budget adventure vehicle: Sprinter vs Express

[DavidAlex]

Alternate title: is the Sprinter worth the price premium?

I think I'll soon be in the market for a budget adventure vehicle of the steel tent variety. I want to optimize for paved roads and forest roads, as I have not much interest in rock crawling, but as a lover of winter sports, I'd like the vehicle to have some capability in snow and ice. I started my research with a case of Sprinter-lust, but the high purchase price and threat of high maintenance costs led me to consider a broad swath of other options -- domestic vans, minivans, truck campers, used RVs. Truck campers hold the most appeal to me, as they are flexible, and probably the cheapest way to get "stand-up-ability" in a 4x4 package. But I don't like that you have to exit the camper to make a quick getaway (though I admit I may be overblowing this disadvantage -- it's probably pretty rare that anyone has to make a quick escape in their camper). I think I've settled on a Chevy Express van, as they are roomy, ubiquitous, fairly well-mannered on the highway, and return decent MPG. I'd probably opt for the RWD model and install an Eaton TrueTrac for snow traction.
Still, my Sprinter-lust persists. They certainly offer some advantages of the GM vans. Better fuel economy, obviously, better seats for long drives, and the big advantage: you can stand up in one without installing a fiberglass top (the cost of which eats up just about the entire price difference between the Sprinter and the domestic van). Aside from cost, the two big downsides to the Sprinter for me is that there's no mechical limited slip differential available, and the fact that I'd have to spend ~$1000 on a heater since it's not advisable to idle the Sprinter engine for heating purposes.

I guess my question for the group is, for those who made a similar decision, how and why did you decide the way you did? More generally, all advice is welcome. FYI, I'd like to keep my budget to around $10k for vehicle, sleeping platform, and small power system.
PS, can anyone tell me how to do a forced linebreak on this forum? [br] is not working for me. I don't love the Wall of Text look.

 

[Haf-E]

Line breaks seem to be working...

Sprinter's are not the best on snow and ice based on my experience - I would opt for an AWD express if I was planning on being in snow areas often - also avoids the forced "chain-up" required for RWD vehicles (when not really required). Mine is light in the rear admittedly - and that combined with the length (158" WB) doesn't allow the traction control to work well.

Passenger sprinters are often sold with a aux heater which can be made to run while stopped with a bit of rewiring - just helped a friend do it. All of the diesel heaters can be tempermental however - especially at altitude so perhaps other options are worth considering...

I would say it depends a lot on how many miles you plan to drive the rig... the more you do the better the sprinter would be probably. Also - are you planning on leaving the US for places like mexico? That would lean me towards an express.

$10k is low for a decent sprinter - but they are hitting that level these days - but with high mileage and some potential problems.

 

[DavidAlex]

Huh, the linebreak issue must be on my end then... probably this ancient version of Internet Explorer on my work PC.

I've heard mixed reviews about the Sprinter in snow; some people claim it's practically a snowplow when you have good tires and weight over the rear axle, and some saying you'll get stuck on wet grass when there's even a slight incline. I'd probably be building a fairly lightweight conversion, which would only be a liability when it comes to traction, so it's certainly something to keep in mind.

I suspect I'd be driving 5,000 - 7,000 miles per year. Certainly not enough for the Sprinter's improved fuel economy to pay for itself.

Yeah, I know $10k is not a lot for a Sprinter. Unfortunately it's not a lot for an AWD Express, either.

 

[simple]

On a 10 year old vehicle with miles on it, I'd say the express is going to be cheaper to maintain.

The sprinter has very limited suspension articulation so it easy to spin a tire on uneven ground when one of the rear tires gets un-weighted.

The high top sprinter offers nice headroom and the fairly straight sides that are easier to add paneling and interior parts.

The express gets 16-18mpg Highway, the sprinter gets a little over 20. higher priced diesel works out to about the same $/mile.

The sprinter is a cooler looking van with neat German design features.

The express AWD is cheaper for comparable year and wear.

 

[zuren]

I pondered a similar question years ago when I bought my Express. The Sprinters are cool and a high-top version would be nice and look better (I'm 6'2") but I've been happy with my Express.

Benefits of the Express AWD
- a budget, selectable 4x4 conversion is possible
- very good in the snow with A/T tires (I've been in very sketchy conditions and the van got us home; pulled a FedEx box truck out of the ditch this winter; beat down 2-3' drifts for some neighbors one winter so they could get in their driveway)
- OEM parts are available everywhere
- any shade-tree mechanic can work on it if you run into problems
- fuel economy isn't terrible; rolling at 60-65 MPH on the highway (flat terrain) I get 20-22 MPG (Firestone Destination A/T tires 265/70-16, 3.42 gears, 5.3L); city driving and hills it drops down to 15-17 MPG
- tow up to 10,000 lbs. (higher than Sprinter)
- mine came with the GM rear locker

Cons to the Express AWD
- Not much aftermarket support; most options are custom (and pricey) or fab it yourself
- Worse fuel economy than Sprinter
- Limited to gasoline; with the Sprinter, biodiesel could be an option

Based on the miles you plan to drive, it will take you forever to realize the return on investment for the cost premium of the diesel, despite the better fuel mileage. I like diesel but you pay for it!

My van is comfortable but a large part of me wishes I would have gone with a Ford E-series with a higher roof. Way more aftermarket support and easier to find one with a diesel. For now, the White Buffalo does its job!

 

[mhiscox]

I'll just add that standup height is as huge benefit if you'll be spending much time actually living in the truck. If you just sleep in it and do your cooking and sitting outside, not so much of a problem with a shorter roof.

The confusion about the Sprinter in low traction situations is, as noted, a factor of tires and rear wheel weight. They can indeed get stuck on wet grass, but can also plod through some serious stuff with momentum and more aggressive tires. Carrying on-board air and traction panels with a 2wd Sprinter can help your chances of getting out if you do have issues. Even better if you have a winch.



FWIW, Sprinters are quite nicely built. Less of a work van feel to them. But you are talking about more money and, probably worse, a MUCH smaller support network, No "right answer," for sure.

 

[bdog1]

I think an AWD chevy is a great choice
Having the easy access to real 4x4 with a T case swap is a real plus. As mentioned, fuel cost per mile is a wash, and cost of operation is way more on the Sprinter. The GM can also blend in where the Sprinter will stick out like a sore thumb. (If that matters) FWIW I think the T1Ns were the best models

I have no horse in this race, E350 7.3 Diesel with Quigley conversion for me, but mine is getting to be a classic. Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cole]

Owning a Sprinter with 285k miles on it I'm not sure where the idea comes from that it's all that expensive to maintain. Most things are far easier and cheaper than people make them out to be.

Being able to stand up inside totally transforms the user experience, especially when cold outside. The height also allows me to store a ton of stuff up out of the way that you couldn't do in a regular van.

 

[DavidAlex]

Thanks for the input everyone...

The sprinter has very limited suspension articulation so it easy to spin a tire on uneven ground when one of the rear tires gets un-weighted.

I probably need to learn more about truck/off road suspension. My suspension knowledge mostly comes from track/autocross cars, which has only limited applicability when talking about traction in less-than-ideal conditions.

I pondered a similar question years ago when I bought my Express. The Sprinters are cool and a high-top version would be nice and look better (I'm 6'2") but I've been happy with my Express.

Benefits of the Express AWD
- a budget, selectable 4x4 conversion is possible
- very good in the snow with A/T tires (I've been in very sketchy conditions and the van got us home; pulled a FedEx box truck out of the ditch this winter; beat down 2-3' drifts for some neighbors one winter so they could get in their driveway)
- OEM parts are available everywhere
- any shade-tree mechanic can work on it if you run into problems
- fuel economy isn't terrible; rolling at 60-65 MPH on the highway (flat terrain) I get 20-22 MPG (Firestone Destination A/T tires 265/70-16, 3.42 gears, 5.3L); city driving and hills it drops down to 15-17 MPG
- tow up to 10,000 lbs. (higher than Sprinter)
- mine came with the GM rear locker

Cons to the Express AWD
- Not much aftermarket support; most options are custom (and pricey) or fab it yourself
- Worse fuel economy than Sprinter
- Limited to gasoline; with the Sprinter, biodiesel could be an option

Based on the miles you plan to drive, it will take you forever to realize the return on investment for the cost premium of the diesel, despite the better fuel mileage. I like diesel but you pay for it!

My van is comfortable but a large part of me wishes I would have gone with a Ford E-series with a higher roof. Way more aftermarket support and easier to find one with a diesel. For now, the White Buffalo does its job!

Excellent rundown; I think I prioritize the handling of the Chevy van in the circa-2005 models I'll be looking at over the greater aftermarket support and diesel availability of the Ford.

I'll just add that standup height is as huge benefit if you'll be spending much time actually living in the truck. If you just sleep in it and do your cooking and sitting outside, not so much of a problem with a shorter roof.

The confusion about the Sprinter in low traction situations is, as noted, a factor of tires and rear wheel weight. They can indeed get stuck on wet grass, but can also plod through some serious stuff with momentum and more aggressive tires. Carrying on-board air and traction panels with a 2wd Sprinter can help your chances of getting out if you do have issues. Even better if you have a winch.

View attachment 284846

FWIW, Sprinters are quite nicely built. Less of a work van feel to them. But you are talking about more money and, probably worse, a MUCH smaller support network, No "right answer," for sure.

Yeah, I don't plan on living in the van, or really even doing months-long journeys, but the fact that one of the main purposes for buying a van is as use a ski bum-mobile really has me hesitating for forgo the high roof of the Sprinter, even if it is not the ideal vehicle otherwise.

Owning a Sprinter with 285k miles on it I'm not sure where the idea comes from that it's all that expensive to maintain. Most things are far easier and cheaper than people make them out to be.

Being able to stand up inside totally transforms the user experience, especially when cold outside. The height also allows me to store a ton of stuff up out of the way that you couldn't do in a regular van.

Yeah, but Cole, you only think that because you're comparing the Sprinter maintenance costs to VW maintenance costs! :coffeedrink: I do appreciate what you're saying though. I think because some people have had big repair bills with the Sprinter, there's a certain persistent internet myth that it's super expensive and unreliable.

As mhiscox said, there's no right answer...

 

[Cole]

Fwiw, our Sprinter is my preferred vehicle to take skiing. We usually get abut 40 days a year in. Diesel heater!! Stand up inside to get dressed/undressed!! Hang out inside for lunch!! Set the heater timer to fire it up about half hour before our planned lunch and before the end of the day!!!

Take a nap or stay the night if you want ;-)

 

[86cj]

Huh, the linebreak issue must be on my end then... probably this ancient version of Internet Explorer on my work PC.

I've heard mixed reviews about the Sprinter in snow; some people claim it's practically a snowplow when you have good tires and weight over the rear axle, and some saying you'll get stuck on wet grass when there's even a slight incline. I'd probably be building a fairly lightweight conversion, which would only be a liability when it comes to traction, so it's certainly something to keep in mind.

I suspect I'd be driving 5,000 - 7,000 miles per year. Certainly not enough for the Sprinter's improved fuel economy to pay for itself.

Yeah, I know $10k is not a lot for a Sprinter. Unfortunately it's not a lot for an AWD Express, either.

If you keep the conversion lightweight the AWD 1500 will do what you want easily, ours pushed through the Green and White Mountains in a big "Nor-easter". The 35-65% split transfer-case does not push the front on icy corners like some 4x4's. On road handling is excellent with rack and pinion steering, Off road the van just goes forward with little notice of wheel spin.
I have had a Truck Camper for 25 years and the best part of the Van is access to the porta-potty on the road, also truck campers and steep wooded trails are not as fun as it would seem. The AWD GM van is shorter than most pickups today with a 135" wheelbase, add a easy 2-3" lift and it's close to the new higher AWD Sprinter in ground clearance.
I have used both heaters to warm the van when cold and it works fine but we only do it before and after bed not while sleeping, the remote start gives 2 ten min cycles and it's getting warm by then.

I would find a used AWD 1500 conversion van with a hightop and get just what you want, they were very common. The Sprinters around here are very prone to rust all over the body, as a Unibody I would expect that same sheetmetal folded and spot welded into the frame does not look much better after the winter salt.

 

[haven]

The GVWR of the Chevy Express 1500 AWD is about 2000 lb. The first gen Sprinter 2500 Cargo capacity is more than double that amount. One diesel, one gas; one AWD, one RWD. Seems like an apples to oranges comparison to me.

 

[DavidAlex]

If you keep the conversion lightweight the AWD 1500 will do what you want easily, ours pushed through the Green and White Mountains in a big "Nor-easter". The 35-65% split transfer-case does not push the front on icy corners like some 4x4's. On road handling is excellent with rack and pinion steering, Off road the van just goes forward with little notice of wheel spin.
I have had a Truck Camper for 25 years and the best part of the Van is access to the porta-potty on the road, also truck campers and steep wooded trails are not as fun as it would seem. The AWD GM van is shorter than most pickups today with a 135" wheelbase, add a easy 2-3" lift and it's close to the new higher AWD Sprinter in ground clearance.
I have used both heaters to warm the van when cold and it works fine but we only do it before and after bed not while sleeping, the remote start gives 2 ten min cycles and it's getting warm by then.

I would find a used AWD 1500 conversion van with a hightop and get just what you want, they were very common. The Sprinters around here are very prone to rust all over the body, as a Unibody I would expect that same sheetmetal folded and spot welded into the frame does not look much better after the winter salt.

An AWD conversion van is a brilliant idea; can't believe I didn't think of it myself. They do look fairly common, although not 10-for-sale-on-my-local-craigslist common. They even seem to be priced about the same as AWD cargo vans and not nearly as beat up.

Would you mind expanding a bit on vans vs truck campers? Would a pop-up camper win back some of the disadvantages on a steep wooded trail?

The GVWR of the Chevy Express 1500 AWD is about 2000 lb. The first gen Sprinter 2500 Cargo capacity is more than double that amount. One diesel, one gas; one AWD, one RWD. Seems like an apples to oranges comparison to me.

They both keep your stuff dry when it rains, and go in a generally forward direction when you press on the skinny pedal. Everything else is just details!

 

[Cole]

You may be surprised at how heavy even a basic interior build can be.

I'd bet most people here have never had their vans on a truck scale. The weight adds up surprisingly quickly.

This is part of the reason the Sprinters are popular. With 4-5k of cargo capacity (depending on configuration) you have aome margin to add all your build stuff, then your gear, then people pets and their personal items.

My Sprinter is built extremely light compared to most and I'm easily over 2,500lbs of stuff (entire build+gear+people+ dogs etc.)

 

[DavidAlex]

Your sprinter also has 200 more cubic feet of interior volume than the express, and I've always found that stuff expands to fill the space available, whether it's suitcases, cars, or houses. I'm pretty confident I have the discipline necessary to keep any build-out as light as necessary. And from looking around here, there are plenty of examples of successful half-ton Express builds.