Barn Door for JK factory hardtops

[jscherb]

Im excited over both the barn door and sliding side window projects.

The full Safari Top would be awesome if you decide to license it.

Great work as always.

Thank you very much .

 

[KevinsMap]

Thanks for the input. I've discussed the aesthetics vs. price question at length with the company that's asked me to do this project for them. The company believes that a very affordable, high quality, functional opening window solution will sell well enough to make the project worthwhile. We have discussed what it would take to manufacture an opening window with a totally factory appearance (which I could certainly design for them) and have decided that the cost involved in custom tooling would price the kit out of the reach and interest of the majority of Jeep owners. That's assuming we could get a quality window company to commit to the custom tooling given the very small market potential for a high-priced product, which is doubtful.

By affordable, I'm talking in the neighborhood of $350 per pair of windows - that's for a complete kit including 2 windows and everything needed to do the installation. The Ursa Minor windows you linked to cost $350 each, so they're twice the cost of what I'm working on.

So far this company's market research indicates enough positive interest in the design and price point to go the the next step, which is working with a quality window company to get first prototypes made for testing. They have had a few people say they wouldn't be interested unless the aesthetics of the window are such that the installation looks like it came from the factory, but far more people have said they like the price and the functionality and are looking forward to being able to purchase the kit. Also, most of the interest has been in slider windows, but the base design work that's being done for this project is applicable to swing-up windows, gull-wing cargo hatches, etc., so it may be that other types of windows would also come out of the project.

Whether or not the company decides to take the product into production I can't say for sure yet. The next step is getting prototypes made, testing them, and seeing what the reaction is.

A very reasonable analysis.

With your experience, I am certain you know what the flaw is, in their market research? People always say they will buy something, if it were only cheap enough; then they don't. Been there. Just as in the slider window popularity, over what (I agree) is your more useful gullwing or table-hatch designs. Most people in the USofA know what a slider is, so they want one, and they have never even heard of a South African Safari Bar (built into a table-hatch window)! What would they think of that ? ;-) ?

Depends on your market; or in that timeless quote from the Music Man, "...but you gotta know the territory!"

 

[KevinsMap]

 

[jscherb]

I finished sewing the prototype soft barn door over a month ago, but because of travel and other commitments haven't had the time to try it on the Jeep until today.

It fits and closes very well, and pushes firmly on the seal all the way around.

Zipped up:

The reason the "glass" is a little wavy is that it's a $3 piece of clear vinyl from the Walmart fabric department. When I sew a final cover in Spice I'll use Jeep factory soft top window material so it'll be nice and flat. Since this was a prototype to serve for making a pattern and testing the overall fit, there wasn't any need to spend $ on the window material. The camo material isn't as stiff as the soft top fabric I'll use for the final version either.

Rolled down:

View from the inside with it rolled down:

And with 4 wing nuts, it removes completely in less than a minute.

So now having tested it on the Jeep, I can use the patterns to make a final one out of factory soft top fabric and vinyl window material.

 

[Comanche Scott]

Been following the sliding window thread on the other forum as well.
At that price point, and the ability to go back to stock windows at resale, it's a no-brainer here.
Besides Super Mutt promises to stop chasing cats if we get them. That alone is worth the price of admission.

Rear soft barn door came out great. :beer:

 

[jscherb]

Been following the sliding window thread on the other forum as well.
At that price point, and the ability to go back to stock windows at resale, it's a no-brainer here.
Besides Super Mutt promises to stop chasing cats if we get them. That alone is worth the price of admission.

Rear soft barn door came out great. :beer:

Why would you want to go back to the stock windows at resale time? Because buyers potentially wouldn't want sliders? Or because you'd want to keep the sliders for your next Jeep?

The prototype soft barn door has a few wrinkles in it, mostly due to the fabric I used for the prototype, but functionally it meets the design goals 100%, I'm very happy with it. Now I have to decide if I'm going to make one final skin for it or two. If I only do one, it would be Spice, to match the color I'm painting the Safari Cab. But maybe I'll do a second skin in factory soft top black so it looks nice with a factory hardtop as well.

 

[Comanche Scott]

Why would you want to go back to the stock windows at resale time? Because buyers potentially wouldn't want sliders? Or because you'd want to keep the sliders for your next Jeep?

The prototype soft barn door has a few wrinkles in it, mostly due to the fabric I used for the prototype, but functionally it meets the design goals 100%, I'm very happy with it. Now I have to decide if I'm going to make one final skin for it or two. If I only do one, it would be Spice, to match the color I'm painting the Safari Cab. But maybe I'll do a second skin in factory soft top black so it looks nice with a factory hardtop as well.

I've learned over the years that stepping outside the norm reduces the volume of potential buyers. Which in turn can be detrimental to the sales price.

Great idea to make one in black as well, to match the factory top. For as little room as it takes to store it really opens up the options! :beer:

 

[TheDriver]

Access Hatches

Been following the other JK hatch/window thread as well as many older ones for quite awhile. For me, access hatches would be more useful than sliders given that I recently bought a pair of these: https://www.nakatanenga.de/jeepers-corner/jeep-wrangler-jk/969/lueftungsbleche-seitenfenster-hinten (they are awesome BTW). As I've posted in other threads - the only USA made hatches that I could find are Toyota specific - I like the PALS grid option: http://www.yodateq.com/GULL-WINGS_c_30.html If you do make hatch versions I'd suggest aluminum with high end locks and bomber seals .

Love your work - can't wait to see what you come up with!

Chris

 

[jscherb]

Been following the other JK hatch/window thread as well as many older ones for quite awhile. For me, access hatches would be more useful than sliders given that I recently bought a pair of these: https://www.nakatanenga.de/jeepers-corner/jeep-wrangler-jk/969/lueftungsbleche-seitenfenster-hinten (they are awesome BTW). As I've posted in other threads - the only USA made hatches that I could find are Toyota specific - I like the PALS grid option: http://www.yodateq.com/GULL-WINGS_c_30.html If you do make hatch versions I'd suggest aluminum with high end locks and bomber seals .

Love your work - can't wait to see what you come up with!

Chris

Chris,

Why do you suggest aluminum rather than RV-style hatches? The Toyota products you linked to cost over $500 per side - RV-style hatches could be done to retail for around $150 per side and they'd be just as functional, seal just as well and they would lock securely.

A Molle/PALS grid would't be a problem, it could even be an add-on option which I'd imagine could retail for well under $100 per side, here are a couple of quick concept images...

And what about inside the Jeep? Unlike the Toyota or the Defender, the JKU has a big roll bar going right through the window area. Would the hatches alone work out ok, or would something like these cargo compartments I mocked up be a good idea in the Jeep? They could be optional so if someone wanted only the hatches they wouldn't need to pay for the compartments. They'd be fairly easy to do in fiberglass, and could have a PALS grid in them as well.

This hatch hasn't been painted yet (nor has the hardtop), but RV hatches would also be easy to paint, so they color-matched to the hardtop.

Once the first prototype slider window frame is complete and tested the window company will have all the data necessary to bend any type of frame, so making RV-style sliders would be pretty simple to do if it looks like there would be demand for them.

 

[TheDriver]

You make a lot of good points! I was thinking of aluminum for a couple of reasons. The first is because I'm more comfortable modifying (cutting holes) in it than in fiberglass and I would use the hatches as a way to mount fittings that I didn't want to permanently alter the hardtop shell with. Specifically, I'm looking to fit an Espar D2 somewhere in the back (not on the floor) and I thought mounting the hot exhaust through aluminum might be better than plastic/fiberglass. I may end up using a stainless steel marine thru-hull fitting in which case the material won't be exposed to as much heat. The second reason is that it seems like aluminum (heavy gauge) could be made more secure against a break in attempt. I'm picturing the difference between the RV hatches I've seen and the aluminum tool compartments on the fire trucks I've worked out of. One you would need real tools to open and the other you could get into with a decent pocket knife. I've also only ever seen what look like cheap low end locks/latches on RV hatches. It would be awesome if the hatches could use the same double bitted locks that Tuffy uses - then they could be keyed-alike with the glove compartment and under seat drawer or whatever other secure storage people have put in. For me price is the least important factor but I can see how it might be critical to get these moving via places like Quadratec and 4 Wheel Parts - I'd just caution against going cheap on the hinges / latches / locks / seals just to hit a price point since they will make a big difference over the long term.

I would be very interested in the interior cargo compartment option. I like the idea of outside access to that space since it is hard to get to when I've got the rear deck full of camping gear. As a spot for kitchen stuff or recovery gear I think it would be great - the depth in your mock-up looks very usable! I'd say maximize the size of the compartment front-to-back and up to the interior side of the roll bar. I have the Tuffy JK rear deck in there now and find that when I pull everything out to use the rear for hauling I only need it clear in a vertical plane that begins where the wheel well meets the floor. This gives full height from the floor to the horizontal roll bar and allows anything in that side space to stay in place. Right now that side space is just kind of stuffed with gear - I'd much prefer it to be organized and available from the outside.

Thanks again for all the time you've put into this!

Chris

 

[SportsmanJake]

I am a big fan of your work!

Quick question: Is the JKU Safari roof the same height as the LJ Safari Roof?

 

[jscherb]

I am a big fan of your work!

Quick question: Is the JKU Safari roof the same height as the LJ Safari Roof?

Thanks!

The LJ Safari Cab roof panel measures 6" from the bottom of the drip rail to the top of the roof. The same measurement on the JK Safari Cab roof panel is 4". Both roof panels are in this first photo. Why do you ask?

BTW, the LJ has a 2" lift and 32" tires (about 1" taller than the stock 30x9.50 tires). Including the Safari Cab, it's taller than my stock JKU Sahara...

These photos also show how I remove/install the roof panels by myself. They're not very heavy, but they're pretty awkward for one person. To install the Safari Cab, I put the sides/ends on the Jeep, drive under the roof, and set the roof down on top. Removal is the reverse of installation. It's an easy one-person job.

 

[SportsmanJake]

I asked because I thought the dimensions of the LJ safari roof were spot on in relation to the length and width of the vehicle.

I would have assumed the JK Safari roof would have taller(6"+) than the LJ Safari roof since the JK is much wider.

 

[jscherb]

I asked because I thought the dimensions of the LJ safari roof were spot on in relation to the length and width of the vehicle.

I would have assumed the JK Safari roof would have taller(6"+) than the LJ Safari roof since the JK is much wider.

It is true that the JK is wider at the tub, but the hardtop sides slope in more than on the LJ, so measured at the back of the roof, both are the same width - 56.5" (measured at the outside edges of the drip rail). The JK roof bulges out a bit towards the middle of the roof while the sides of the LJ roof are straight, so the JK Safari Cab roof at its widest point is slightly wider than the LJ roof, but at the back they're exactly the same width and at the windshield the JK roof is only 1/2" wider than the LJ roof, so they're very close in size. The JKU roof is about 6" longer than the LJ roof though, they're the most different in that dimension.

The reason I made the JK roof a bit lower was for styling, given the more curved lines of the JK and how flat the factory roof is I thought a slightly lower roof with a more rounded shape would look right on the JK vs. the taller and somewhat more angular roof on the JK. Here's a pair of photos for comparison:

Of course if I change my mind about the shape and proportions of the JK Safari Cab roof, since it's modular I can always make a new roof with a different height/shape and it'll bolt right up to the rest of the JK Safari Cab parts .

 

[jscherb]

About two weeks ago I posted this:

Here's a look at the window frame template I plan to send over to the window manufacturer. I've made up the template using the minimum radius available in their standard window frames to keep these windows very affordable.

Here it is edited to be black and to give a better idea of what the corners might look like when the frame is installed:

For comparison, here's a factory glass with the corners that were cut off the template after tracing the glass, this shows the difference between the factory glass and the slider window frame.

Today I got an email from the window company that they had made up a test frame to match the specs and template I sent them, and that it shipped today. I should have it in a few days and can do a test install.