Can someone smarter than me please explain…

skrypj

Well-known member
You need to think bigger. Vehicles will become more specialized persay.

If you want a long distance tow rig the options will likely be very similar to the current hybrid F150 only in different load rated rigs 1/2 ton 3/4, 1 ton etc.

If you need a truck but don’t need to drag a trailer long distances full EV etc.

A very small % of vehicles travel long distances. Most vehicles only travel 30 miles a day or less average. So the Hybrids cinderella combo is EV power that gives smaller more fuel efficient engines power to do heavy work yet can just about cover the 30 mile ish daily average range in EV only mode etc. My heavy tow Expedition would see a 2-3x bump in average fuel mileage if it had this combo, yet I could still do long distance hauls with it.

i edited my post while you reponded.

But to your point, if everyone if drivng 30 miles a day or less(which is fairly true for me) then stop putting 137 kwh batteries in these EV trucks and use the saved weight for a range extender and gas tank. The batteries have poor energy density and add a tremendous amount of weigh over an equivalent ICE truck. The Rivian is north of 7000 lbs for a nearly mid sized truck and the Lightning is pushing 7000 lbs. The Hummer is 9500 lbs because they needed to stuff a 200 kwh battery in it to make it not suck. You know what I could do with 4000 lbs of saved weight ?

Give me a battery that can get me through 99% of my daily driving needs and back it up with a range extender to give me the truck capabilities i need.

There are tangible benefits to an electric powertrain over a hybrid which is why id rather have the ev/range extender option.
 
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calicamper

Expedition Leader
i edited my post while you reponded.

But to your point, if everyone if drivng 30 miles a day or less(which is fairly true for me) then stop putting 137 kwh batteries in these EV trucks and use the saved weight for a range extender and gas tank. The batteries have poor energy density and add a tremendous amount of weigh over an equivalent ICE truck.


You missed my last post

The hybrid and the full EV are for different users. Nissan learned the hard way that the average 30 ish mile daily use needs more battery than 60 mile range. No different than Toyota realizing a 12 gallon fuel tank in a Tacoma won’t work.

The EVs that work really well for EV use need real range of 200 miles. Why? Simple my neighbors dad had to evacuate his house on Friday he knew he could and knew he could drive his EV here with no issues. He makes that trip like once a yr typically. He would have never bought a EV if he couldn’t drive “if he had to” out of the area.

My other neighbor drives his EV once a month to his cabin 150 miles away works great. The rest of the time he hardly drives 20 miles a week.

Its not either or… But you definitely seem fixated on making it either or but want your vehicle to be “all whatever”

Battery technology has changed massively in the past 20 years and its only just getting started. Comparing batteries to the 110 yrs of billions spent developing ICE power is pretty silly. Its like complaining that a 3 month old child can’t play Basketball like Lebron James.
 

crazysccrmd

Observer
A range extender would need to provide at least 11.5kwh charge rate to be useful in my opinion. Using my R1T as an example with a highway efficiency of roughly 2.2mi/kwh at 70mph I would use 70% of the 125kwh pack to cover a distance of 193 miles in 2.75hours. The range extender would add an additional 32kwh and 70 miles of range to the battery in that time. To do that only needs a smallish generator and fuel tank.
 

Johstacy

New member
I disagree. The beauty of a range extender is that you could cut the battery size in half and still have a very functional range. So say we cut the Rivians 137 kwh battery in half to a 70 kwh battery. Its half the size and weight. 70 kwh is only equivalent to like 2 gallons of gasoline. To recharge that battery completely would only require like 5 gallons assuming the gas engine only had 40% thermal efficiency.

You could recharge that battery in about 1 hour running a 100 hp engine. Thats a large generator, but its very small as far as modern car engines go. You could do that with a 2 cylinder 1L turbo engine that is purpose built to operate at one load and ultra efficient.

The 1000 lbs of battery weigh you save is enough to cover the small engine and alternator and gasoline.

The only time you use that generator is if you exceed the 150 mile battery range you get from the smaller battery. That would cover 99% of peoples daily driving requirement and the ice would only need to jump in on longer trips or if you were to use a truck to tow more than 10 feet.

At the end of the day, the Rivian is a 7500 lb truck because it has like 2000 lbs of battery in it that achieve the same range as 10-15 gallons(60-90 lbs) of gasoline in a 5000 lb ice truck. Batteries suck at energy density. If you need sustained high output, gas/diesel is the only way.

The only way an EV truck will ever replace my ICE truck is if they somehow triple the battery range without making it 15000 lbs, or they add a range extender to make the towing range reasonable. Id love an EV truck but I need the truck to be able to tow more than 90 miles with a 2 hour charge time if I dont find a charge putting out 150 kw

This is not the case I have a 6500Wh Generator with a 220v 30a outlet I get about 5 to 8 miles an hour from that when I am charging. Also not all generators work you have to get an inverter generator or the vehicle will refuse to charge.

Electricity production from a gallon of gas based off of BTU burn is 33.7kWh but that doesn't map 1 to 1 when you talk about charging an EV. Because our engines are not efficient the fuel burn to power production is far far less.

Who's trying to replace your ICE truck?
 

crazysccrmd

Observer
This is not the case I have a 6500Wh Generator with a 220v 30a outlet I get about 5 to 8 miles an hour from that when I am charging.

That’s a lot lower charge rate then you should be seeing. You should be able to get at least a 5kwh charge rate from that size generator if the 30amp plug is set to 220v.
 

Johstacy

New member
That’s a lot lower charge rate then you should be seeing. You should be able to get at least a 5kwh charge rate from that size generator if the 30amp plug is set to 220v.

you would think however even if I got double that I would still overcome the charge rate in less than an hour of driving.
 

3laine

New member
You assume I was referring to the USA which I wasn't. Even if the USA manages to go 100% renewable (which it won't) it's not enough to change what's happening in the world.

What a strange coincidence that the discussion was EV mass adoption and the effect on the grid, then you say "300,000,000 EVs", which just happens to be almost exactly the number of cars in the US.

And why didn't you correct me when I was talking about Florida if you were talking worldwide? Or when I gave the US battery warranty timeframe?

Doesn't add up. You were talking US like everyone else, but now that your "10X Renewable" claim is shown to be complete nonsense, you're pretending like you were talking international when it's obvious you were talking US.


You nailed it with "just talk to myself" that's the reason nothing is going to change.

You said talk to someone who has installed a charging station in an existing home and I have, so on THAT topic, I can talk to myself, I guess. Implying that means I'm not listening to the other side of the argument on other topics is obviously false and just a distraction from how your other claims are crashing and burning.
 

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