Canon G11 - Impressions

[bajasurf]

Canon S90

Rockwell recently reviewed the Canon S90. I was a fan of his but his constant plugging and urging others to buy the $9000 Leica (sans lens) when he constantly spouted " I am a film guy" rants leads me to believe he is more interested in reaping rewards from retail sellers and throwing his previous "film verses digital" arguments out with the window. Anyway, I got that off my chest and his review of the S90 link is below:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/s90.htm

 

[Lost Canadian]

Ken Rockwell is proabably one of the most opinionated and contradictory reviewers on the net. I stopped reading his arbitrary ramblings shortly after I found him because of this. If you want an honest, coherent, comprehensive reviewer check out Reid Reviews.

 

[dhackney]

So, this was an interesting review. It almost makes it sound like the S90 is the better buy in the end.

What it did do for me is to get me looking at other cameras that end up getting listed in reviews. So now I am looking at these,

Canon S90
Panasonic Lumix LX3

I have to say, reading the review, http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/lx3.shtml I am serious leaning towards this model.

Any comments, reviews or comparisions?

I was in a time crunch to replace my venerable pocket camera, a Canon SD870is. I burnt the display (twice) shooting a sunset in Chile last year, and that wasn't going to be tenable for a gig coming up next week where I might need to show that display, with its two round, dime sized, black blobs, to people other than Amazon villagers.

Consequently, I stopped by the local camera shop today and poked around.

My contestants were:

• Canon SD980is (current model replacement for the 870is)
• Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1

I also played around with the 5D Mk2 again; ostensibly for a size / weight comparison, but actually to see if my internal rationalization engine could make it from the $312 SD980 past the $1,200 DMC-GF1 all the way to the $3,800 5D with the 24-105 L kit lens.

It could not.

You will note the G11 was not on my list.

I was so disappointed with the G10 I bought late last year, I didn't even consider the G11. That's a legacy of the combination of what the G10 is and what it is not. I wanted it to be the DMC-GF1, a digital rangefinder. It's not. It's also pretty bad at anything above 400 ISO and suffers painful shutter lag, so I didn't consider it worthwhile to consider its successor. That may have been a severe and unnecessary judgement.

I ended up with a Canon S90, which I literally just walked in with a few minutes ago.

I'll start a thread on it once I get some images, etc.

In the meantime, I am heartened to read that Michael and others are very happy with their G11s. I hope it is everything they hoped for and more.

I also hope Canon someday builds its own version of the DMC-GF1, perhaps with the 7D chip and the EF-S lenses.

As to the OJ Point-n-Pray shootout, I think Michael would be an excellent choice to lead that evaluation. Thanks so much for floating the idea.

But seriously, there is a real need in overlanding for a pocket camera that you will basically always have with you. If I look at the shots from our past six years of travel, many of the most meaningful shots were ones we captured with our little cameras, completely spontaneously, in settings and places where it may have been problematic to have the big SLRs and their baggage.

IMO, the G10/G11 cameras are at the extreme large end of the "pocketable" spectrum.

The DMC-GF1 really only qualifies with the 20mm F1.7 pancake lens. The kit zoom puts it over the edge into a "bag camera" form factor.

So, Michael, ummm, when you lead that mega-galactic "point-n-pray" OJ shootout of the 1,923 cameras in that segment, I encourage you to be rigorous in establishing a viable size/mass/weight cutoff for overlanding / expedition use.

Doug

PS - And yes, if you are wondering, the 870 had TWO black, dime size, blobs because after the first one I said, "Wow, look at that, the display burnt but the sensor is still OK! I've never seen that before. Let me try that again." Doh!

 

[nwoods]

there is a real need in overlanding for a pocket camera that you will basically always have with you. If I look at the shots from our past six years of travel, many of the most meaningful shots were ones we captured with our little cameras, completely spontaneously, in settings and places where it may have been problematic to have the big SLRs and their baggage.

I'm not sure I agree with you anymore. I used to...but with the advent and popularity of the baby SLR's like the D40 and Canon Rebel series, the majority of photos posted here on ExPo that are visually stimulating tend to be SLR based images...or high end PNS's like the G10 series.

Most of the other images might have a compelling subject, but they are still lacking in image quality. Enough so that in my opinion, they are not all that enjoyable.

I do think this situation will reverse again, as more cameras with quality like the G11 or LX3, etc.. hit the trails. It's an interesting trend. SLR's were too expensive, so we saw lots of crappy PNS imagery, then SLR's got cheaper and the general populous's image quality improved because they were more obtainable. Now SLR technology is getting into PNS units, and their popularity increases again.

There will always be a market and need for high end SLR and cheap PNS cameras, but it's interesting to see the middle ground move back and forth like a good tug-of-war match.

 

[Redline]

Looking forward to that thread.

I ended up with a Canon S90, which I literally just walked in with a few minutes ago.

I'll start a thread on it once I get some images, etc.

 

[Michael Slade]

Looking forward to that thread.

Yeah, me too. The S90 sounds like a winner actually. IMO it is a great alternative for a lower-priced G11.

I'm happy with the G11 only b/c I have the Hassy H3D-39, the Nikon D2x, the Lotus 8x20, the Canham 4x10, the Lotus 11x14 and the Toyo 8x10. The G11 fills a niche that the other cameras don't.

The G11 for me is the happy compromise between the strict point-n-shoot and the DSLR that I can swap my lenses on. There are a LOT of other choices in that realm, several higher-prices, several lower-priced. I could have chosen any number of cameras, but ended up with the G11 b/c I have a gazillion other Canon's in the stable and I didn't want to learn *yet another* camera system. It is a good teaching tool for me also b/c I can show my kids stuff on it and hand it to them and they don't have to re-learn menus'n'such.

There are a lot of ways to skin that OJ PNS (point'n'shoot) cat. If you're half-way serious about having that be a serious article I'd like some input on judging criteria. I don't read on-line reviews, so I'm not really familar with the 'standard' ways people are judging them.

 

[nwoods]

Y If you're half-way serious about having that be a serious article I'd like some input on judging criteria.

Started that thread here:
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=492483#post492483

 

[dhackney]

There will always be a market and need for high end SLR and cheap PNS cameras, but it's interesting to see the middle ground move back and forth like a good tug-of-war match.

I agree with you 100%.

Beautiful insight: the middle ground move back and forth like a good tug-of-war match

My previous optimum matchups were:

• Serious travel photography (read: including image quality) = DSLR (implies pro lenses)
• Consumer hobbyist to Pro-sumer travel photography = EVF (electronic viewfinder) image-stablized mega zoom with fixed lens
• Casual travel photography = Point-n-Shoot

Now that there are some serious rangefinder type entries on the market, I think we'll see some changes in the top two categories. And I'm not referring to M9 price points here.

I see the tug-of-war playing out over the ratio of sensor size to package size. APS-H to APS-C size consumer/pro-sumer market sensors are getting into the range of delivering some serious image quality. When you shove those sensors into a small body and lose the pentaprism/mirror of the SLR, things get interesting for the overlanding / expedition market.

And as a side note, I went with the S90 for the same reason Michael went with the G11, we already own a bunch of Canon gear, so we already know the menu structure, buttons, ergonomics, etc. It makes a real difference when you're in a precarious position saying, "Honey, just put the fill flash on and shoot!"

Michael, sorry for the thread drift.

 

[Michael Slade]

Michael, sorry for the thread drift.

What are you kidding me? I love the thread drift. It's what makes the conversation interesting. :victory:

 

[99wj]

i was so close to getting one of these, today, but the salesman really sucked and didnt deserve the comish. So i'm torn over the G11 and the S90, so I need you guys to sell me on the one you like the most, and i'll probably go get that one tomorrow. What is your recommendation?

 

[Michael Slade]

Get the one you can afford.

 

[99wj]

i can swing either one fine, im just looking for personal opinions to base my decision on,im kinda leaning towards the g11 but if someone makes a good suggestion otherwise, im open to that also.

 

[dhackney]

i was so close to getting one of these, today, but the salesman really sucked and didnt deserve the comish. So i'm torn over the G11 and the S90, so I need you guys to sell me on the one you like the most, and i'll probably go get that one tomorrow. What is your recommendation?

I can't speak to the G11, as my only time with it was handling it for about 90 seconds at Best Buy. Seems a little more compact than my G10. I like the concept of the movable screen, but read a review that indicated the screen can not be positioned at 180 degrees, so that's worth checking.

I just got a battery charged and ran the S90 through the menus. As mentioned, I'm familiar with the Canon menus, so I don't think I'd need to crack the manual other than to scratch my "read the owner's manual for everything, including the toaster" itch.

My initial impressions on the S90 are:
- Very, very fully featured (in a pro-sumer sense) for a camera in this form factor (size, shape, etc.)
- Excellent integration of the lens ring
- Same physical size as the SD870, just a little blockier, not as rounded; exception is the lens ring protrusion, which is worth it, believe me
- Top dial for camera mode, similar to an SLR (P/Tv/Av/M)
- Ergonomics are good; includes a small thumb rest in upper right corner

I have not downloaded any images, so I can't comment on the image quality. I'm looking at this as a pocket camera, so I'll be pleasantly surprised by anything better than the SD870 it is replacing. Considering the S90 is reputed to have the same sensor and processor as the G11, I might be pleasantly surprised.

Even given identical imaging chips and processors, I expect the S90's images would suffer in comparison to the G11 due to the different lenses, but I don't have any way to run that comparison.

I will cover it more extensively tomorrow in a dedicated thread.

First impression bottom line: If you are considering a G11, it's worth a look.

 

[99wj]

^^^ many thanks sir, i shall make my trip to best buy tomorrow, also if anyone else has input, please, i want it

 

[Photog]

I saw a presentation of the S90 and G11, at a recent Digital Expo. The S90 looks like a great little pocket camera. Good control, and most of the function of the G11. The lens ring is cool too.

One of the things I like about the G-Series cameras, is the ability to add a lens tube.

Photo by Richard Franiec

The tube attaches to the body, where the ring is removed. This protects the lens, when it is extended. The camera can be held by the tube. A polarizer and other filters can be used with the tube, since it is threaded for a filter at the end of the tube.

This makes the camera a little bigger; but it is not a pocket camera anyway. The tube is easily removed, if you need the camera to be smaller and more compact.

The G11 has a hot shoe, and can use a majority of the functions available in the 580EX Speed Light flash. The 580EX is the current top-of-the-line Canon flash. If you ever learn how to use a flash, this is a big deal.

The S90 is not designed for any advanced photography, beyond using the manual mode to control exposure and other settings.

I love this new G11; but the S90 definitely has its place (in a pocket).