Roverhound
Adventurer
Post whatever you want, I still don't believe you. I'm not calling you out, I'm pointing you out.
Canadian Disco 2 Build
- Thread starter R_Lefebvre
- Start date
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
Well, I've been over this before with Chapman and his baseless accusations. Yes, I held a number of positions in a relatively short span. I guess since you aren't in the business, you wouldn't know how automotive engineering works. It's very common to move around a lot. If an OEM hires you from college, you tend to get moved around into different departments. For whatever reason, they value a breadth of knowlege over depth. If you get brought in as a contractor, as I did, it's common to move to a Tier 1 because the pay is vastly better. It's not much of a stretch of the imagination that Dana's Engine Fluid Management Division would be interested in somebody who did D&R Engineering on transmission oil cooler tubes at Ford. From there, as I've mentioned, I moved to another Tier 1 in the Toronto area. I did this for personal reasons, I don't like the Detroit area, and mine and my wifes families are from further east. It's also not much of a stretch of the imagination that a Tier 1 would be interested in hiring an engineer with 4 years experience at an OEM in Detroit, and 2 years at another Tier 1. Even though it was a completely different field, they could test my mechanical aptitude, and customer experience is the harder asset to test and/or train, so somebody with a track record of that is valued.
Then in ~2007, I decided to get out of automotive, for obviously prescient reasons. I can provide @Ford.com and @Dana.com reference email addresses to confirm employment. But I'm not going to do that for Dan or Walter. If anybody else really cares, I can provide it to a more professional person. Heck, there's probably nothing stopping anybody from calling Human Resources right now at either company and asking for confirmation of employment. (Actually, I guess you'd have to do so at my old contract company for Ford)
And now, where exactly did I indicate I couldn't *figure out* how to replace a U-joint? That was never an issue. The questions were related to which particular U-joint was the best. Or questions about which custom driveshaft is best. How is somebody know which joint is strongest without A) breaking them, or B) asking?
I replaced the springs and shocks without even consulting Rave. Replaced the driveshaft, no problem. Disassembled and cleaned the transmission computer. Gutted the entire interior to solve a water leak, and put it back. Installed the front bumper, etc. Not to mention the MAF diagnosis thread.
Yes, sometimes I ask questions about things. Walter for some reason sees that as a sign of weakness. But it's a good thing the world was created by better men than him. There is no shame in asking questions about what you're unfamiliar with, or trying to do something better.
Then in ~2007, I decided to get out of automotive, for obviously prescient reasons. I can provide @Ford.com and @Dana.com reference email addresses to confirm employment. But I'm not going to do that for Dan or Walter. If anybody else really cares, I can provide it to a more professional person. Heck, there's probably nothing stopping anybody from calling Human Resources right now at either company and asking for confirmation of employment. (Actually, I guess you'd have to do so at my old contract company for Ford)
And now, where exactly did I indicate I couldn't *figure out* how to replace a U-joint? That was never an issue. The questions were related to which particular U-joint was the best. Or questions about which custom driveshaft is best. How is somebody know which joint is strongest without A) breaking them, or B) asking?
I replaced the springs and shocks without even consulting Rave. Replaced the driveshaft, no problem. Disassembled and cleaned the transmission computer. Gutted the entire interior to solve a water leak, and put it back. Installed the front bumper, etc. Not to mention the MAF diagnosis thread.
Yes, sometimes I ask questions about things. Walter for some reason sees that as a sign of weakness. But it's a good thing the world was created by better men than him. There is no shame in asking questions about what you're unfamiliar with, or trying to do something better.
Roverhound
Adventurer
Never saw asking questions as a sign of weakness, just the questions you ask are inconsistent with what you claim to be.
I still don't believe you.
I still don't believe you.
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
Because a guy who has experience engineering underhood plumbing, and front end accessory drives, and only drove sport compacts and motorcycles previously should just automatically know all about U-joints? You think in a 4 year college degree, you should learn all there is to know about cars?
Red90
Adventurer
I feel like I just stumbled into Pirate4x4 and did not realize it.
Get abused for going wheeling. Looks like a normal day out for me INCLUDING the big expedition trips I've done.
Get abused for asking question about driveshaft options. Crazy. I personally design things with 6000 hp motors and was rebuilding engines at the age of 12, but I would still ask the same questions.
Get abused for going wheeling. Looks like a normal day out for me INCLUDING the big expedition trips I've done.
Get abused for asking question about driveshaft options. Crazy. I personally design things with 6000 hp motors and was rebuilding engines at the age of 12, but I would still ask the same questions.
Now here's a guy who knows how to do a water crossing.:sombrero:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuGqkTWuLjg&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuGqkTWuLjg&NR=1
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
Love the comments:
Hello people, what do you think happens in heavy rain and you're driving on the freeway? Everything underhood gets completely soaked. The electricals are designed to take it. Well, newer trucks are much better in this regard than the older ones.
Hello people, what do you think happens in heavy rain and you're driving on the freeway? Everything underhood gets completely soaked. The electricals are designed to take it. Well, newer trucks are much better in this regard than the older ones.
michaelgroves
Explorer
Quite. I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. My brother has a diesel DII, and regularly fords water that is a bit too deep, and has to dry out the computer. They're not magic boxes: if you know how they work and don't just throw up your hands in horror at them, they're only a bit more of a PITA than having an old-fashioned distributor and getting water on the points. My mother used to complain about new cars when she didn't understand something too.
My only real complaint with car electronics is that they don't make them truly modular and open-standard. OBwancanobe etc. is a step in the right direction, but too little too late. IMO, in an ideal world the hardware and software superset would be public domain, with the manufacturers choosing the parts they want to implement, and setting the parameters the way they want. Replacing blown hardware would then be as simple and cheap as PC hardware.
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
Did you walk that water crossing before you tackled it with the Disco?
No. I had been through it the year before with no issue. I also was relying on the advice of the trail guides who were supposed to be leading us. As I mentioned in the original post about the subject, that's the last time I will do that. "Trust, but verify."
Agree 100% with all of this. I find that too much of the time, people are just afraid of these black boxes and don't know how to work with them. These are not high power electronics, they don't blow up when they get wet. Heck, not even the factory amplifier which IS a "high power" device didn't blow up. I dried it out too, and it's still in service. I think a big part of the fear and mystery here is that people panic and don't know how to respond. Get the truck out of the water, and disconnect the power to the devices that got wet ASAP. Then open them up, and dry them out. A special cleaner is best to get any dirt out.
Corrosion, not water, is the real enemy. They don't corrode in a matter of seconds. The only challenge here is getting the cases off to clean properly. The transmission computer was not designed to come apart, but it is a simple matter of prying back the folded tabs. The Amp was just a bunch of little screws. In fact, I used regular old brake cleaner to clean the amp, knowing the products are similar, and it's fine.
I think too many people, when they drown the truck and it stops working, they tow it home or whatever, and the water sits for a long time, and then you get problems.
It's also a relatively simple problem to solve anyway. Just put Conformal Compound, or potting compound on it, and you won't even have to worry. I notice Lucky8 has even come up with a service to do this for you, and there's a video of him running his truck with the ECU submerged in a bucket for several minutes.
Yes, the real problem is the proprietary electronics that can't be serviced. The SLABS is an example of this. The problem isn't the SLABS itself, it's the fact that unlike a mechanical device, you can't SEE how it works, can adjust it or fix it. And the only reason for that situation is money. It's a money grab from the OEM's. I've said it before, I'm sure I'll say it many more times, but we NEED a new OBDII-type of legislation, forcing the OEMs to give us the RIGHT to fix our cars.
When I turbocharged my Focus, I was up against the factory ECU which was very good at figuring out any electronic trickery we attempted to modify the input signals to let it work with forced induction. I ended up taking the be-all end-all route and installing a Pecte T2 system. Now the only thing my factory ECU controls is the speedometer. I have full visibility and control over everything in that engine, but it cost me $2200.
About a year later, Ford blew the lid off the EEC-IV system, and provided effective chip tuning of the original ECU, and things have never been the same since. The factory computer is actually easier to operate, and does a better job in many aspects than an stand alone will. It's more sophisticated, but it took them "seeing the light" to make it happen.
Overall, I find the LR crowd to be too afraid of electronics, and it's really put us behind the bell curve compared to other enthusiasts. The state of the MAF knowledge was way below other marques which use the same exact Bosch device. It took the Hummer guys to solve a lot of the SLABS mysteries. etc.
michaelgroves
Explorer
Absolute craziness......did you truly need to get to the other side or did you just want to? Were there other shallower ways around.....or is it just the challenge. Just cause you know how to fix wet electronics or have gotten away w/ it so far. I've gotten a few thing wet that never came back. Kinda tired of my interior smelling like old fish too. :costumed-smiley-007
michaelgroves
Explorer
A definite misjudgment on his part, and he'd be the first to say so! I'm just putting to bed the idea that the electronics of a D2 preclude deep water crossings. They are just one of many factors that make trucks and water a bad mix. Mouldy carpets, bent conrods, corroded brakes, diffs full of water, rusting chassis, mud-filled clutch housings, and squeaky wheel-bearings being some others. In fact, let's face it, off-roading in general isn't very kind to your vehicle...
R_Lefebvre
Expedition Leader
That's what gets me. I've done a lot less damage to my truck in the water than others have done on the rocks, yet I get lambasted.
Mercedesrover
Explorer
That's what gets me. I've done a lot less damage to my truck in the water than others have done on the rocks, yet I get lambasted.
Really..... Ah, it just hasn't reared its ugly head yet. The damage you've done by submersing your truck over the floor boards multiple times, in nasty muddy water is not without consequence no matter what you thank or how good you are with a can of brake cleaner and a hair drier. Let us all know how that truck is doing in a couple of years.
Damage from rocks is immediate and obvious.