mountainpete
Spamicus Eliminatus
Since this thread isn't about Toyota's, it will be moved to the Recovery & Tools section shortly 
Best Welder
- Thread starter midtraveltaco
- Start date
Antichrist
Expedition Leader
Bumpers are going to be pretty easy to build with a MIG, roll cages you should use TIG for.
I'd say get a stick welder with a TIG torch to go with it. If you think you'll want to weld aluminum you'll need a a high-freq TIG unit, but I wouldn't invest in that now unless you have money to burn, you may decide you hate welding, and they aren't cheap.
As for learning, you'd be better off learning on stick with something like 7024. It's easy to get a good bead and will let you have something to compare to when using 7018, which would be good for some of the welds on a bumper.
Pick up a copy of Lincoln Electric's "Proceedure Handbook of Arc Welding"
Find a community college that has a welding class.
Nothing wrong with MIG by any means, but it's really easy to get great looking welds that aren't worth a crap. I've seen it way too many times.
I'd say get a stick welder with a TIG torch to go with it. If you think you'll want to weld aluminum you'll need a a high-freq TIG unit, but I wouldn't invest in that now unless you have money to burn, you may decide you hate welding, and they aren't cheap.
As for learning, you'd be better off learning on stick with something like 7024. It's easy to get a good bead and will let you have something to compare to when using 7018, which would be good for some of the welds on a bumper.
Pick up a copy of Lincoln Electric's "Proceedure Handbook of Arc Welding"
Find a community college that has a welding class.
Nothing wrong with MIG by any means, but it's really easy to get great looking welds that aren't worth a crap. I've seen it way too many times.
Lumberjack
Adventurer
Miller DVI here, having the option of 110v has saved the day more than once. Just make sure you feel comfortable with your skills before doing critical stuff, rollbars and such. If not sure, get it tacked together and then have a pro finish it. If he will let you, look over his shoulder and ask for suggestions. No better way to learn than doing.
As Stacy David says "Get out there and build something"
Dennis
As Stacy David says "Get out there and build something"
Dennis
Jacket
2008 Expedition Trophy Champion
What part of the country are you in?
goodtimes
Expedition Poseur
What is the justification for that? I can only think of one person (that I know of), that used TIG for their cage (actually, he built his entire rock buggy with TIG). Most people are using MIG with no problems, even on the competition rock buggy chassis.
I agree with goodtimes here. TIG welding is so slow, that no one trying to make money would TIG a cage. The local guys here in NorCal who build beautiful cages like 4x4 Labs, FC Fabrication etc, all use MIG welding.
That's the whole point to MIG welding, you get the filler metal, the shielding gas and the arc all in 1 easy to use package. Nothing wrong with TIG, and it makes very pretty welds, and is better for very thin wall tubing like bike frames. For the 1/8 inch and up thickness of metal commonly used in the off road world, MIG works perfectly, and is 3 times faster to work and 10 times faster to learn. The equiptment for TIG welding is much more expensive as well.
Unless you are into welding for welding's sake, or TIG weld professionally, MIG is what you want for practical shop type uses.
Antichrist
Expedition Leader
The higher quality (stronger) alloys should be welded with TIG.
As for what's "best" my opinions are based on personal experience having used GMAW, SMAW, GTAW and FCAW. I've worked in a number of different industries from heavy truck repair/fabrication to pressure vessels (and variety of things in between), so I'm pretty familiar with the various processes and their pros and cons.
Taught properly, stick is actually easier to learn to get a good weld with. Like I've said, I've seen a lot of beautiful welds done with MIG that weren't worth a crap as far as joint integrity was concerned.
Last edited:
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
I agree with Antichrist on this. MIG's are nice machines, but it's so easy for beginners to take a stab at the wire speed and current and lay down some beads and think they're welding, when really it's not much better than metallic hot-glue. I've seen some truly nasty welds on things that the owners should be embarrassed about, but they just let it go because it "works". A lot of this stems from shows on TV where you've got people MIG welding with no protective gear, they just close their eyes and spray metal everywhere.
I bought myself a Miller EconoTIG years ago and taught myself to weld. It does stick too, but I hate stick. I TIG everything, even my garage shelving. I've got a box of sticks that have been rotting in the basement forever.
I think learning TIG forces you to develop good habits. It won't tollerate welding on dirty metals. You must wear protective gear and use a helmet because the weld takes longer, there's no quick way about it, your filler hand is right in there, and you have to SEE the weld pool. I just love that you have live control over the weld heat, and the amount of filler you want to add. If you're doing a butt weld, you don't need much filler. If you are doing a fillet, lots of filler. If you've got a butt weld that blends into a fillet, then comes up on a edge, you can blend them all together on the fly and make a beautiful weld, instead of stopping to change settings.
I also like the TIG because you can weld anything. Steel, SS, Aluminum, or even into the exotics. The only thing it won't do is weld nasty old rusty dirty steel. But, if you're fixing up an old trailer, just use the stick mode on the same machine.
I just really wanted the option of welding aluminum, because it opens up the repertoir of what you can make. I just made a nice light bar for my truck out of aluminum instead of steel. Weighs nothing and won't rust. I've also done aluminum piping for car intakes and coolant systems, and some SS for exhausts.
Yeah, TIG is slow, but unless you're doing production welding. Who cares? The EconoTIG only has a 20% duty cycle, but I've only shut it down once. Novices spend way more time fitting than welding. Or at least they should. It doesn't really have high frequency or square wave, so the aluminum welding isn't great, but it works. I've made pressure vessels for coolant systems that have held on the first try. You don't NEED square wave for aluminum just for the basics. Just don't try to weld up a homebuilt aircraft with it...
My only regret was that for only a few hundred more, I could have gotten a "real" TIG machine with square wave, etc. But at the time I didn't know better.
The other thing is Oxy welding. It's a lost art, mostly because of the popularity of cheap spray and pray MIG welding machines. Gas welding is very similar to TIG, and the skills transfer over. The setups are cheap, plus you can use them to cut, and you can weld aluminum too. But nobody does it anymore because it's the hardest of all.
I bought myself a Miller EconoTIG years ago and taught myself to weld. It does stick too, but I hate stick. I TIG everything, even my garage shelving. I've got a box of sticks that have been rotting in the basement forever.
I think learning TIG forces you to develop good habits. It won't tollerate welding on dirty metals. You must wear protective gear and use a helmet because the weld takes longer, there's no quick way about it, your filler hand is right in there, and you have to SEE the weld pool. I just love that you have live control over the weld heat, and the amount of filler you want to add. If you're doing a butt weld, you don't need much filler. If you are doing a fillet, lots of filler. If you've got a butt weld that blends into a fillet, then comes up on a edge, you can blend them all together on the fly and make a beautiful weld, instead of stopping to change settings.
I also like the TIG because you can weld anything. Steel, SS, Aluminum, or even into the exotics. The only thing it won't do is weld nasty old rusty dirty steel. But, if you're fixing up an old trailer, just use the stick mode on the same machine.
I just really wanted the option of welding aluminum, because it opens up the repertoir of what you can make. I just made a nice light bar for my truck out of aluminum instead of steel. Weighs nothing and won't rust. I've also done aluminum piping for car intakes and coolant systems, and some SS for exhausts.
Yeah, TIG is slow, but unless you're doing production welding. Who cares? The EconoTIG only has a 20% duty cycle, but I've only shut it down once. Novices spend way more time fitting than welding. Or at least they should. It doesn't really have high frequency or square wave, so the aluminum welding isn't great, but it works. I've made pressure vessels for coolant systems that have held on the first try. You don't NEED square wave for aluminum just for the basics. Just don't try to weld up a homebuilt aircraft with it...
My only regret was that for only a few hundred more, I could have gotten a "real" TIG machine with square wave, etc. But at the time I didn't know better.
The other thing is Oxy welding. It's a lost art, mostly because of the popularity of cheap spray and pray MIG welding machines. Gas welding is very similar to TIG, and the skills transfer over. The setups are cheap, plus you can use them to cut, and you can weld aluminum too. But nobody does it anymore because it's the hardest of all.
Antichrist
Expedition Leader
Well, I'd never suggest someone start learning with TIG. Unless you have a lot of patience, or have a "natural" talent for it, you'll get frustrated quickly and put it in the shelf.
The nice thing about learning with stick is that you don't have to get TIG gear right away.
Just get a decent DC stick welder and practice. Once you learn arc control, what good welds look like, fitting and the things like that (and that you actually do like welding), then you can get a TIG torch, consumables and tank of gas and you've got what you need for TIG. All that's left is to learn it. BTW, if you're doing TIG you should have a dedicated grinder for your electrodes that you don't use for anything else.
For things like bumpers, sliders and whatnot, if you have a good looking weld with stick, odds are better than they are with MIG that it is in fact a good weld.
The nice thing about learning with stick is that you don't have to get TIG gear right away.
Just get a decent DC stick welder and practice. Once you learn arc control, what good welds look like, fitting and the things like that (and that you actually do like welding), then you can get a TIG torch, consumables and tank of gas and you've got what you need for TIG. All that's left is to learn it. BTW, if you're doing TIG you should have a dedicated grinder for your electrodes that you don't use for anything else.
For things like bumpers, sliders and whatnot, if you have a good looking weld with stick, odds are better than they are with MIG that it is in fact a good weld.
ntsqd
Heretic Car Camper
Having informally taught TIG many times I always start folks on Oxy-Fuel. Once they're comfortable with that process, then I switch them over to TIG/GTAW/Heliarc (some folks get too caught up in the 'correct' terminology). I start off with stainless steel as it does not boil nearly as easily as does mild steel, which makes it a natural choice for someone just starting to learn heat control with a "throttle". Of those 20 or so folks only one wanted to start on aluminum and actually found it easier than ferrous alloys.
I used to have a good stick hand, but it's been so long since I did any stick work that I suspect that I'd nearly be starting over. I hear the uninformed putting down stick as inferior and messy. That's a clue that they've never seen stick done by someone who is well versed in the process. I grew up partly on my grandparent's farm in Central Oregon and one of their good friends and nearby neighbors was taught by Kaiser Steel how to stick weld small things like bridges, towers, and buildings together. I challenge any MIG welder to produce welds like his! Odds are that if you've ever seen a Crown Crane or New Holland farm implement out of the PNW you've seen some of his welds. When I worked in Vintage Touring & race car prep, fab, and repair I worked on a fair number of cars whose steel sheet metal was stick-arc'd together. :Wow1:
The mistake that I think most make in regard to MIG welders is that they use a 110VAC machine beyond it's limits. That sticker inside spool access door that gives the basic settings for given thickness' of steel doesn't stop below the thickness trying to be welded because they got tired or forgot to include it.
I used to have a good stick hand, but it's been so long since I did any stick work that I suspect that I'd nearly be starting over. I hear the uninformed putting down stick as inferior and messy. That's a clue that they've never seen stick done by someone who is well versed in the process. I grew up partly on my grandparent's farm in Central Oregon and one of their good friends and nearby neighbors was taught by Kaiser Steel how to stick weld small things like bridges, towers, and buildings together. I challenge any MIG welder to produce welds like his! Odds are that if you've ever seen a Crown Crane or New Holland farm implement out of the PNW you've seen some of his welds. When I worked in Vintage Touring & race car prep, fab, and repair I worked on a fair number of cars whose steel sheet metal was stick-arc'd together. :Wow1:
The mistake that I think most make in regard to MIG welders is that they use a 110VAC machine beyond it's limits. That sticker inside spool access door that gives the basic settings for given thickness' of steel doesn't stop below the thickness trying to be welded because they got tired or forgot to include it.
ntsqd,
Since you bring up Stick welding, which is all I know how to do, what do you think of the Lincoln AC/DC 225/125 Welder?
All I need is just basic stick welding in relatively normal positions on basic mild steel. The normal, Frame, Axles, Hangers, minor plate to plate welding.....etc.
I figure just a basic 7018 rod and only switch when doing something with different steels.
Since you bring up Stick welding, which is all I know how to do, what do you think of the Lincoln AC/DC 225/125 Welder?
All I need is just basic stick welding in relatively normal positions on basic mild steel. The normal, Frame, Axles, Hangers, minor plate to plate welding.....etc.
I figure just a basic 7018 rod and only switch when doing something with different steels.
Antichrist
Expedition Leader
That's an old diehard. I've run many a bead with one of those. You can't go wrong with that. And since its the AC/DC model you can do TIG later if you want.
Last edited:
Antichrist
Expedition Leader
What they don't realize is that all those industrial plants around the country have miles and miles of piping done with a 6010 root (or TIG root) with 7018 filler and cap.
I've never seen MIG used for that, though I've MIG welded 6" sch 40 pipe in 6G for fun, just to see how it was.
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
How do you use a buzz box to do TIG?
86cj
Explorer
I learned how to weld on my AC/DC 225 Buzzbox and admit it will do the job well and is easy to learn the principals on, I recommend it.
I also now have a Lincolin SP175 plus 220V Mig and have to say it's alot easier to use and easier to clean up after. My buddy is a welder for a tool and die shop and tends to work my little Lincolin like he using his $25,000 work machine, it has survived 10 yrs. I have not Tig welded but really like the fact that it leaves even less mess than a Mig.
So it is just like any other tool, as you get older you upgrade your tool that works just fine, because a new tool does it better..........