pugslyyy
Expedition Vehicle Engineer Guy
We currently install Webasto Dual Tops but are looking at going to a separate air heater / coolant heater instead of an integrated unit. The Dual Top is a very finicky install for sure.
Camper for the Cold
- Thread starter Alloy
- Start date
Victorian
Approved Vendor : Total Composites
Yep that is what a lot of other outfitters doing as well.
AeroNautiCal
Explorer
The Russian made Planar Diesel Heater is a superb piece of kit made by the 3rd largest diesel heater manufacturer in the world!
Planar like to design and manufacture everything in house and I believe that they actually make about 99% of the heater components in house rather than out source it.
Victorian
Approved Vendor : Total Composites
You are correct. They make everything in house. Because of that they can trace every component, repair, improve as needed.
kevin_j
Member
This is a great thread! Starting in February I took my trailer on a bit of a ski tour. I'm going to use two places that kinda contrast each other as each had it's own challenges. My trailer didn't have underbelly insulation or heated tanks, so I drained everything and ran it dry. It does have wall and ceiling insulation, a 15K BTU forced air propane heater, and cassette toilet. For water I was running four 5 gallon Jerry cans with a Whaler hand pump. I also upgraded the propane tanks to two 30Lb cylinders.
The first spot was in Moab to do some ski touring in the La Sal's. It was regularly below or at freezing during the day and dropping into the teens (F°) at night. The furnace being forced air helped to keep the air dry and the trailer, like most trailers is not super air tight so we didn't experience any interior condensation. The heater ran about every 10 minutes or so and kept the interior at 60°F easily. At that point I was making it about 10 days on a cylinder.
A few weeks later I moved up to Crystal Mountain WA which sits at about 4500 ft on the north side of Mt. Rainier. Although the temps rarely made it below 20°F, the condensation was pretty massive in that climate. Keeping all of the locker doors open and making sure that nothing stored in them was leaning against an exterior wall became critical. As mentioned a bunch of times in this thread, keeping a window cracked at one end of the trailer and a roof vent at the other was the trick. In this case the furnace was running about every ten minutes. One 30Lb cylinder was lasting about 7 days in that climate.
I want to lean on the most important bit here. Although propane was a concern, battery capacity was the bigger ordeal. I was running 400 AH of Gel VRLA batteries and was using up to 140AH per day in some cases. The vast majority of that was my compressor fridge and the heater. Because the fridge isn't pulling colder air in from outside, it fights the heater. During my time around Mt. Rainer I was on electric hookups for ten days, then did 16 days in the forest with very little to no solar. I basically had to run the generator daily. Very very few campers/trailers come with an adequate amount of battery capacity so we have to keep that in mind.
As a comparison.... While I was up in the PNW, I was waiting for my new Northern Lite 8-11 TC to arrive from Canada. Right after taking delivery, I moved my gear then installed 200AH of ReLion "LT" series batteries, upgraded the AC-DC charger, and installed a Victron MPPT solar controller and BMS. The difference is DRASTIC! Granted the power setup is awesome, but that's not the major standout for me. It's how efficient everything runs in a more air tight and insulated package. So far I've had the TC in 14° F temps for multiple days. The heater runs about every 25 minutes and for a very short run time. I'm going through a 20Lb cylinder every 7 days and that's with the additional load of the propane fridge. As for power usage, I'm at about 18AH per day! It's crazy!! It's also really nice to not have freezing feet all the time as the basement is heated
I've also been running the water system with zero issues this entire time.
The only other major change I want to make is the heater. I'm definitely going to a Planar forced air heater. I may at some point replace the propane water heater with the smaller Planar hydronic to add further heat to the basement and plenum spaces possibly adding a backup air heat exchanger.
In sum, whatever you do make sure your unit is heavily insulated and that your running a power system with an appropriate amount of capacity.
P.S.
I saw someone mention that the Northern Lite only has 1" of insulation. That is true, but it is R7 versus R6 in Bigfoot 2500 and the cab over has 2" of R7 on the bottom. I researched and took hard looks at the Bigfoot 1500 and 2500 and the Northern Lite 8-11 and 9-6. Both are AWESOME companies and make great products. IMHO if you can handle the extreme weight and dimensions of the BF 2500, that is the best TC as far cold weather goes. I just can't see hauling that puppy on anything but a dually. The NL Sportsmen with some options stripped out is a great compromise between size, weight, and cold weather durability.
The first spot was in Moab to do some ski touring in the La Sal's. It was regularly below or at freezing during the day and dropping into the teens (F°) at night. The furnace being forced air helped to keep the air dry and the trailer, like most trailers is not super air tight so we didn't experience any interior condensation. The heater ran about every 10 minutes or so and kept the interior at 60°F easily. At that point I was making it about 10 days on a cylinder.
A few weeks later I moved up to Crystal Mountain WA which sits at about 4500 ft on the north side of Mt. Rainier. Although the temps rarely made it below 20°F, the condensation was pretty massive in that climate. Keeping all of the locker doors open and making sure that nothing stored in them was leaning against an exterior wall became critical. As mentioned a bunch of times in this thread, keeping a window cracked at one end of the trailer and a roof vent at the other was the trick. In this case the furnace was running about every ten minutes. One 30Lb cylinder was lasting about 7 days in that climate.
I want to lean on the most important bit here. Although propane was a concern, battery capacity was the bigger ordeal. I was running 400 AH of Gel VRLA batteries and was using up to 140AH per day in some cases. The vast majority of that was my compressor fridge and the heater. Because the fridge isn't pulling colder air in from outside, it fights the heater. During my time around Mt. Rainer I was on electric hookups for ten days, then did 16 days in the forest with very little to no solar. I basically had to run the generator daily. Very very few campers/trailers come with an adequate amount of battery capacity so we have to keep that in mind.
As a comparison.... While I was up in the PNW, I was waiting for my new Northern Lite 8-11 TC to arrive from Canada. Right after taking delivery, I moved my gear then installed 200AH of ReLion "LT" series batteries, upgraded the AC-DC charger, and installed a Victron MPPT solar controller and BMS. The difference is DRASTIC! Granted the power setup is awesome, but that's not the major standout for me. It's how efficient everything runs in a more air tight and insulated package. So far I've had the TC in 14° F temps for multiple days. The heater runs about every 25 minutes and for a very short run time. I'm going through a 20Lb cylinder every 7 days and that's with the additional load of the propane fridge. As for power usage, I'm at about 18AH per day! It's crazy!! It's also really nice to not have freezing feet all the time as the basement is heated
I've also been running the water system with zero issues this entire time. The only other major change I want to make is the heater. I'm definitely going to a Planar forced air heater. I may at some point replace the propane water heater with the smaller Planar hydronic to add further heat to the basement and plenum spaces possibly adding a backup air heat exchanger.
In sum, whatever you do make sure your unit is heavily insulated and that your running a power system with an appropriate amount of capacity.
P.S.
I saw someone mention that the Northern Lite only has 1" of insulation. That is true, but it is R7 versus R6 in Bigfoot 2500 and the cab over has 2" of R7 on the bottom. I researched and took hard looks at the Bigfoot 1500 and 2500 and the Northern Lite 8-11 and 9-6. Both are AWESOME companies and make great products. IMHO if you can handle the extreme weight and dimensions of the BF 2500, that is the best TC as far cold weather goes. I just can't see hauling that puppy on anything but a dually. The NL Sportsmen with some options stripped out is a great compromise between size, weight, and cold weather durability.
Photomike
White Turtle Adventures & Photography
As a comparison.... While I was up in the PNW, I was waiting for my new Northern Lite 8-11 TC to arrive from Canada. Right after taking delivery, I moved my gear then installed 200AH of ReLion "LT" series batteries, upgraded the AC-DC charger, and installed a Victron MPPT solar controller and BMS. The difference is DRASTIC! Granted the power setup is awesome, but that's not the major standout for me. It's how efficient everything runs in a more air tight and insulated package. So far I've had the TC in 14° F temps for multiple days. The heater runs about every 25 minutes and for a very short run time. I'm going through a 20Lb cylinder every 7 days and that's with the additional load of the propane fridge. As for power usage, I'm at about 18AH per day! It's crazy!! It's also really nice to not have freezing feet all the time as the basement is heated
GREAT info!!
When I had my truck camper I would shut the fridge off for the winter and insulate the backside to help keep the camper warmer. Then I thought would it not make more sense to pull the fridge and completely insulate around the fridge so it is cut off from the heat of the camper then leave the backside vents as they usually are. The cold of the outside would help to keep the fridge cold. May not be enough to cool the freezer but would eliminate a lot of running to keep the fridge cool.
I have also read a number of posts that a propane fridge should not be run below freezing. I never researched it more then just skimming the articles that I found but you may want to look into that.
I have since built a van with a 12v fridge and love it. Only issue I found this year is that the heat duct is below the fridge so when it is really cold the furnace is heating the fridge. Once it warms up I will insulate the heat duct to stop this.