Best full-size 4 season composite trailer?

Alloy

Well-known member
We are not talking about the MorRyde Air1 suspension. We are talking about the new MorRyde independent trailing arm air suspension that the Palomino Pause trailers are going to use. Best I can tell, it doesn't show up anywhere on MorRyde's website yet. You can see it in some of the videos out about Pause trailers.

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That's a nice system. The components can be swapped like the Air1 but I don't see HCV (height control valves). Without them the side to side loading is going to be an issue. Also be concerned about the wear and tear on the shorter bushings vs. the full length bushing Cruisemaster has.
 

Alloy

Well-known member
The independent sp trailers especially the tall ones do have negatives especially those long pavement stretches between the short dirt parts. They don’t track as nice as the leaf spring trailers. Notice sway bars getting added to the Chinese stuff and lots of chatter about finding better shocks for them. Its not all rainbows and woops?. They are cool but I’m with you I’ll take a leaf spring for the right price. My 10spd with 3.73 has a pretty nice crawl ratio in 4lo. But I miss my manual when there’s no traffic

I've had Timbren IS on my trailer for years. Done thousands or miles on/off road. Tracking and sway has never been an issue.

Try it You'll like it :)
 

Treefarmer

Active member

The video shows my X22 at about 75 MPH with torsion suspension. Straight as an arrow and no leaf springs. I have a similar video of my HQ19. Perfectly stable with swing arms.

You're right that stiff leaf springs do well on smooth highways, but they suck off road because they are generally stiff, have a lot of stiction, have no (or worthless) shocks and have limited ground clearance. So, they bounce around on rough roads and beat the trailer up with it jumping around or vibrating from washboard.

Since this thread is about off-road caravan style trailers, it makes sense to talk about what works on rough trails instead of on smooth highways.

Swing arms can have almost no stiction, much more travel and have quality shocks. Black Series puts shocks on that are worthless, but that does not mean swing arms are worthless, and it is easy to get good shocks as a direct replacement. I did it on my HQ19. Sway bars are an excellent addition to suspensions that actually have good travel and good damping, instead of just being stiff. That why all cars have them and why they are on the front of pickups. The front is soft and tuned, the rear is generally just stiff. Even the car manufactuterss know the difference here and get it right.

Off road, it is important to keep the poundingt that the trailer receives to a minimum, and keep the tires in contact with the ground as much as possible. And I'm not talking about speeding, or racing. I'm talking about the quality of the ride, to minimize damage, and bouncing around. One place go in Death Valley is over 50 miles in on dirt and rocky roads, each way. If I can only manage 10 MPH, it takes over ten hours to get there! Each way! If I can go 20 MPH average, I can cut that in half. Arguing to just slow down, when the speed is already at 10 MPH, is ridiculous.

When a trailer works well off-road, it might need some help on-road to keep it from leaning too much on turns. This is where the sway bars come in, although they doo help on dirt too. They help keep it stable both on and off road, but probably more on-road. Can you imagine buying a new car and installing leaf spring suspension, and then trying to argue it was more stable on the highway, or better on dirt roads? No way is that true and that is why cars and trucks have coils springs, at least in the front. Much better ride, much better cornering with sway bars that tune the suspension, much less bouncing around. It works with cars and modern pickups the same as it does with trailers. Try riding in an old Dodge Ram from the eighties and convince yourself it is better with leaf springs.

I've graduated from archaic leaf springs, am willing to pay the price for quality and I spend a lot of time on rough roads. To each, his own. But arguing leaves are better because they work better on the highway, when we are talking about off-road trailers, simply misses the point. And suggesting that leaves are better because companies install junk shocks, is more of a comment on the manufacturer than the basic design. Black Series is generally an example of how not to build. And we didn't even get into the variable ride height and leveling available with air bag or hydraulic systems.
I hope you weren't that honest when you sold your Black Series! ?
 

Buddha.

Finally in expo white.
As long as we’re talking about trailer suspension here, check out this picture I got today. 40’ fifth wheel, was leaning bad. Customer apparently unaware.9E1D699D-CCED-49FE-B9DC-5E87E29F7F85.jpeg
 

Raspy

Active member
As long as we’re talking about trailer suspension here, check out this picture I got today. 40’ fifth wheel, was leaning bad. Customer apparently unaware.View attachment 754549
I love how the U bolt plate is holding the whole thing together. Look at the unsprung weight of the axle, the springs and the drum brakes. Notice too, that the shackle pins and equalizer are not greaseable. This means they are using the typical cheap plastic dry bushing at the pivot points. Soon, those are gone and the system becomes metal to metal on all the wear points. Then the holes elongate and the whole system gets weak and loose. There are better systems for off-road.
 

Alloy

Well-known member
As long as we’re talking about trailer suspension here, check out this picture I got today. 40’ fifth wheel, was leaning bad. Customer apparently unaware.View attachment 754549

I've climbed under brand new trailers that have flat springs. Sometimes I think they build axles from spare parts. Say 1800lb springs with a 4000lb axle or maybe Dexter quality control has sunk to a new level.

Manufactures will use the same size springs on both sides without taking into account slides/kitchen/fridge/bath/tanks/storage. The OA capacity of the springs is enough for the GVWR but one side is carrying 60% of the weight. Here's some examples
1669910246041.png

1669912185604.png

With air IS the pressure is adjusted (when there is HCV) side to side to accommodate any weight differences.
 
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calicamper

Expedition Leader
I've climbed under brand new trailers that have flat springs. Sometime I think they build axles from spare parts. Say 1800lb springs with a 4000lb axle or maybe Dexter quality control has sunk to a new level.

Manufactures will use the same size springs on both sides without taking into account slides/kitchen/fridge/bath/tanks/storage. The OA capacity of the springs is enought for the GVWR but one side is carrying 60% of the weight. Here's some examples
View attachment 754582

View attachment 754593

With air IS the pressure is adjusted (when there is HCV) side to side to accommodate any weight differences.


The cheap imported mass produced stuff definitely has migrated to pretty poor quality. Also cost cutting has hit the point where spring length and the metal stock availability has lots of imported stuff running really short leaf springs and pretty low quality steel straps. Its a big combination of factors that definitely are resulting in poor durability, poor ride quality, poor assembly and parts quality.
 

Alloy

Well-known member
The cheap imported mass produced stuff definitely has migrated to pretty poor quality. Also cost cutting has hit the point where spring length and the metal stock availability has lots of imported stuff running really short leaf springs and pretty low quality steel straps. Its a big combination of factors that definitely are resulting in poor durability, poor ride quality, poor assembly and parts quality.

One company owns all the brands so there's no incentive to improve quality. Sadly that's happening with many products.
 

Raspy

Active member
Good point. Four season capability and off road capability are not the same thing. I've often wondered why well built fiberglass trailers like Bigfoot and Oliver don't put more capable independent suspensions on their trailers. It's probably because the aluminum frames aren't designed for it.

I don't think the aluminum frame is the problem, as the frame is cradled by a galvanized truck assembly that mounts the suspension. The stock suspension is very minimal, but Oliver has no incentive to change it since they sell a lot of trailers and the trailers are not designed to go off-road. I considered upgrading mine, but decided instead to move on to something else. Olivers are gradually becoming more and more outdated and it is time for a refresh. They are really on-road trailers.
 

Raspy

Active member
Please help bring me up to speed on current offerings of quality composite trailers. I‘m looking for something that is spacious but ideally lightweight. Doesn’t have to have the bling of a Bruder just not junk.

Ideally it would be light enough to pull with my Raptor, space for 4, handle miles Of washboard roads in summer and be warm enough to use as winter ski base camp

I wish OEV would build one - I‘ve followed them from the beginning and really like their work. Is there anything in the trailer world that comes close?

XPLORE X195 looks close but I have questions about actual build quality

Is there anything in the “overland” world that compares in price and quality to a good aluminum living quarters stock trailer? Because honestly, I’m underwhelmed by what I’ve seen. Thanks!
Have you had a chance to see an X195 in person and check out the build quality? I'm looking forward to doing just that, but haven't yet.
 

Treefarmer

Active member
I don't think the aluminum frame is the problem, as the frame is cradled by a galvanized truck assembly that mounts the suspension. The stock suspension is very minimal, but Oliver has no incentive to change it since they sell a lot of trailers and the trailers are not designed to go off-road. I considered upgrading mine, but decided instead to move on to something else. Olivers are gradually becoming more and more outdated and it is time for a refresh. They are really on-road trailers.
Since you've had one, other than the suspension (which is a big deal), what else about the Oliver makes it "not designed to go off-road"? They seem as well built as anything else out there.
 

TGK

Active member
I don't think the aluminum frame is the problem, as the frame is cradled by a galvanized truck assembly that mounts the suspension. The stock suspension is very minimal, but Oliver has no incentive to change it since they sell a lot of trailers and the trailers are not designed to go off-road. I considered upgrading mine, but decided instead to move on to something else. Olivers are gradually becoming more and more outdated and it is time for a refresh. They are really on-road trailers.
An acquaintance of mine has owned the smaller Oliver single axle unit for a while. He's shared that he has taken it down a fair amount of "old growth" washboard FS/BLM roads and it is holding up well. Of course, those are not "jeep" trails and he is likely tamping down his speed considerably. I guess if a trailer is not designed for it, one can push the limits as long as one goes slow enough. The question then becomes how long does it take to get to the destination and is it worth it?
 

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