Battery issue or CTEK charger issue?

[Ballbearing]

I’ve tried to research this online and have failed. Also, I haven’t contacted either manufacturer yet because I don’t know much about batteries and even less about chargers. In addition, I’ve not had good luck with manufacturers standard replies in the past. Anyway, I submit to you the following :

The chargers are:

1) CTEK MUS 4.3 model 1065 at least 6-10 years old.

2) DieHard fully automatic battery charger and engine starter model 200.71222

I have attempted to charge 3 different batteries, 2 of which were/are brand new.

The diehard charged all of them and showed a full charge. However, when I removed the diehard and attached the CTEK it stuck at stage 1 and then finally resulted in an error. This is the case with my new Duracell 27m FLA battery from Batteries Plus.

I would return the battery to them for testing but I’m not sure if it’s my equipment; and the store is quite a distance from me.

After a long 2 amp charge on the diehard the battery shows full and, after resting for several hours, the voltmeter shows 13.09 volts. I then attach the CTEK and get the error after it stays stuck on stage 1 for hours.

I was hoping to keep the battery on the CTEK when not in use but that doesn’t work. It seems to me that the CTEK is faulty, but I never had any problems with my motorcycle which I sold 2 years ago.

Sorry for the long post and thanks for any insights.



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[ConcordCarlos]

Sounds like the CTEK is faulty. What is the voltage of the battery with the CTEK connected after an hour , and then when disconnected from the battery?

 

[67cj5]

The trouble with smart chargers is you can not really check the voltage accurately because depending which STEP it is doing the Voltage changes, The best thing to do is hook up a multi meter and then run a 55w bulb from the battery and then hook up the CTek and see what happens leaving the multi meter hooked up with the MIN /MAX feature turned on, The voltage should star off around 13v and slowly build up until they get up to around 14.5 or 14.6v and if it goes in to equalization mode then it might climb up to 15.6v when it Pulses,

 

[Ballbearing]

Sounds like the CTEK is faulty. What is the voltage of the battery with the CTEK connected after an hour , and then when disconnected from the battery?

The voltage never changes. It just slowly declines, I assume from natural bleed off? The only time the voltage rises is when the DieHard is hooked up and charging, which has never been at the same time as the CTEK.

The trouble with smart chargers is you can not really check the voltage accurately because depending which STEP it is doing the Voltage changes, The best thing to do is hook up a multi meter and then run a 55w bulb from the battery and then hook up the CTek and see what happens leaving the multi meter hooked up with the MIN /MAX feature turned on, The voltage should star off around 13v and slowly build up until they get up to around 14.5 or 14.6v and if it goes in to equalization mode then it might climb up to 15.6v when it Pulses,

Are you referring to a 55w incandescent bulb? If so, I don't have any of those in the house apparently. I do, however, have some small 20w bulbs. I hooked that up and there is no light and no heat coming from the bulb so I probably got that wrong. Also, I didn't notice any voltage drop either except for maybe 0.01 volts. (my meter is a cheap Harbor Freight multimeter that can be partially seen in the battery pic above) I still did the test that you described and there was no change at all in voltage with the CTEK and meter hooked up.

Sounds like maybe I need a new smart charger?

Thanks for the help thus far.

 

[luthj]

We need to know what voltage the battery is at rest. Then attach the Ctek unit. What voltage does it rise to? Check it every 10 minutes for an hour. That will tell us whats up.

 

[67cj5]

The voltage never changes. It just slowly declines, I assume from natural bleed off? The only time the voltage rises is when the DieHard is hooked up and charging, which has never been at the same time as the CTEK.



Are you referring to a 55w incandescent bulb? If so, I don't have any of those in the house apparently. I do, however, have some small 20w bulbs. I hooked that up and there is no light and no heat coming from the bulb so I probably got that wrong. Also, I didn't notice any voltage drop either except for maybe 0.01 volts. (my meter is a cheap Harbor Freight multimeter that can be partially seen in the battery pic above) I still did the test that you described and there was no change at all in voltage with the CTEK and meter hooked up.

Sounds like maybe I need a new smart charger?

Thanks for the help thus far.

The trouble with smart chargers is they only charge the way they have been programmed to and the User has no say in charge rates etc and they are so slow, The only real reason to use/need one is if you want to leave a battery on charge for ever or you have a Lithium type battery etc, I made the mistake and bought three of them from 3.5Ah and 15Ah and a 26Ah at first I was impressed by them until I realized what was going on and how they operate, They are Great Chargers but Not really suitable for my needs. Ctek and Noco are very good but you just need to be sure what your expectations are as with all things when it comes to our vehicles.

Also I must add that That charger is a 4.3 Amp model and it is going to take it at leased 2 days to charge that battery, I have a Noco 3.5 and It will take up to 3 Days to charge a 115Ah FLA DC battery, It's worse than getting Teeth Pulled.

Also what country are you in because if you are in the UK I can loan you one of my Chargers.

 

[Ballbearing]

We need to know what voltage the battery is at rest. Then attach the Ctek unit. What voltage does it rise to? Check it every 10 minutes for an hour. That will tell us whats up.

The battery at rest currently is 12.99 volts. This is after 12 hours or more since the last charge.

The voltage never rises at all with the CTEK attached. It stays stuck at “stage 1” until it finally errors out.


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[luthj]

Okay. I would double check the fuses and wiring on the Ctek unit (does it have an in-line fuse?) The AC side connector is good as well?

If all that checks out, sounds like its bit the dust.

 

[Ballbearing]

The trouble with smart chargers is they only charge the way they have been programmed to and the User has no say in charge rates etc and they are so slow, The only real reason to use/need one is if you want to leave a battery on charge for ever or you have a Lithium type battery etc, I made the mistake and bought three of them from 3.5Ah and 15Ah and a 26Ah at first I was impressed by them until I realized what was going on and how they operate, They are Great Chargers but Not really suitable for my needs. Ctek and Noco are very good but you just need to be sure what your expectations are as with all things when it comes to our vehicles.

Also I must add that That charger is a 4.3 Amp model and it is going to take it at leased 2 days to charge that battery, I have a Noco 3.5 and It will take up to 3 Days to charge a 115Ah FLA DC battery, It's worse than getting Teeth Pulled.

Also what country are you in because if you are in the UK I can loan you one of my Chargers.

Thanks for the offer, but I’m in the USA.

I forgot to state my intended use of the battery:

1) as a portable camping battery to supply 12 volt charging for phones, cameras, and possibly eventual refrigerator use.

2) occasionally as a trolling motor battery.

When not performing these duties I was just going to leave it hooked up to prevent complete discharge.

Considering this, maybe I should just charge the battery with the DieHard and forget about the smart charger altogether?

It still seems that my CTEK is faulty considering the lack of increased voltage and error lamp after extended “charging”.

**also, forgot to state that this will be used as a power supply for a portable HAM radio station.

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[DaveInDenver]

The diehard charged all of them and showed a full charge. However, when I removed the diehard and attached the CTEK it stuck at stage 1 and then finally resulted in an error.

How quickly after taking the battery off the Diehard did you connect it to the CTEK?

I would return the battery to them for testing but I’m not sure if it’s my equipment; and the store is quite a distance from me.

I doubt you have 3 bad batteries.

After a long 2 amp charge on the diehard the battery shows full and, after resting for several hours, the voltmeter shows 13.09 volts. I then attach the CTEK and get the error after it stays stuck on stage 1 for hours.

I was hoping to keep the battery on the CTEK when not in use but that doesn’t work. It seems to me that the CTEK is faulty, but I never had any problems with my motorcycle which I sold 2 years ago.

I don't think the CTEK is faulty necessarily. You put it on a fully (or substantially) charged battery and it doesn't know what to do since nothing needs to be done. Discharge the battery with the light bulb or just start with a battery that isn't already charged. Its logic may not step over a bulk or absorption correctly and know to go straight to float.

Doesn't have to be a deep discharge, but with it at least discharged a bit the CTEK should understand what to do. If it doesn't then it may be faulty.

The Diehard charger is just a bulk dumb charger. It's what you'd want to start with after a deep discharge but probably not something you'd need for routine maintenance and I wouldn't let a battery sit on it indefinitely. As it runs and the battery begins to top off does it start pulsing or taper the voltage?

 

[Ballbearing]

Okay. I would double check the fuses and wiring on the Ctek unit (does it have an in-line fuse?) The AC side connector is good as well?

If all that checks out, sounds like its bit the dust.

No inline fuse that I can see and all the connectors and wiring seem fine.




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[67cj5]

Thanks for the offer, but I’m in the USA.

I forgot to state my intended use of the battery:

1) as a portable camping battery to supply 12 volt charging for phones, cameras, and possibly eventual refrigerator use.

2) occasionally as a trolling motor battery.

When not performing these duties I was just going to leave it hooked up to prevent complete discharge.

Considering this, maybe I should just charge the battery with the DieHard and forget about the smart charger altogether?

It still seems that my CTEK is faulty considering the lack of increased voltage and error lamp after extended “charging”.


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One thing about smart chargers is "Before" You go throwing it away is that if you charge a battery with another Charger or the battery is fully charged then a Smart Charger will turn on and start up and then shoot through it's stages and turn it's self in to sleep mode, So the Only way you can check your smart charger is working ok is to draw off some of the Voltage from the battery using a Lamp or car fridge or something that will knock down the peak voltage and then hook up the smart charger and see if it then starts to charge the battery, But you need to use some of the batteries power first or the charger will see it as fully charged and either switch off or stay in standby mode, Ok.

 

[DaveInDenver]

One thing about smart charger "Before" You go throwing it away is that if you charge a battery with another Charger or the battery is fully charged then a Smart Charger will turn on and start up and then shoot through it's stages and turn it's self in to sleep mode

I used to have a Minn Kota charger that did this. It is a good charger but the logic was bulk-absorb-float then wait and test. After 24 hours at float it would turn off and look for the next discharge cycle. It was intended to be left connected to the battery all the time on board a boat and only turn back on when the battery voltage dipped not as a long term maintenance trickle charger. It would turn back on eventually if you did leave it as self discharge took the battery down, but that might take weeks.

The terms dumb and smart here are relative. The dumb charger isn't necessarily that much less smart than many smart chargers. It just won't follow a 3 or 4 step profile. It just does what it does and it probably doesn't try any pre-charge condition assessment. It's actually what you want the first bulk step to be after a deep discharge, which might leave a battery at a fairly low voltage that could look like a fault to a smart charger when it's probably not and all that's needed is a brute force kick start. Some large capacity smart chargers do take a pre-start check and if your battery is below a low voltage threshold will go full current regardless of voltage for some period and check again to see if the profile can run.

 

[67cj5]

I used to have a Minn Kota charger that did this. It is a good charger but the logic was bulk-absorb-float then wait and test. After 24 hours at float it would turn off and look for the next discharge cycle. It was intended to be left connected to the battery all the time on board a boat and only turn back on when the battery voltage dipped not as a long term maintenance trickle charger. It would turn back on eventually if you did leave it as self discharge took the battery down, but that might take weeks.

Yeah Dave, These smart charger are all well and good but if a person is use to using the older type linier chargers then every thing goes Pear shaped, They claimed that the Noco chargers are Twice as fast as the older type workshop chargers Well that's not true, That might be the case on an AGM battery but when it comes to "BIG" FLA DC batteries the old Linier type chargers will Smoke em, When it comes to FLA/LA Batteries nothing beats the old fashion type chargers.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Yeah Dave, These smart charger are all well and good but if a person is use to using the older type linier chargers then every thing goes Pear shaped, They claimed that the Noco chargers are Twice as fast as the older type workshop chargers Well that's not true, That might be the case on an AGM battery but when it comes to "BIG" FLA DC batteries the old Linier type chargers will Smoke em, When it comes to FLA/LA Batteries nothing beats the old fashion type chargers.

AGM batteries can tolerate the approach that those older type chargers do but it has to be done respecting the manufacturer's suggestion for just how hard you hit them and the temperature has to be watched. If you overheat and start to vent you can't fix it by rehydrating the electrolyte like with flooded. That's a basic problem with AGM is people treat them too gently sometimes. They are finicky, you can't be too harsh either. There's a smaller window of ideal for an AGM to prevent it losing capacity so you really need to tailor the charging to your specific brand and model battery to get a long life and there's a lot of combinations in mass production of cars, batteries and chargers to consider.