carry gun

[jnaut]

The person that chooses to carry a firearm in self defense does so because they WANT to, they are the type of person that takes firearms very seriously and they are going to be more proficient than the average officer.

With respect, I find this hard to believe and frankly disagree outright. That's bordering on the argument that you drive better when you're drunk, because you're trying harder.

And for the record, I'm not reflexively defending LEO's. God knows if you follow the news, we know they're prone to all kinds of job-related folly. But that's another thread.

The point of my post wasn't to hate on glocks, LEO's or any particular brand of firearm. My point was to suggest that life ain't perfect, which is why it's a good idea to wear a helmet on a motorcycle. You can argue down an infinite number of paths that if you're driving defensively, leaving the proper space and distance, going the proper speed for conditions etc. etc., that no helmet is necessary because you'll never wreck.

NDs with 1911s (with a grip safety) than all other types of firearms combined.

Again, I wasn't trying to suggest the inherent superiority of 1911's, or their users. I was merely pointing out that *proof* that if your finger isn't on the trigger than nothing will ever go wrong is dubious.

To sidestep a potential flamewar, I fell in love with a friends HK .40. To me, it represented the perfect blend of safety and readiness. It had a hammer and could be de-cocked. I own a 1911 .45 (not a great carrying piece to begin with) and don't like the idea of carrying it locked and cocked, safety off. His .40 was great because you could chamber it, decock it, leave the safety off, but because it's a double-action, with one hard trigger pull the first time it could be fired.

 

[kjp1969]

The person that chooses to carry a firearm in self defense does so because they WANT to, they are the type of person that takes firearms very seriously and they are going to be more proficient than the average officer.

Uh, as a practical shooting competitor, I think you're not the typical guy!

Some people who carry guns for self defense are well trained, but some are not. The blanket statement that civilian gun carriers are better trained than officers is probably not accurate. (Civilians, for example, don't have to range-qualify on a regular basis. or perhaps at all.) I'd sure be interested if you can prove me wrong, though.

 

[KG6BWS]

Uh, as a practical shooting competitor, I think you're not the typical guy!

Some people who carry guns for self defense are well trained, but some are not. The blanket statement that civilian gun carriers are better trained than officers is probably not accurate. (Civilians, for example, don't have to range-qualify on a regular basis. or perhaps at all.) I'd sure be interested if you can prove me wrong, though.

i think what hes getting at is that civilians carry by choice, leo's dont. most of the people i know that carry spend ALOT of time with targets, whether on a range or out in the desert. some LEO's just want the badge so they only spend JUST enough time on the range to qualify, nothing more.

thats not always the case, that was just my understanding of his statement.

 

[jnaut]

Uh, as a practical shooting competitor, I think you're not the typical guy!

Range: Clear space between shooters. Safety is #1 concern. All people trained, or trained people present, range rules strictly enforced, no alcohol allowed or consumed, people under the influence turned away.

Life: hopped up crackhead jumps on your back from behind while his ho kicks you in the shins and the groin from the front. You struggle for your concealed firearm with your only free arm which as luck would have it happens to be your weak arm, which is partially compromised anyway by said crackhead choking you from behind.

It's the little imperfections that make life so beautiful, you know? :friday:

 

[kjp1969]

i think what hes getting at is that civilians carry by choice, leo's dont. most of the people i know that carry spend ALOT of time with targets, whether on a range or out in the desert. some LEO's just want the badge so they only spend JUST enough time on the range to qualify, nothing more.

thats not always the case, that was just my understanding of his statement.

Maybe I misunderstood, but I read it as "The person that chooses to carry a firearm in self defense. . . [is always] going to be more proficient than the average officer."

The way I see it, every LEO also carries by choice (choice of profession, anyway) but is required to have professional instruction and qualify on multiple guns. A few civilians have very good instruction, but most probably have no formal instruction at all. So certainly, LEO's as a group have more (and probably better) training than civilians as a group.

Probably silly to argue about it, because we could never accurately compare LEO accidental discharges to civilian accidental discharges. So what the heck, let's just go shooting sometime, have a shoot-off, loser buys the beer!:sombrero:

 

[mrstang01]

With respect, I find this hard to believe and frankly disagree outright. That's bordering on the argument that you drive better when you're drunk, because you're trying harder.

snipped...

To sidestep a potential flamewar, I fell in love with a friends HK .40. To me, it represented the perfect blend of safety and readiness. It had a hammer and could be de-cocked. I own a 1911 .45 (not a great carrying piece to begin with) and don't like the idea of carrying it locked and cocked, safety off. His .40 was great because you could chamber it, decock it, leave the safety off, but because it's a double-action, with one hard trigger pull the first time it could be fired.

A 1911 is the perfect carry piece, and if it's cocked and locked there are at least two (in some cases 3) safeties engaged, so how is the safety off? If you dislike the 1911, send it to me, and I'll give it a great home.

And I'd say BBSound is closer to the mark than you are about dedicated shooters. I've shot against SWAT trained cops, and beaten them handily, and the gun handling I've seen would scare you to death.

Michael

 

[upatree]

H&K vs Glock

To sidestep a potential flamewar, I fell in love with a friends HK .40. To me, it represented the perfect blend of safety and readiness. It had a hammer and could be de-cocked. I own a 1911 .45 (not a great carrying piece to begin with) and don't like the idea of carrying it locked and cocked, safety off. His .40 was great because you could chamber it, decock it, leave the safety off, but because it's a double-action, with one hard trigger pull the first time it could be fired.[/QUOTE]

I own and carry both a H&K usp 40 and a Glock mod 27 in 40. both are fine weapons. the problem i have with this comment and caring the HK in decocked is what was stated "with one hard trigger pull the first time..."
after that first hard pull you go into single action and a much easier trigger pull. having two different trigger pulls on the same weapon is not conducive
to to accurate shooting especially in an emergency situation. the glock trigger pull the same every time. also i will take the glock over the hk any time in the mud and crud as it works where the hk will not

 

[jnaut]

And I'd say BBSound is closer to the mark than you are about dedicated shooters. I've shot against SWAT trained cops, and beaten them handily, and the gun handling I've seen would scare you to death.

Michael

One anecdotal case does not prove that everyone who carries is "better than the cops". You're better than swat. A trend that doesn't make.

On the 1911, I'm tempted to trade you something for it. Actually, I lied, it's not a "1911", it's a colt m1991-a1. So, I guess that makes it a 1911 'style' weapon. Perfectly fine weapon in the field, but haven't been able to get any hollows to feed reliably, and that's with a custom throat polish. FMJ feeds great. I've inspected the design and I'm about to declare a full on design flaw in the feed path.

Plus, for my taste, it's a little heavy (makes the pants droop) and it's got too many sharp pointy edges for smooth draw.

And for the record, adding my own anecdotal evidence, most of the cops I know are gun nuts in their private lives. So they'd still fall into the category of dedicated carrier, they just happen to also have a badge.

 

[jnaut]

after that first hard pull you go into single action and a much easier trigger pull. having two different trigger pulls on the same weapon is not conducive
to to accurate shooting especially in an emergency situation.

One note on that. Emergency situations come in all shapes and sizes. We all like to think that our 'emergency' situation will be an invader in the home. Distance between us and the shooter. In my urban environment, I'm far more likely to need my weapon while a crazy homeless guy is trying to hit me with a bottle while two of his friends are climbing on my back. Frankly, unless the person I'm defending against is shooting at me with their own weapon, I'm likely to be prosecuted for manslaughter if I shoot someone armed with less than a gun at anything more than a few feet.

Cops get the luxury of aiming their weapons before they shoot while yelling "stop now!". Few civilians do.

Unfortunately, all of this becomes high speculation territory.

also i will take the glock over the hk any time in the mud and crud as it works where the hk will not

Can't speak to reliability of either. Haven't had any ownership experience. Just shooting experience.

 

[KG6BWS]

So, I guess that makes it a 1911 'style' weapon. Perfectly fine weapon in the field, but haven't been able to get any hollows to feed reliably, and that's with a custom throat polish. FMJ feeds great. I've inspected the design and I'm about to declare a full on design flaw in the feed path.

just out of curiosity...have you tried polishing the ramp also?? i have a para 1911 "style" and it had the same problem with hp's. once i polished the ramp AND throat, they feed just fine.

 

[hammerg26]

UP - if it is "cocked and locked" then the safety is on. If the safety is off, then it is just cocked, and that is not a great idea.
IMHO - The 1911 is an EXCELLENT carry firearm... I love mine.

 

[cnynrat]

...

And for the record, adding my own anecdotal evidence, most of the cops I know are gun nuts in their private lives. So they'd still fall into the category of dedicated carrier, they just happen to also have a badge.

I was going to say that is my anecdotal experience as well. For most of the cops I know it almost seems as though they became cops because they can carry a gun on the job. It's an exceedingly small sample, so I'd hesitate to generalize ...

On the other hand, all the private citizens I know who are gun owners are quite dedicated and maintain and practice with their weapon(s) regularly. Also a small sample, and there is probably an element of self selection at work here ...

Regardless, I think there is good reason to chose a revolver for a personal defense weapon, particularly if you want to toss in a measure of grit and grime from knocking around in the back country into the equation.

Also, no reason I know of to choose just one. :sombrero:

 

[BBsound]

i think what hes getting at is that civilians carry by choice, leo's dont. most of the people i know that carry spend ALOT of time with targets, whether on a range or out in the desert. some LEO's just want the badge so they only spend JUST enough time on the range to qualify, nothing more.

thats not always the case, that was just my understanding of his statement.

Thanks, that is the point I was trying to get across. Now I do shot with police that are gun people, and they are good. A lot of times when somebody from law enforcement shows up to a match they are humbled very quickly.

 

[BBsound]

One anecdotal case does not prove that everyone who carries is "better than the cops". You're better than swat. A trend that doesn't make.

On the 1911, I'm tempted to trade you something for it. Actually, I lied, it's not a "1911", it's a colt m1991-a1. So, I guess that makes it a 1911 'style' weapon. Perfectly fine weapon in the field, but haven't been able to get any hollows to feed reliably, and that's with a custom throat polish. FMJ feeds great. I've inspected the design and I'm about to declare a full on design flaw in the feed path.

Plus, for my taste, it's a little heavy (makes the pants droop) and it's got too many sharp pointy edges for smooth draw.

And for the record, adding my own anecdotal evidence, most of the cops I know are gun nuts in their private lives. So they'd still fall into the category of dedicated carrier, they just happen to also have a badge.

come to the darkside, get a Glock:wings:

 

[BBsound]

I was going to say that is my anecdotal experience as well. For most of the cops I know it almost seems as though they became cops because they can carry a gun on the job. It's an exceedingly small sample, so I'd hesitate to generalize ...

On the other hand, all the private citizens I know who are gun owners are quite dedicated and maintain and practice with their weapon(s) regularly. Also a small sample, and there is probably an element of self selection at work here ...

Regardless, I think there is good reason to chose a revolver for a personal defense weapon, particularly if you want to toss in a measure of grit and grime from knocking around in the back country into the equation.

Also, no reason I know of to choose just one. :sombrero:

As far as the grit and grime goes, this is my G34 that i through in a mud puddle at one particular 3 gun match that was raining miserably. After I threw it in a buddy of mine stood on it, then I finished the match with it.

PS, the signature on the side is R. Lee Ermey's