Buying expedition car; Land Rover Defender or Toyota Land Cruiser?

[chroxy]

Hi all!

I hope this thread/topic is in the right forum!

I'm Nick, Dutch and in my late twenties. I've never owned (or needed) a car, but after a few road trips (with rented vehicles) through Africa and Asia, i knew i wanted to overland. My planned destination is through Russia towards Central Asia and then go south towards SE Asia, and after that i'll see where i end up.

My biggest question now; which car should i buy? There are lots of options but my 2 main options are a Land Rover Defender 110 or a Land Cruiser HZJ78. I'm leaning towards the Land Rover since they're better available in the Nederlands. Can you guys help? What are the pros and cons of the LR versus the LC. And in case of a Land Rover, TD5 or 200/300tdi engine, or something else? Where should i be carefull of, or what should i look for in the car?

Thanks!
Nick

 

[tuesdayfox]

I have a puma defender 110 MY13. And I love it. But my suggestion will be go LC. I really enjoyed my defender but again I have also quite enjoyed spending time under the bonnet/chassis fixing her myself. If you will not enjoy doing/learning mechanical works yourself, land Rover will be a nightmare for you. While if you buy a Land Cruiser, very likely by the time you finish your adventure, you have not open the bonnet

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[tuesdayfox]

That said I love mine, although she gave me many headaches and I am constantly worried about the potentially worn adaptor shaft (which is a known problem for 30 yrs, still Land Rover manage to engineer this fault into the latest, last generation of defender ). I will be doing my overland trip within five years in my defender and by the time I start, I should be able to do most repirs roadside and have replaced majority of the **** parts from Solihull. So to sum it up, a defender is great if you want to bond with your vehicle because of your effort, sweat and swears. While a Toyota is a reliable tool to get you to your destination. Just my 2 cents

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[Moriean]

It really depends on your budget and how much time you want to spend preparing it.

I am Dutch myself and personally I would opt from the Land Rover if you're buying in the Netherlands. LR vs LC has always been a debate but keep in mind that the North American situation is different. Land Rovers there are imported vehicles over 25 years old.

Here, simply put a good condition LR is significantly cheaper than a LC and frankly easier to find. A good and running Defender starts at 10k'ish and with every euro spent about that you get a better maintained vehicle. The LC FZJ is hard to find and you may end up spending 20k or more on one. For that you'll get a reliable well maintained vehicle but it's expensive.

If I have to choose between a Defender and money left to make sure it's in great shape or a LC on the lower end of the price spectrum I'd pick Defender. If you have the money to buy a LC that's in great shape then that's slightly more reliable in all honesty.

I myself own a LR and make sure it's in great shape before we use it for trips. When you do that it is a reliable vehicle. Not to mention a lot cooler

 

[MLu]

For the price of a good 70-series troopie, you'll probably get a low-milage 110 with all the expedition stuff you want and money left over to have a professional go over it with a fine-tooth comb. Either way you'll end up with a brilliant vehicle. Both the 70-series and the 110 are pretty rare vehicles where you're going, so factor in waiting for spares if something does go wrong, but you're probably not in a hurry.

Personally, I would probably go for a later model 110 with the so-called "puma" engine. It's the same engine as they use in the Ford Transit vans, considered pretty much bulletproof. That being said, both the older tdi and the TD5 are good engines. It's not going to be the engine that has you stranded. The tdi models are getting pretty old, though.

There are plenty of both 110 and troopies for sale on the likes of mobile.de with tens of thousands spent on lifting roofs and custom-built interiors that go for significantly less than it costs to build it up to spec yourself, that's where I would start.

 

[A.J.M]

Have you driven a Defender?
Having driven several, done lots of off road trips around Scotland and the UK in them.
I would NEVER use one for far distance driving as they are hopeless for it.

We went from Glasgow to Peterborough for the September Land Rover show. I took my Disco3 as I only have 1 landy.
My mates who own D3/4s and Defenders all took.... Thr Discos.

I would go either Cruiser, or a Discovery. Far better road manners, quieter, likely more economical and bigger for space inside for kit.
Personally, my D3 will be going overland to Africa next year, I have no concern for it not making it or struggling for off road ability.
It's bigger, comfy, reliable and I know it, what's been done, the standard of parts and how it reacts in environments.

Lots of the routes are either roads, or tracks that a D3 can master in comfort.

 

[DiscoDavis]

Have you driven a Defender?
Having driven several, done lots of off road trips around Scotland and the UK in them.
I would NEVER use one for far distance driving as they are hopeless for it.

We went from Glasgow to Peterborough for the September Land Rover show. I took my Disco3 as I only have 1 landy.
My mates who own D3/4s and Defenders all took.... Thr Discos.

I would go either Cruiser, or a Discovery. Far better road manners, quieter, likely more economical and bigger for space inside for kit.
Personally, my D3 will be going overland to Africa next year, I have no concern for it not making it or struggling for off road ability.
It's bigger, comfy, reliable and I know it, what's been done, the standard of parts and how it reacts in environments.

Lots of the routes are either roads, or tracks that a D3 can master in comfort.

You bring up a good question. Lets say you were driving through Russia though, would you still use your disco? This I wonder about, do I bring a NAS D3 overseas or start planning a defender based in Europe?

 

[A.J.M]

Yup. Without question. I see no issues with mine for going there. It's a good D3 and has almost all the weak points addressed, the rest are about to be sorted in the next few months.

Next October, I'm going to Morocco for 3 weeks in it. Crossing over the Atlas mountains and going WAY off the grid of usual path with a lot of other landy's.

For most of Europe and even Africa, there are plenty of good roads, but also gravel tracks and such. Plenty of people overland D3/4s in Africa and Australia. They aren't the scary issue that people make out. 2 batteries, decent split charger and an IID tool with ipad/iphone will keep it fine.

I'm not hating on Defender's, i've been in plenty to know the strengths and weaknesses.
ALL bar one of my mates have changed the seats from the originals, as they are terrible. Mixture of RX8, Saab Turbo, J**p Grand Cherokee. Extra sound deadening throughout, upgraded ventilation, lights, changed transfer boxes from the 1.2 to the 1.4 from a Discovery to shut it up a bit.
They are fantastic off road, but aren't comfy for long distance travel.

If you can get your NAS D3 over to the UK for next October, you can come along as well. Buy in cost for my car with 3 people in it is £500. All of which is going on solar panels, water pumps etc, for the off grid communities we will be visiting to help. Will also have 5 days of desert driving so you will need to be self sustainable for those 5 days.

 

[Miepme]

He Nik! Ik en m'n nichtje hadden dezelfde vraag dus bedankt voor je initiatief. Heb je iets van fb of instagram waar we je kunnen volgen?
Wij willen over een jaar een wereldreis gaan maken met een van deze auto's over land. We zouden graag jouw ervaringen willen volgen ook mbt je voorbereidingen .

Groetjes! Loes

 

[The Yak]

Another consideration is parts supply. Yes, a Toyota is less likely to need a part but if it does, how long does it take to locate one and get it flown to some obscure location? I do not know a quantified answer.

But what I do know is that with Land Rover parts the likes of UK based John Craddock or Paddocks can immediately supply a part off the shelf and fly it via the likes of DHL to almost anywhere in the world. They do it regularly! Yes, that says something about Land Rover reliability but at least you need not the stranded for long!

It reminds me of that old story (probably not true but it illustrates the point) of a Land Rover Defender driver in the Australian outback. He arrives by a creek to spend the night and there is a Toyota Driver parked up. The Toyota Driver greets the Defender driver saying that these Defenders are unreliable things. The Defender driver asks the Toyota driver how long has he been parked there. He replies that he has been there two weeks, waiting for a part for his Toyota. The next morning the 'unreliable' Defender starts up and drives off to continue its expedition leaving the Toyota driver still waiting for the part and oblivious to the irony of the situation!

As I said, probably just a story but being a Defender driver I love it! Whilst I agree with most of the comments regarding Toyotas and their better reliability, if I ever conceded to buy a Toyota I will still have a Defender for serious use.

 

[Tembo]

Like The Yak, I presume the originator has already made his choice of a vehicle, but in case anyone out there reads this I thought I would put in my two cents. There are probably few arguments in the 4x4 overland community than the Land Rover versus Toyota one. I will state clearly that I come down on the Land Rover side. To get there, I will say I started with Jeeps growing up, owned a old FJ40 LC which was as tough as any truck ever built and finally settled on Land Rover after ten years working with mining companies and aid organizations in Africa. I ran fleets of 4x4s including Defenders (200-300 Tdi's mostly) and Toyotas (Hilux, LC 70 and LC 100). I found that the Land Rovers were cheaper to run overall. They did break down more often but were much easier and cheaper to repair. The Toyota's were slightly more reliable (they do break just like any other truck regardless of the myth of utter reliability) but much harder to get parts for and significantly more expensive parts at that. The one advantage of the Defender is that many parts will fit everything from an 1985 right up to very late models. Toyota on the other hand subtly changes parts every year so that they will only fit on that model year. So it becomes much harder in the back end of nowhere to find the right part. I have never owned a Disco, but I would certainly take that over a Toyota. Currently I run a 1986 ex-military 110 with a reconditioned 200Tdi. It has made three trips to the Sahara desert and back and never let me down. Soon it will be taking me to other continents as well. I am definitely no mechanic but I wouldn't want to travel in anything else. As I say, my two cents in the never-ending discussion...