Buying & Building a Medium Ambulance into an RV – The FAM-BULANCE
- Thread starter rlrenz
- Start date
rlrenz
Explorer
Good thought. My son stopped by this afternoon, and he suggested putting the propane conversion parts on the shelf (in a labeled box...) in case I decide to go with propane in the future, but leave it as gasoline for now. All it will cost for a gasoline installation will be a used boat tank and some 5 gallon gas cans from a surplus store, so it will be reasonably priced, and fairly fast to install. Propane will take building a propane lift, so it will take a lot more time.
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rlrenz
Explorer
Once I found out that an RV propane refrigerator has to be about 99.95% vertical to work correctly, I went with a 12 volt marine refrigerator. Other than a generator, the only propane use would be for a 1 or 2 burner cook top, and maybe for a water heater in the future (I'm leaning towards a 120 VAC - 750 watt electric marine heater, though). Since it will basically only be running a cook top, a BBQ bottle should last me darn near forever. The whole reason for the gas cook top is to meet a MN licensing requirement for an RV plate.
NEPolarbear
Observer
My general philosophy is to keep it simple, but maintain your flexibility for future modifications.
As a small example, in my build, I am going to have wiring for a refrigerator, but am going to start off with a cooler.
As a small example, in my build, I am going to have wiring for a refrigerator, but am going to start off with a cooler.
patoz
Expedition Leader
I'm going to start with gas, which my Honda 3000 will run all night on it's 3.4 gal. internal tank, and I already have a 14 gal boat tank set up for hurricane use. The Honda has just been a back-up since I have a natural gas fueled 15KW Generac Whole House System, with automatic transfer switch/panel as my primary for the house.
I do all of my cooking outside normally, so I'm not planning on a cooktop inside other than a small microwave and an electric hot plate (i.e NuWave Induction Cooktop or something similar), for that quick snack or rainy day. However, I do want an endless water heater system and possibly a small heater that will run off of propane, so that means two fuel types. Since mine will be a trailer, that seems ridiculous but my tow vehicle is gas so I still have to go to the gas station...
One point in favor of propane is how clean it burns. If you have ever torn down a carburetor that was using propane or natural gas, and compared it to one that has been using gasoline, you'll see a huge difference. No storage problems there either.
I do all of my cooking outside normally, so I'm not planning on a cooktop inside other than a small microwave and an electric hot plate (i.e NuWave Induction Cooktop or something similar), for that quick snack or rainy day. However, I do want an endless water heater system and possibly a small heater that will run off of propane, so that means two fuel types. Since mine will be a trailer, that seems ridiculous but my tow vehicle is gas so I still have to go to the gas station...
One point in favor of propane is how clean it burns. If you have ever torn down a carburetor that was using propane or natural gas, and compared it to one that has been using gasoline, you'll see a huge difference. No storage problems there either.
rlrenz
Explorer
I only buy the non-ethanol gas for all my small engines - it costs more, but without any ethanol, plus a bit of SeaFoam, it will last darn near forever. Every time I've figured out an answer to this question, it comes back as "Yes, but..."
If the Onan I found had been set up for propane as I found it, it wouldn't be a question, but it was set up as a gasser, plus it starts and runs perfectly.
Every day, the answer changes.
rlrenz
Explorer
After chewing on it all for a while, I decided to go with propane. The storage space I'll lose with a propane bottle will be offset by the space I'll gain in the generator cabinet for RV cords, extension cords, etc.
So, now I get to build propane bottle handling equipment. A good winter project, methinks.
So, now I get to build propane bottle handling equipment. A good winter project, methinks.
patoz
Expedition Leader
All kidding aside, I'm seriously considering adding propane, even if it's at a later date. I have a friend (my welder) who has a horizontal tank he got from a small RV of some sort that was salvaged. I don't know what size it is, but it looks very similar to this one.
Since the compartments take up most of the room on the outside of the frame on an ambulance, I'm wondering if this could legally be mounted on the inside of the frame, with a remote fill valve and port mounted in a convenient spot. I've heard you can't do that, but do you have any idea?
Since the compartments take up most of the room on the outside of the frame on an ambulance, I'm wondering if this could legally be mounted on the inside of the frame, with a remote fill valve and port mounted in a convenient spot. I've heard you can't do that, but do you have any idea?
rlrenz
Explorer
Patoz: I think the tank itself has to be accessible when it is filled, so if it's buried somewhere inside the frame, it couldn't be filled. Check with a propane bulk dealer - they should have the answer. Otherwise, BBQ or forklift bottles could possibly be used and maybe installed in a compartment. You'll need to vent the compartment, though.
Joaquin: The forklift bottles are a straightforward solution (particularly with limited headroom), but I have the compartment that used to hold oxygen bottles, and it will easily swallow a standard 100 Lb propane bottle. Since I'm not planning to spend a lot of time off the grid, a 100 Lb bottle will work for me - if necessary, I could also use a 30 Lb RV bottle as a spare.
I have several ideas on how to remove and re-install a full bottle, ranging from an aluminum I beam and a hoist to a fold-out crane operated by a linear actuator. Take a look at what I'll be using - the vertical partition will be removed, and the end result is 6" wider than a 100 Lb bottle. That's one advantage with a Medic Master ambulance - the oxygen cabinets are large enough to also hold back boards, so the cabinet has loads of room. Some makers install much narrower cabinets, and with the requirements of the new ambulance standards (NFPA 1917), oxygen cabinets will be limited to just an oxygen bottle - any backboards will have to be stored somewhere else.
Joaquin: The forklift bottles are a straightforward solution (particularly with limited headroom), but I have the compartment that used to hold oxygen bottles, and it will easily swallow a standard 100 Lb propane bottle. Since I'm not planning to spend a lot of time off the grid, a 100 Lb bottle will work for me - if necessary, I could also use a 30 Lb RV bottle as a spare.
I have several ideas on how to remove and re-install a full bottle, ranging from an aluminum I beam and a hoist to a fold-out crane operated by a linear actuator. Take a look at what I'll be using - the vertical partition will be removed, and the end result is 6" wider than a 100 Lb bottle. That's one advantage with a Medic Master ambulance - the oxygen cabinets are large enough to also hold back boards, so the cabinet has loads of room. Some makers install much narrower cabinets, and with the requirements of the new ambulance standards (NFPA 1917), oxygen cabinets will be limited to just an oxygen bottle - any backboards will have to be stored somewhere else.
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patoz
Expedition Leader
I looked closer at that tank my buddy had and it was an 18 gal., manufactured in 1986, and covered in rust, so I told him I would pass on it.
After thinking about what Joaquin said, and considering mine will be a camper trailer vs. a complete vehicle, I believe removable portable bottles are the way to go for me. It will be a lot easier to grab the bottles and run up to the local store and swap them out, or even take them to a refilling station (if I purchase ones I want to keep), than it would to hook up the rig and tow the whole thing to a refilling station.
I'm even considering a couple of these fiberglass propane tanks, unless I hear some reason not to use them. They're more expensive up front, but half the weight of steel, non-corrosive, will not explode (BLEVE) in a fire, and translucent, so you always know at a glance how full they are.
http://www.vikingcylinders.com/shop/
There has however, been a total recal for all cylinders manufactured by 'The Lite Cylinder Company', but it only affects this company in particular.
http://www.sotar.com/lite-recall.html
http://www.passagemaker.com/article...mposite-gas-tanks-recalled-company-insolvent/
rlrenz
Explorer
I've seen the fiberglass tanks, but never worked with one. You would have to fill them when they run dry versus any kind of a cylinder exchange program - even grocery stores are now exchanging tanks. The GOTTCHA on exchange programs is they charge plenty for propane. Right now, if I fill my BBQ tanks at Tractor Supply by the gallon, they cost about $6 / each less than at a gas station - running the math, a 100 Lb tank would probably run $25-30 difference between a bulk supplier and a gas station.
IMHO, you can always find a steel tank, so maybe you want to have a few fiberglass tanks for regular use, and maybe a few used 20 Lb bottles as spares?
patoz
Expedition Leader
Yeah, that exchange program is a big rip off and what you're paying for is the convenience, and 24 hour availability in a lot of cases. I have weighed some of those cylinders after I got home with them and found less than the required 17 lbs. that they put in a 20 lb. bottle, and claim that's all that will go in there due to the new overfill prevention valves (OPV) assemblies. That's one thing I like about the fiberglass wrapped cylinders, they are clear so what you see is what you get. It's also easy to see what your rate of usage is for a certain appliance if you need to know.
I have several steel cylinders I use around the house and for my grill, so I will have spares for that impromptu midnight camping trip or that last minute evacuation I didn't plan on doing.
I have several steel cylinders I use around the house and for my grill, so I will have spares for that impromptu midnight camping trip or that last minute evacuation I didn't plan on doing.
rlrenz
Explorer
Today, I stashed most of the ambulance parts for the AC system, the 120 VAC system, the generator, etc, in the various compartments. That's one advantage of a medium ambulance - sure it takes up more real estate in your driveway, but at least you have many cubic feet of storage. I even labeled the boxes so I can find things (this after spending 2 hours last weekend searching for a copy paper box of electrical stuff that turned out to be "hidden" on a shelf in the garage). I measured things very carefully, and it looks like the maximum vehicle height is 9'-6" (plus about 1 inch for an antenna base). Since my third bay garage door measures 9'-10 1/2", I won't need ramming speed to park indoors, but I will have to have an 8' x 25' path. Goodwill is coming out ahead this week - "when in doubt, it goes out..." They inherited a supplied air respirator (head piece only), some old hand tools, some cement finishing tools, and other items representing joyful activities that I don't care for (cement finishing comes to mind...).
As you may recall, I spent a long time debating propane versus gasoline for the generator - propane won out. My friend MNtal recommended a 100 Lb propane tank - I saw him pick up a full one (170 Lbs gross wt) and carry it off. Since he's less than half my age, I won't regard picking up a 170 Lb tank as appropriate behavior / exercise for myself, though. I had been doodling out a propane hoist that was both capable and logical. The final design worked out to be a pivoting 3" aluminum I beam with a surplus 250 Lb hoist. The end result oozed KISS is all directions. I was at Tractor Supply today admiring the Carhardt 2014 winter-wear line when I saw their fall display of propane tanks, and I noticed some 40 Lb tanks.
Lets see - two 40's would equal 80 Lbs of propane, and a full 40 Lb tank weighs about 70 Lbs, so 1-2 people could fairly readily boost one 18" up into the cabinet. A 40 Lb bottle measures about 30" tall, and with a 72" high cabinet, there's still loads of storage space above the tanks.
Now for the reality check: a 40 Lb propane bottle measures 12.25" in diameter, so two bottles would require a space at least 24.5" wide. My tape measure showed me that if I removed the vertical partition in the old oxygen cabinet, I would have a space 26.5" wide. EUREKA!!
I can readily hold two 40 Lb tanks side by side, and I won't need to build a propane cylinder hoist (another advantage of Medic-Master's roomy oxygen cabinets). Since the generator (rescue equipment) compartment and the propane (oxygen) compartment are side by side, this all got a whole lot easier.
As you may recall, I spent a long time debating propane versus gasoline for the generator - propane won out. My friend MNtal recommended a 100 Lb propane tank - I saw him pick up a full one (170 Lbs gross wt) and carry it off. Since he's less than half my age, I won't regard picking up a 170 Lb tank as appropriate behavior / exercise for myself, though. I had been doodling out a propane hoist that was both capable and logical. The final design worked out to be a pivoting 3" aluminum I beam with a surplus 250 Lb hoist. The end result oozed KISS is all directions. I was at Tractor Supply today admiring the Carhardt 2014 winter-wear line when I saw their fall display of propane tanks, and I noticed some 40 Lb tanks.
Lets see - two 40's would equal 80 Lbs of propane, and a full 40 Lb tank weighs about 70 Lbs, so 1-2 people could fairly readily boost one 18" up into the cabinet. A 40 Lb bottle measures about 30" tall, and with a 72" high cabinet, there's still loads of storage space above the tanks.
Now for the reality check: a 40 Lb propane bottle measures 12.25" in diameter, so two bottles would require a space at least 24.5" wide. My tape measure showed me that if I removed the vertical partition in the old oxygen cabinet, I would have a space 26.5" wide. EUREKA!!
I can readily hold two 40 Lb tanks side by side, and I won't need to build a propane cylinder hoist (another advantage of Medic-Master's roomy oxygen cabinets). Since the generator (rescue equipment) compartment and the propane (oxygen) compartment are side by side, this all got a whole lot easier.