Beretta PX4 Storm, Smith & Wesson BodyGuards

[Corey]

So I am watching a few gun shows this morning on Spike, and I see ads for a new gun called the PX4 Storm by Beretta.

The Storm is offered in different calibers and either full size or compact.
If I got a full size, I would probably go for the .45 caliber.
I shot my friends 45 a few years back, and I liked them.

I have been meaning to get my concealed weapons permit before to long, but I do not necessarily need a small gun to conceal.

I like the bigger hand guns a little more than the smaller types, but I have been eying the new Smith & Wesson Bodyguards too.
BodyGuard 380

BodyGuard 38

Cool thing about these two above are they have built in lasers.

The smaller guns are cool, but not much room on them if you want to add a light or a better laser such as the Surefire XD400 I have on my AR15 which is in this thread.

I have not owned a hand gun in several years, so I would be getting back into new territory here, and not sure which is the best way to go.
I would mainly be using the gun for:
1. Home defense
2. Camping, defense deterrent against back country two legged threats.
3. Indoor range shooting to stay in practice.

Which gun makes more sense?
The bigger full size gun like the Beretta, or a smaller one like the BodyGuard line?

 

[zukrider]

well i would also like to add in the S&W M&P as a full size contender. the storm and the m&p are my two being decided on as well. i am glad i saw this thread, as i had not heard of the bodyguard, and that 380 is sexy!
things to consider are since you dont "need" a concealed size, one will typically have greater control with the bigger gun.

another point to add is what you intend the gun to accomplish. my rule is, dont aim unless you intend to shoot, dont shoot unless you intend to kill. a 9mm will hurt, and kill if well aimed. a .38 or .40 will kill, and with moderate aim just stop in general. the .45 however, will stop, one shot. if aimed at a major joint, it will remove the attached appendage. things to think about!

i love the beretta, but am leaning towards the m&p for its better backed rep thus far. pretty sure you cant go wrong with either one.

joe

 

[Hill Bill E.]

As far as a carry gun, I have both a 1911 .45ACP full size, and an Taurus Mellenium PT140 Pro.

The 1911 is heavy, real heavy when carrying all day. It also 'imprints' a lot.
(the proper holster mitagates these somewhat)

Not a great gun for concealment unless it's cool enough to wear a flannel shirt, jacket, etc.

I do carry it on occasion, but usually I carry the .40. It's light (polymer frame), conceals well, and holds 10+ 1 rounds.


For home defense, a bigger gun is nice, especially if it has laser grips.

The lights and rail lsers are nice, but not practical on a carry gun.

The wife and I are looking at a Taurus Judge w/6.5 barrel.

These are nice becuase they can shoot either .45 Colt or .410 shotshell.

And they now make a special 'Home Defense' shotshell with 3 discs, and 3 large BB's (.36 cal IIRC)

They also make the Judge with shorter barrels.:elkgrin:


Biggest thing, get one that fits your hand. Some of the smaller ones, especially the semi auto's, have small grips.

My .40 has a 'finger extension' on the magazine, so I get at least 3 fingers on the grip.

Some are so small, I only get 2 fingers on, and when one is my trigger finger, I don't have good control of the weapon.

 

[Corey]

Thanks Joe for the insight.
I have not looked at the M&P line yet except for their 22 caliber AR15 style rifles which I intend on picking up someday.
Far cheaper to shoot than my AR15 for targets.

Yes, if I ever had to use a handgun in a situation to protect myself, it would be to put down.
I know that sounds bad to the ones who disapprove of owning guns or providing you or your family protection against the bad guys, but I am friends with quite a few police officers both active and retired that will tell you that you aim to kill, not to injure in a situation where your life is in danger.

I have not priced out yet the Beretta, but will be looking for prices later.
Now I have to Google the M&P to look at.

 

[Corey]

Thanks Bill.
Back in the early 90s I had a 9 mm Taurus (copy of a Beretta) for home defense and target shooting in the mountains.

It was a bit on the heavy side.
Had a Miami Vice holder with it that held three magazine, and the gun upside down.

On that 380 S&W, I am not sure what size that is, if it is as big as a 38 or smaller.
Not up to much on anything other than 9 mm and 45 for handguns.

 

[bcrez]

I would go with the M&P. All preference aside (if you dont like its feel then dont get it) It is being adopted by more police units every day. I hear it is very reliable, easy to maintain, and good looking to boot. As someone who has shot it in 9mm and .40 cal I can say it shoots really nice. Also, I believe it comes in a compact version. Some other pistols you might consider is a Sig P220, HK USP Compact.

Personally I wouldnt pack a .380 over a 9mm or a .40cal But with proper hollow points most anything is lethal with a good shot. a 45 ACP is ideal for stopping a man, but it is bulky and expensive... Practice makes perfect so for me, with ammo prices where they are 9mm is what I turn to. I dont like the PX4. It has a comfortable grip, but it just feels a little dinky to me.

I carry a Sig P226 9mm and sometimes a 1911- .45 ACP. I like full sized. I am small too, and I still find them manageable with a good holster. I keep a separate holder that I can fasten to the waist strap on my backpack when I go into the backcountry.

 

[Corey]

Thanks, I see they make quite a few different M&P models, and some can be had as a kit with a case.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...64151_757781_757781_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...4_750001_750051_764151_-1_757781_757781_image

Sounds like a 40 is a lot easier to carry weight wise over a 45?
That 40 kit above looks very tempting.

 

[1911]

Corey, I have a S&W 340PD, a similar (shrouded hammer .357/.38 snubbie) predecessor model to the "Bodyguard 38" strictly for a back-up gun. Yes it is very small and very lightweight, but with a barrel less than 2" long, a laser sight is a joke IMO. This is a belly gun, for the last extreme, and only at point-blank range at that. I would NOT recommend any of the tiny snubbies as a primary carry weapon; you'd be much better off with any of your other choices.

 

[Corey]

Thanks, I think something with more firepower would be better too.
I am kind of liking that M&P 40.
Enough room up front to hang a Surefire X400 on it too.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2qkQ_F08fI"]YouTube - smith & wesson M&P .40S&W review and shoot[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ0MWxa3GAs"]YouTube - Smith & Wesson M&P .40[/ame]

 

[targa88]

Never been a fan of the plastic fantastics.....
That being said the M&P9- works very well. Smooth and easy to sight.
Adjustable back strap.
Enjoyed using it.

The Bodyguard 380 has an interesting integrated laser sight.

 

[FreeManDan]

I didn't like the PX4 I shot, the safety was harder than heck to turn off, as it is even more low profile than is necessary. It's a double stack after all, I can't conceal a double stack unless it involves bulky fowl weather clothing. I carry a kel-tec pf9 nearly all the time, the trigger is long but crisp for something so inexpensive (no safety after all). My brother has a Taurus slim in 9mm, it has a slightly longer slide and a thumb safety, and short crisp trigger. I would give thumbs up to ether pistol, advantage to that 380 wouldn't be hard to cary in the pocket. I hardly ever carry any other way (with the exception of when I mountain bike) this does kinda limit my clothing options, I got to have good pockets. For safety I have a de santis pocket holster for it, but sometimes I don't use it based on my clothing choices. AND like I said....I cary on the trails I ride.
Can you spot where I have my pistol on my person? HINT, the left side of my body.

I really tried to find more or better pics, but I don't let people see that side of me without my arms in the way. You see its a holster shirt, under the arm and accessed through the open zipper in the cycling jersey, hides it well but up close you might see something not natural. One shirt type is from concealmentT.com (cotton) and the other type is 5.11 tactical (terrible polyester). I gave one of them to a friend I ride with, and he conceals a ruger 380 better than I would with the PF9, you can't even spot it up close.
For me I carry all 9mm for the logistics and simplicity, I had a USP compact in .357 sig, but gave it to my brother who has fewer pistols than me....and the 9 is just fine. http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php?cPath=21_37&osCsid=578idnsc4t4i5ft3hu89bsfqn2

 

[Corey]

Good concealment Dan.

Going over to my friends later that I bought my AR15 from.
He has a Glock 21SF in a 45 format he wants to show me.
http://www.glockworld.com/item/65721_Glock_Hand_Guns_Pistols_Glock_P92150201_Model_21S.aspx

I do not see a picatinny rail on the bottom of that model though.

I still want a 40, but I am going to look and see how it feels since I have never held a Glock before.

It might come down to a Glock 40 or that M&P 40, I really like the latter.

He is looking forward too to seeing the AR15 he sold to me how it has transformed over the past 30 days.
He might get the itch to modify his.

He has so many guns I can not keep count.
He offered to sell me this 38 special (I think that is what it was) a few years back for $500.
He has a matched pair of these I believe.
But I am not wanting a revolver at this time.

 

[Corey]

I was wrong, that is a 44 special I posted above.

Just got back, and I think I am sold on his 21SF Gen III 45 Glock.
He had an identical one in 9mm, but I like the 45 better, not much heavier or bigger.

I asked about recoil, and he seems to think there is less kick with the 45 than there would be for a 40.

He also said to stick with the Gen III model as they have been having problems with the newer Gen IV, and also those have the mag release on both sides, that is giving some trouble too.

He never use to be a Glock guy and actually made fun of them like others do that have never owned or shot one.
But with most of your police departments picking the Glocks and the S&W M&Ps, you can not go wrong with either model.

He is into this stuff big time and has quite the collection.
I looked at a regular 45 (1911 style) and I prefer the Glock, plus it can be had for $500 or so with hard case and two mags.

I did not know that Glocks do not have a safety on them, it is built into the trigger, that it will not fire unless the trigger is squeezed, so no worries of it going off if dropped.

I messed around with both the 9 mm and the 45, I like them.
They have the white sites on them, and I guess it would be easy to change over to the green glowing ones that many use.

Going to call my local PD when they open up tomorrow (last day of our holiday break from work) and see if I can get my permit.
Once that goes through, I can speed up the process of getting something.

He uses that local indoor range too by us, so it will be fun to go there and shoot.
No way am I going to pay the $$$ they want to shoot my AR15 in there, so having a handgun to shoot indoors will be fun.

He gets his ammo at Walmart for a good deal on the value pack of 100 rounds in a 45 ball for around $32 or so.

 

[robert]

My two cents worth:

Decide what you want the gun for, find a size that works for you, find a caliber in that size, find a gun in the caliber that fits your hand well and that you're comfortable with, get a quality holster and lots of practice ammo and go to the range.


I've got a Glock 21SF and I really don't like it- too big, too heavy, not easily concealable, wrong grip angle, etc. For general CCW I prefer a lightweight Commander sized 1911- lightweight 1911s use an alloy frame for weight reduction and traditionally a 4.25" barrel (Kimber and a couple of others use a 4" barrel). Standard Government model is 5". Springfield and a few others make them in a railed version too but they're harder to find (it's next on my list of guns to get). I grew up shooting them, they fit my hand well, they point naturally to me, and I'm comfortable with them. Being flat they conceal especially well; even more so if you carry inside the waist band. Even skinny people can often conceal them well with a proper holster.

I like .45s but they WILL NOT rip an arm off- they may take off a finger or something, but that's about it. They do put decent sized holes in things though (yes, I've seen more than one person with a hole punched in them and from various calibers- no, I'm by no means and expert nor do I claim to be). As they say, a 9mm may expand, but a .45 won't shrink- there's some truth to that but I still use quality hollow point bullets in whatever I'm carrying. I prefer Speer Gold Dots as they receive consistently good ratings and they are reliable in my guns, but there are some other good rounds out there including the Winchester Rangers. You'll need to figure out what your particular gun likes and shoots best.

For the house I use a Glock 19 with a Streamilight TLR1 mounted on it. I also carry the 19 sometimes- while I prefer a .45, I'm not adverse to the 9mm by any stretch, particularly with good ammo. It's about the perfect sized 9mm (other than that grip angle); Glock also makes .40s in that frame size. The .45 and 10mm Glocks use a larger frame. Glocks are a love/hate thing for me. I've learned to like them and I love them for their reliability and simplicity. I hate their grip angle and aesthetically they're all but offensive. They're blocky and I don't think they conceal as well as some other guns, but something like a Comptac Minotaur does a pretty good job. If my 1911 or one of my Sigs had a rail I'd use them instead but they don't.

I personally do not like the .40. I've tried to like it, but I just don't. No matter what type of gun, it seems to have more muzzle flip than the 9mm (makes sense since it's a hotter load) while the .45 is more of a "push" to me. Either way I find it harder to get fast follow up shots with the .40. I'm by no means recoil sensitive, I just don't like the way it shoots. If you're happy with the .40 then by all means it's not a bad cartridge, I just don't like it.

I like the Springfield Armory XD series. They feel much better in the hand than Glocks which makes sense when you realize they approximated the grip angle of the 1911. They also rounded them off better. There are fewer options for them though.

I don't like S&W automatics- again, personal preference. Let me rephrase that, I don't like most S&W autos. I have one of their 1911s (an ES model) and it's a very nice gun for the money. It's been dead nuts reliable and it's as accurate as most other 1911s I've shot; more so than many out the box. Their M&P series are good guns; I just like the simplicity of the Glock and the aftermarket support. I'm sure I'm biased against them based on their earlier autos too. I need to get over that I suppose but haven't really had a need to.

I like Sigs. The Sig 250 is supposedly a POS. I love the way they feel and they are generally very accurate. I like most of them I've ever shot and would love to have a P228 some day. I've shot IDPA with a stock P220 and a stock P226 before and done well. They are a bit bulky though. Sigs are expensive as are the magazines for them.

I like most Berettas but they are generally larger than I like. I have a 92 with a great trigger on it and it's very accurate but it's overly large for a 9mm in my opinion. It's way too large for CCW. I have no personal experience with the model you posted but it should be a good gun.

I'm not a fan of Walthers although supposed they make a good gun these days. I haven't shot most of their newer offerings but I do like the PPK/s if for no other reason than I can walk around saying “Bond, James Bond”. With their fixed barrels they tend to be very accurate, limited more by their small sights. .380 is considered marginal for self defense these days even though .25s, .32s and .380s were the standard semiautos in Europe and America for years.

I don't like most Ruger centerfire autos- overly big and heavy. I love the Ruger LCP- it's everything a .380 pocket gun should be although I'd have made the sights a tad larger. It's smaller and feels better in the hand to me than the S&W .380s. Not my first choice in a CCW, but they do carry well when you need something small and light. I carry one hiking a lot.

I don't like Taurus and their customer service has apparently gotten worse. They just don't feel right in my hands and they are hard to get a good trigger pull on.

HK is too damn expensive, their customer service sucks if you're not law enforcement, and basically they have an attitude that you suck if you're not law enforcement or military. They do make some sweet guns though. I love the old P7s (Hans used either a P7 or P13 in the original Die Hard; can't remember off the top of my head which)! Expensive, heavy and they heat up quickly when practicing though.

There are plenty of other manufacturers and most produce at least one serviceable model. Some I like some I don't.

Nothing wrong with a good revolver and S&W still makes a good one. That picture you posted is a very nice blue box gun! I like S&W's 442/642 series for CCW. .357 in a lightweight snub nose is pretty brutal. They aren't fun to practice with and they tend to impart a flinch to shooters who don't shoot a lot. In my opinion, with that short barrel you aren't gaining enough to justify the increased noise, muzzle flash and follow up shot times. I'll stick to Speer's Short Barreled loading in .38 +P.

Whatever you get, make sure you're comfortable with it. If you like the gun you'll be more inclined to shoot it more often and develop better habits. Practice, practice, practice.

 

[Corey]

Thanks Robert for the all the info.
He had four of those blue box guns, but is down to two of them now.
One to shoot, and one to display only and keep virgin

I guess the Gen IV is not out yet for the 21SF, but it did come in a few variations, including the one he told me to stay away from the dual mag release.
Also you could get either a Glock Rail, or the Picatinny rail.
The Glock rail is fine as it will allow the mounting of a light, laser, or a combo one like the Surefire X400 I have on my AR15.
Also less chance of a holster hangup with the Glock rail.

I have medium sized hands, and his 21SF felt fine in them, in fact much better than my old Taurus 9 mm I had many years ago.

Also this gun will not be for concealed carry.
It will be for home defense, laying next to me when camping, and target shooting at the range to get good with it.
I am OK with the size of it, it felt really nice, not much of a difference really between it and the Glock 9 mm one he had.

Saw your comment on the twist rate of my AR, I will have to check it later, and I will update that thread.

Here is a video he found of the same model he has.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzoujSa2cGg&feature=related"]YouTube - Glock 21SF[/ame]