Bilbo, an XJ build thread.....

[fla_cracker]

Hey folks,

I just wanted to start a thread for the XJ I recently purchased. I'm no stranger to building and offroading Buuuuuttttt...... I am new to extended trips and Overlanding. So the purpose of this is to build a competent and reliable rig by sharing ideas and experiences with you folks. I also hope to garner some of the wisdom and knowledge this forum has to offer.

So I guess first off, what is the purpose of this vehicle. I am a recently single father of a 14y/o son. I would like to take my new found freedom and start traveling with my boy so he can experience more than just what is here locally, in Florida. The world is a HUGE place and needs to be experienced. I would like to start by taking short duration trips in the southeast and then progress into longer, farther reaching trips that would one day include Washington, Alaska and Canada. I have a small popup camper that we will be towing. It is currently being modified for offroad travel as well.


Next up is Bilbo.....

Bilbo is a 2000 Jeep Cherokee 2wd that I bought from a government auction site (Govdeals.com). He has 103k on the clock but is in really good condition. Here are some pics...

The day his tour of duty with the police department ended.






They kept him immaculate inside....






Even in the hidden areas....




Some minor holes from the emergency lighting...


Amazingly no rust to speak of......especially considering his department was on a barrier island...

 

[fla_cracker]

I am currently gathering the parts needed to make Bilbo 4wd. I purchased a high pinion d30 yesterday and a friend has an auto tranny from a 4wd. That only leaves a tcase and driveshafts still needed. I was going to drive Bilbo for a while before doing the conversion but after some inspection when I got home, I found that he needed front wheel bearings and some other maintenance items. So I figured rather than spend money twice.....just push forward and convert him.

My current dilemma is what lift? I know, it's like the 64 million dollar question.

My goal is to run a 33x10.5 or equivalent tire. So that land me in the 4.5" of lift required range. Lots of options out there. A close friend is trying to persuade me to go with a long arm kit. These are nice but very expensive. I do not want to do a regular short arm lift due to ride harshness and stress on parts. So that leaves the only other option being a drop kit, which lowers the short arms into better geometry.

Also, I already have a flat fender kit to make up the required fender clearence for the 33s.



So please, anybody with experience in these two styles of lift, let me know what you think...

 

[fla_cracker]

Here is that HP d30....

 

[Comanche Scott]

Nice find! :beer:

At that height, I like the idea of a long arm as well.
How are your fab skills?
If you are, or know, a competent welder it's not difficult. Actually you could probably just follow along one of the many long arm builds for the XJ.

 

[BNJeepsta]

I am currently gathering the parts needed to make Bilbo 4wd. I purchased a high pinion d30 yesterday and a friend has an auto tranny from a 4wd. That only leaves a tcase and driveshafts still needed. I was going to drive Bilbo for a while before doing the conversion but after some inspection when I got home, I found that he needed front wheel bearings and some other maintenance items. So I figured rather than spend money twice.....just push forward and convert him.

My current dilemma is what lift? I know, it's like the 64 million dollar question.

My goal is to run a 33x10.5 or equivalent tire. So that land me in the 4.5" of lift required range. Lots of options out there. A close friend is trying to persuade me to go with a long arm kit. These are nice but very expensive. I do not want to do a regular short arm lift due to ride harshness and stress on parts. So that leaves the only other option being a drop kit, which lowers the short arms into better geometry.

Also, I already have a flat fender kit to make up the required fender clearence for the 33s.



So please, anybody with experience in these two styles of lift, let me know what you think...

After owning/building 11 XJ's, here's what I can tell you for a FACT. 1) You don't need anywhere near 4.5" of lift to run 33x10.50's. If you trim the fenders, you don't need any lift at all. 2) That set up isn't ideal and I wouldn't recommend it. A quality 3" lift is all that you need to have an extremely capable rig with 33x10.50's. 3) The stock, inverted "y" steering on the XJ is absolute garbage and should be upgraded, at a minimum, to a V8 ZJ tie rod. 4) You purchased a 4.0 with an 0331 head and that needs to be addressed. Do a complete once-over on the cooling system and never forget that with the 0331 head, it's a ticking time bomb.

Now, on to more "opinionated" things. I have ran just about every lift height and brand configuration on an XJ that you can think of. Rough Country blows, plain and simple. They are the cheapest for a reason. Rusty's springs are decent because he doesn't make them and the rest of his stuff is pretty average. They also have a history of issues with their fab parts breaking (read: broken track bar). Iron Rock Offroad and Rubicon Express are pretty middle of the road and solid kits. OME springs are the bomb, Clayton makes some top notch stuff and metal cloak has a 3.5" kit that is damn near perfect. My favorite set up so far has been: Metalcloak 3.5" coils, OME HD leaf springs with HDO relocation brackets and longer shackles, B-Lee's 3 link with JJ's, WJ front end swap for brakes and steering, and Bilstein 5100 shocks. Rides like a dream, has insane amounts of travel and handles a trailer great.

On a budget, I would say, OME springs, Rancho shocks, IRO adjustable lower arms, and a tie rod upgrade.

I'm sure people will chime in and say "I have rough country and it rides like a caddy and i love it!". I'd be willing to bet, those people have never ridden in an XJ with quality spings, shocks, and good suspension geometry. My first lift ever was a rough country 3" with full leaf packs. The leaf springs were so short, my shackle was 90° and it rode like a lumber wagon. The shocks started leaking after a few months and the leaf springs had sagged to stock height after about a year.

Since you'll already have the t case out, you might as well do an SYE before you put it back in too.

 

[fla_cracker]

After owning/building 11 XJ's, here's what I can tell you for a FACT. 1) You don't need anywhere near 4.5" of lift to run 33x10.50's. If you trim the fenders, you don't need any lift at all. 2) That set up isn't ideal and I wouldn't recommend it. A quality 3" lift is all that you need to have an extremely capable rig with 33x10.50's. 3) The stock, inverted "y" steering on the XJ is absolute garbage and should be upgraded, at a minimum, to a V8 ZJ tie rod. 4) You purchased a 4.0 with an 0331 head and that needs to be addressed. Do a complete once-over on the cooling system and never forget that with the 0331 head, it's a ticking time bomb.

Now, on to more "opinionated" things. I have ran just about every lift height and brand configuration on an XJ that you can think of. Rough Country blows, plain and simple. They are the cheapest for a reason. Rusty's springs are decent because he doesn't make them and the rest of his stuff is pretty average. They also have a history of issues with their fab parts breaking (read: broken track bar). Iron Rock Offroad and Rubicon Express are pretty middle of the road and solid kits. OME springs are the bomb, Clayton makes some top notch stuff and metal cloak has a 3.5" kit that is damn near perfect. My favorite set up so far has been: Metalcloak 3.5" coils, OME HD leaf springs with HDO relocation brackets and longer shackles, B-Lee's 3 link with JJ's, WJ front end swap for brakes and steering, and Bilstein 5100 shocks. Rides like a dream, has insane amounts of travel and handles a trailer great.

On a budget, I would say, OME springs, Rancho shocks, IRO adjustable lower arms, and a tie rod upgrade.

I'm sure people will chime in and say "I have rough country and it rides like a caddy and i love it!". I'd be willing to bet, those people have never ridden in an XJ with quality spings, shocks, and good suspension geometry. My first lift ever was a rough country 3" with full leaf packs. The leaf springs were so short, my shackle was 90° and it rode like a lumber wagon. The shocks started leaking after a few months and the leaf springs had sagged to stock height after about a year.

Since you'll already have the t case out, you might as well do an SYE before you put it back in too.

Wow..... Thank you for the great reply. I was certainly on the fence about "needing" a long arm kit. My last XJ had 4"s of miscellaneous bits. And worked well. Although it wasn't the smoothest ride.

When you say you can fit 33s with trimming, how much surgery are we talking? I don't mind cutting metal as long as I can make it look nice.

My goal of 33s is for the ground clearance. I don't plan of doing extreme trails but I don't wanna hit my diff on everything.

So please tell me more about the head issue. This is my third XJ and I have never had an issue with heads. Previous XJs were an 89' and a 95'.

 

[BNJeepsta]

Wow..... Thank you for the great reply. I was certainly on the fence about "needing" a long arm kit. My last XJ had 4"s of miscellaneous bits. And worked well. Although it wasn't the smoothest ride.

When you say you can fit 33s with trimming, how much surgery are we talking? I don't mind cutting metal as long as I can make it look nice.

My goal of 33s is for the ground clearance. I don't plan of doing extreme trails but I don't wanna hit my diff on everything.

So please tell me more about the head issue. This is my third XJ and I have never had an issue with heads. Previous XJs were an 89' and a 95'.

In 2000, the 4.0 was redesigned slightly. The distributor ignition was removed and replaced with coil packs, the exhaust manifold was changed and has cats mounted right to it (hence the need for a low pinion housing) and the head was redesigned. This head casting was designated "0331" and was only used in 2000 and 2001. By 2002, mopar had recognized the issue and released the "TUPY" head, which is a much improved design. The problem with the 0331 head is that two of the combustion chambers have a tiny little strip of head gasket between them and it WILL fail. This almost always results in a blown head gasket and a cracked head. Fortunately, if yours hasn't already been updated, a TUPY head is easily sourced and swapped in.

The amount of trimming required for 33's and a 3-3.5" lift is pretty minimal and can be made to look very nice. If i can figure out how, I will attach a pic of my old rig with 3" and 33x10.50 BFG KM2's. The 33's are a nice balance between ground clearance and reliability. Since you have an auto, I would recommend 4.56's unless you are planning a jump to 35's some day, then go 4.88's.

As long as you stay around 3.5" or less, short arms wont completely kill your ride, especially if you get quality adjustable short arms. Anything more than that, go long arm. A set of adjustable short arms and drop brackets is the same $$ as long arms. Oh and one last thing, you wont be able to put that HP d30 in without a lift, the pinion will smash your downpipe when it cycles up. That's why the 00 and 01 XJ's have a lp d30

 

[BNJeepsta]

 

[OffGridCamper]

I'm subbed - I've been waiting an XJ for a while, I prefer the XJ over the JK and so on style.

Sent From 1 of Many Samsung Devices

 

[Emorphius]

I have a 4.5" OME/DPG hybrid kit running 33's and BW flat flares. I best lift this rig has ever seen and Dirk is awesome to work with. The tires tuck beautifully at full compression. The only thing I plan to change is going with Bilstein shocks when the OMEs are done. I went with the HD rear packs because I am building an expo trailer. Little stiff unloaded but rides fantastic with a little weight or when I have the trailer attached.

 

[fla_cracker]

In 2000, the 4.0 was redesigned slightly. The distributor ignition was removed and replaced with coil packs, the exhaust manifold was changed and has cats mounted right to it (hence the need for a low pinion housing) and the head was redesigned. This head casting was designated "0331" and was only used in 2000 and 2001. By 2002, mopar had recognized the issue and released the "TUPY" head, which is a much improved design. The problem with the 0331 head is that two of the combustion chambers have a tiny little strip of head gasket between them and it WILL fail. This almost always results in a blown head gasket and a cracked head. Fortunately, if yours hasn't already been updated, a TUPY head is easily sourced and swapped in.

The amount of trimming required for 33's and a 3-3.5" lift is pretty minimal and can be made to look very nice. If i can figure out how, I will attach a pic of my old rig with 3" and 33x10.50 BFG KM2's. The 33's are a nice balance between ground clearance and reliability. Since you have an auto, I would recommend 4.56's unless you are planning a jump to 35's some day, then go 4.88's.

As long as you stay around 3.5" or less, short arms wont completely kill your ride, especially if you get quality adjustable short arms. Anything more than that, go long arm. A set of adjustable short arms and drop brackets is the same $$ as long arms. Oh and one last thing, you wont be able to put that HP d30 in without a lift, the pinion will smash your downpipe when it cycles up. That's why the 00 and 01 XJ's have a lp d30

OK, thanks for the info on the heads. I did hear about the HP d30 hitting the exhaust without a lift so that's why I'm trying to sort it out. I was thinking 4.56's also because there shouldn't be any need to ever go bigger. XJs on 31s are very capable.....33s, makes them awesome.

I'm subbed - I've been waiting an XJ for a while, I prefer the XJ over the JK and so on style.

Sent From 1 of Many Samsung Devices

At the time I was bidding on mine, there was a 99' with 33k on it!!!!! It sold for like 5,800 I think.

I have a 4.5" OME/DPG hybrid kit running 33's and BW flat flares. I best lift this rig has ever seen and Dirk is awesome to work with. The tires tuck beautifully at full compression. The only thing I plan to change is going with Bilstein shocks when the OMEs are done. I went with the HD rear packs because I am building an expo trailer. Little stiff unloaded but rides fantastic with a little weight or when I have the trailer attached.
View attachment 340020

Wow, your rig looks exactly like what I'm shooting for. I've got a set of BW flat flares waiting for me already. Yes I believe HD rear packs are certainly in order. I plan on towing the popup. I will check out what DPG has.

 

[WheelsUp]

BNjeepsta pretty much summed it up.
I think a 3" OME lift on 32s or 33s would be a good balance.
I wheeled a 99 XJ for years. I started with 2" ome springs and 31s, then soon moved to a 4.5" lift, 33s and 4.56. It did well on the trail at 4.5", but I wouldn't want to drive it cross country. The 2" lift was awesome on the road, and I think rode better than stock. If I did it again, I'd trim more and lift less.

Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk

 

[WyoCherokee]

I am sitting at 3.5 with 32x10.5's with the fenders trimmed up to just above the "mini flare" and Napier Flat Flares. Tires tuck beautifully and i keep a low cog.

Tomorrow i will be installing 1.5" longer bumpstops to just keep the tires from contacting the inside of the flare at complete full compression.

 

[82fb]

I'm only on my third xj. For what you are wanting to do, I would recommend 31's (or 265/75r16 if you like 16 inch rims). 3 inch lift with stiffest springs you can find. I also have poly inserts in my coil springs and love it. Can take a huge hit and not feel like your teeth are going to fall out. Keep your stock gearing, you are going to tow in drive anyway and install a big tranny cooler. I got 20-21 mpg with that setup and it cruised great at 75mph. Stay away from mud terrains unless you love road noise. bfg AT's do fine and are quiet. If you don't have an 8.25 rear, find one to swap in. lunchbox locker in rear or Detroit if money's not tight. I would stay away from auto locker in the front. If you haven't tried braking with one front tire on road and the other front tire in the mud/snow whatever on the side of the road, I don't advise it. ARB if you must. Get your brakes into perfect condition since you will be towing a lot. I towed a nissan maxima on a steel car trailer about 35 miles, 2000 down elevation, then back up. Not my wisest choice... but somehow lived through it.

 

[fla_cracker]

Wow..... It's been a long time since I've been here. Sorry about that. Living life has kinda gotten in the way of making progress with Bilbo. But not to worry, I have gotten some things accomplished.

First off.... I know some of you will frown but I ended up purchasing a RC 4.5" long arm kit. It was very economical and included everything. So I figure that I will just upgrade as the need arises. Although I have not been able to install the kit yet...

I have have been recently battling tranny problems with the 4wd transmission I purchased for the conversion. It appears that I will have to RR the tranny with another unit. I hope to have this accomplished soon so I can progress further into the build.


Things that have been accomplished.

Upgraded the headlights to Halogen H4. I used the Hella housings and a Putco wiring harness. I must say that this is a very good investment. It is atleast a 100% improvement over stock. The pics do it no justice.

Before


After




I also pulled the carpet from the rear cargo area and bedlined it. Thankfully no rust was found. After the finish pics I got the edge of the factory carpet trimmed with edging for a clean finished look.






.