Buying & Building a Medium Ambulance into an RV – The FAM-BULANCE

[patoz]

Riv nut tool: I bought mine from Grainger, but McMaster and Amazon would probably have comparable tools. I have two of them - one is a Marson hand tool for close quarters, and the other is a large Marson for larger Riv-Nuts. The McMaster part number is 95603A770 (www.mcmaster.com), and I see that Amazon has pages of them, probably with many being imports. Regardless of who the manufacturer is, be sure that you can get different sized mandrels if they aren't included with the tool - I have mandrels from 10-32 to 3/8".

I ordered the Marson 325_RN Heavy Duty & Professional Rivet Nut Tool from McMaster yesterday morning at 9:11 AM, and UPS showed up with it today at 12:30 PM. Now that is some fast shipping...as good as Amazon Prime's overnight shipping.

It came with a 1/4"-20 mandrel, and I ordered the 10-24, 10-32, 5/16"-10, and 3/8"-16 mandrel sets to go with it. I also ordered two different length 1/4'-20 Aluminum Heavy-Duty Rivet Nuts.

Now, I need to buy myself a really good complete set of drill bits. Some of those riv-nuts require hole sizes that don't come in your average Home Depot or Lowe's sets.

 

[rlrenz]

A handy trick is to use a step taper drill bit to get to an undersized hole, then a quick pass with the right sized bit. The step tapered bits drill a nicely round hole, so you have a good starting point. Sacrifice a few Riv-Nuts to see how they work - the knurled ones are a lot less likely to spin on you. Regardless, a dab of epoxy on the edges will also help. I've run into some cheap Riv-Nuts that are so crummy that the threads pulled out before the end expanded, but these were just the standard smooth exterior nuts, and probably a product of China.

Unfortunately, Marson writes amazingly complicated instructions for their tools. If you read and try for a while, you'll figure their tool out, but the tool without instructions can drive you nuts. I scanned my instructions into my computer because I knew I would forget where I put them.

If you use an open-end Riv-Nut on the exterior, a dab of Silicone under the bolt head fill take care of things pretty well.

With you being in FL, check the MIL surplus stores - the aircraft guys use Riv-Nuts, and they may show up surplus from time to time.

Marson also makes a hand Riv-Nut tool that looks like a Pop-rivet tool. I have one, but I prefer the larger one that looks a little like a bolt cutter instead. There are also various hand wrench-operated versions that will also do the job, particularly in one of those nearly impossible locations that seem to happen on every job.

 

[rlrenz]

Battery chargers can drive you nuts. Which will do the job without turning your batteries into crispy-critters? I have an elderly Dayton 6-12-24 volt charger left over from my Army truck restoration days, but there's no way that I'd take a chance with this on a $125 battery for more than a few hours. I had thought that I had found a solution, but the brand seemed to have as many people who loved it as people who definitely didn't love it. I wound up with an IOTA battery charger. Virtually every review I found was positive, and their design is set up for 4-step charging (Bulk, absorption, float, and equalization). I purchased a 75 amp version to I'll have more 12 volt power available than I did with the 55 amp output of my existing Vanner inverter/charger.

Here are the stages from the IOTA, with the details:

BULK STAGE
The Bulk Stage allows the batteries to be charged from the full rated output of the charger (for example, a 12V charger will charge at a maximum of 14.8V). This increased charging period reduces the overall charging time of the battery.

ABSORPTION STAGE
After the Bulk Stage, the charger then moves to the Absorption Stage (14.2V for a 12V battery). This mode will continue for up to 480 minutes (8 hours) to ensure that the battery receives a complete charge.

FLOAT STAGE
During the Float Stage, the charger reduces the charge voltage. This reduced voltage maintains the full charge while minimizing 'gassing' of the battery. The charger's float stage prevents boiling and bulging of the battery caused when the battery is exposed to higher charging voltages for too long.

EQUALIZATION STAGE
If the batteries remain in a "float stage" for a seven-day period, the charger will switch into a pre-programmed Equalization Stage. This protects the life of your battery by dissolving any sulfate layer on the battery's internal plates and avoids stratification that can occur when a battery has not been in use for extended periods.

It just arrived last week, so I've only had a chance to open the box and take a look-see, but it will be one of my first installations once the weather becomes more humane than it is right now.

 

[patoz]

I sold the Toyota yesterday, so I'm hoping to get back to work on the trailer tomorrow and I'll make a couple of Riv-Nut test installs then. You emailed me the instructions for the tool, so that part is already done. Thanks!

The auto detailer I hired to do the Toyota did such a great job, I'm going to get him back to do my F250 also. While he was here, I got him to buff out a 18" x 18" test spot on the rear of the body. I didn't think it would do much, but surprisingly it put a very nice shine on it.

The DOT guys that removed the decal lettering used straight edge razor blades, and put a bunch of deep gouges in the paint all the way down to bare metal and pretty much ruined the paint job. However, I may try to fill the bad spots with some white paint and get him to buff it out anyway, just as a short term fix. Then when I'm through drilling holes in it and moving things around, I'll get the whole thing repainted.

Since you already have an inverter, I guess that's why you're going with a separate battery charger, right? I haven't decided yet to go that route, or get an inverter with the battery charger and converter built in. There are pros and cons to both systems. Any thoughts considering my setup?

 

[rlrenz]

Because I bought a refurbished ambulance, it was literally ready to go back into service, and it came with a new Vanner inverter / charger. I'm disconnecting the charger portion of the Vanner, and I'll just use the Iota charger. The Vanner could be reconnected if necessary, but I don't plan to use it for charging. When you look at chargers / inverters, check the reviews carefully - the brand I had been thinking about turns out to be a throw-away design. They make repairable designs, but at a lot more money. Check the marine discussion groups - that's where I found out about the Iota's reputation.

The Iota has a 4-stage charging function, so it can handle battery maintenance as well as charging. The Vanner does not.

 

[patoz]

the brand I had been thinking about turns out to be a throw-away design

Which brand was this? I want to make sure I don't end up with one.

I looked at the Iota last night, and the only thing I didn't like was the absence of any kind of remote panel to show you exactly what it's doing. I checked several websites and didn't find anything offered, but I may have missed it somewhere.

 

[rlrenz]

Iota doesn't have a remote panel - I didn't like it at first, but maybe a lot of what a remote panel can do isn't needed? The many positive reviews say a lot to me.

The brand I decided not to go with is Xantrex. I had two of their new TrueCharge-2 40 amp units. One I had purchased new, and one was new, but surplus to an ambulance dealer. I returned the new one, and decided to keep the surplus unit for my deep cycle battery. I was going to use a Xantrex remote panel to link them in parallel.

Check the on-line reviews -- as many seem to swear at as swear by, and you'll see why I'm hesitant. Don't just check the TrueCharge-2 40 amp, check the others in the same series, and you'll see some 5 star, but also 3 star and 1 star. Iota has some bad reviews, too - but most appear to be very positive.

One of my ambulance electrician friends told me that they have a handtruck with a battery, an Iota 75 amp charger, and two leads that they use when they work on an ambulance that doesn't have batteries - he told me that it leads a very far from pampered life, and it has run just fine.

Iota has a pretty good reputation for customer service, while Xantrex seems to have a fairly lousy reputation. Iota also does repair on units, while Xantrex apparently won't do anything to a unit that's out of warranty.

Lets face it -- it's a coin toss, kinda like Ford/Chevy.

I have a new Iota for the main batteries, and the new surplus Xantrex I'm going to use for the deep cycle, so time will tell.

 

[patoz]

OK, I will. Thanks.

My biggest fear of the 'all-in-one' unit is, when one function quits working you loose everything while it's being repaired...or worse yet replacing everything. At first I thought that was the way to go, but now I'm leaning more towards separate units.

The combination units have safety features built in like the automatic transfer switch with lockout function, but I'll be the only one operating this equipment and if I design and build it, I'm sure I can operate it safely.

 

[rlrenz]

I've heard of folks buying a combined charger/inverter from one of the marine dealers (West Marine??), but buying the extended warranty at the same time. Otherwise, the Vanner inverter looks as solid as a rock, and it is repairable by Vanner, plus they have many approved repair shops. I've just heard poor things about their charger cooking batteries into little crispy critters if it is continually plugged in. Vanner makes larger units, but right now, I have a 1000 watt inverter. Since this pulls about 100 amps of 12 volt, I plan to stick with what I have - 1000 watts. Anything else, and I'll use the on-board Onan generator and its 4 kW output.

What I've been looking for is a solid, decent, charger. About 75-80 amps output, and a charger that is kind to expensive batteries. I am not convinced that the Xantrex is the right choice, but I'm also not convinced that Iota is the right choice, either. I do know that I've seen very few negative reports on Iota, and quite a few on Xantrex. The Xantrex lack of good customer support also comes in for many grumbles. I will have the advantage that if the Iota dies, I can always fall back on the Vanner while I'm figuring out what to do next.

 

[rlrenz]

I'm back from the nearly dead. My arthritis reached the point that it was time for some personal shop time, so I got a new hip. Recovery will take until early May for nearly-normal mobility, but 3 weeks after slicing and dicing, I made it up to my second floor office. My garage is full of ambulance projects, and about the same time that spring happens, I should be able to work on things.

I hadn't realized how limited my movements were becoming until I had the surgery.

Stay warm, my friends.

 

[patoz]

Wow, I'm sorry to hear that, and glad at the same time because you got it fixed. You'll be good as new soon, and I'm looking forward to seeing more of your completed projects and expert advice!

At the rate my lower back is deteriorating, I'm going to have to finally say, "Uncle" and have something drastic done. I've tried all of the exercises, chiropractors, therapy, nerve blocker drugs, and even have an inversion table which helps some, but it's all just temporary and short term at that. I've been evaluated for surgery, but was told it would eliminate the pain but limit my movement even more due to the two titanium pins they would have to put in. I'm thinking about investigating the Laser Surgery I keep seeing advertised.

 

[bobrenz]

A friend of mine had stood behind a pharmacist counter for 40 years, and his back was shot. He tried just about everything, then the only option left was surgery, but no surgeon wanted to take the risk. Finally, the U of MN hospital said they were willing to try. He was told that there was a 70 percent chance of improvement, a 20 percent chance of no change, and a 5 percent chance of paralysis. He went with the surgery last spring, and came out 100 percent better - he called me today from the Daytona 500 to say Hi.

Never give up hope, my friend!

 

[patoz]

Thanks Bob, it's that 5 percent chance of paralysis that worries me. I had a friend who had the surgery, and he lost partial function of certain 'parts' of his anatomy.

 

[Abitibi]

I'm back from the nearly dead. My arthritis reached the point that it was time for some personal shop time, so I got a new hip. Recovery will take until early May for nearly-normal mobility, but 3 weeks after slicing and dicing, I made it up to my second floor office. My garage is full of ambulance projects, and about the same time that spring happens, I should be able to work on things.

I hadn't realized how limited my movements were becoming until I had the surgery.

Stay warm, my friends.

Makes two of us, just had surgery on my right shoulder, have tons of Ambo part and projects to work on but I'm not allowed to even look at them for a few months if not longer. :-(

Good luck with the recovery!
Mr. D

 

[rlrenz]

It sounds like we are all at about the same point in our lives - just be thankful that we have options other than wheelchairs. Surgery is scary, but when it's over, life is better. Now that I've been overhauled, I find more and more people I talk to have also had replacement surgery.

In other news, I have a garage full of parts waiting for both me and spring - long about mid-March, I'll start posting some photos of my upcoming projects -- the 120 volt water heater, the Onan generator, new battery chargers, etc.

For now, though, stay warm, my friends.