My manual Suby does better in snow less than 6" than any truck I've ever driven. But in the sand, you need more clearance, power, and t-case to do well in my opinion.
mporter
Observer
Another vote for the Grand Vitara!
We bought my wife a 08 GV after my son was born as a family car that could make into our favorite camp spot. We looked at all the crossovers, we really liked the Subaru but went with the GV because of price and the low range transfer case. We have been very pleased, it is secure on the road and surprisingly capable off-road. The GV big problem off road is low clearance and no skid plates and an exhaust that is routed under the rear diff, but its a blast in the sand. The pluses: the price(21k otd, xsport), safety features, great warranty and dealer support, ride quality,and fit and finish. The minuses: we average a poor 18-20 mpg in mixed driving, dealerships and their service department are far and few between, little to no aftermarket support. Take one for a test drive and see what you think for yourself.
We bought my wife a 08 GV after my son was born as a family car that could make into our favorite camp spot. We looked at all the crossovers, we really liked the Subaru but went with the GV because of price and the low range transfer case. We have been very pleased, it is secure on the road and surprisingly capable off-road. The GV big problem off road is low clearance and no skid plates and an exhaust that is routed under the rear diff, but its a blast in the sand. The pluses: the price(21k otd, xsport), safety features, great warranty and dealer support, ride quality,and fit and finish. The minuses: we average a poor 18-20 mpg in mixed driving, dealerships and their service department are far and few between, little to no aftermarket support. Take one for a test drive and see what you think for yourself.
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alexrex20
Explorer
obviously nothing. you're much more experienced in your beach driving than me.
winkosmosis
Explorer
Experience has nothing to do with it. I just don't understand how low range can possibly help with being stuck, unless the problem is lack of torque at the wheels.
I don't buy the wheelspin argument. If the wheels are spinning at 1 rev per second, putting it in low range and letting the engine spin faster isn't going to affect that. It might make it worse... like how they told you in driver's ed to use a higher gear on ice
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alexrex20
Explorer
********. you get stuck. i do not.
it's pretty simple.
your scenario is inherently flawed because you don't understand that MORE wheelspin can sometimes be better. indeed, sometimes it is the only way to NOT get stuck (but you don't know anything about that, do you?). whether or not the engine is spinning faster is not the issue. the ability to have wheelspin on demand is what helps in soft sand. don't argue with me that it's easier and quicker to create wheelspin, when in low range.
when you do beach driving to a greater extent than a beach parking lot, come back and talk to us about how you don't need low range.
it's pretty simple.
your scenario is inherently flawed because you don't understand that MORE wheelspin can sometimes be better. indeed, sometimes it is the only way to NOT get stuck (but you don't know anything about that, do you?). whether or not the engine is spinning faster is not the issue. the ability to have wheelspin on demand is what helps in soft sand. don't argue with me that it's easier and quicker to create wheelspin, when in low range.
when you do beach driving to a greater extent than a beach parking lot, come back and talk to us about how you don't need low range.
winkosmosis
Explorer
If I can get enough torque in 4hi to spin my tires and not move without a push, why can't you get the wheelspin you want in 4hi? The only way 4lo gets you more wheelspin is if your engine is struggling to turn the wheels. But it's sand, not gumbo
alexrex20
Explorer
winkosmosis
Explorer
Just because I got stuck in sand once, the only time I drove on sand, doesn't mean it was because I was using 4hi. It was probably because my tires were at 33psi. If I lived by the beach I would experiment, but I'd just like a good explanation of how low range can prevent you from sticking.
winkosmosis
Explorer
Search for "sand" in this book http://books.google.com/books?id=UOdRtUv6RZoC&dq=low+range+sand+driving&source=gbs_navlinks_s