wingysataday
Adventurer
it just seems like nobody uses it anymore.
CBradio , MURS, firstik... Where do I start? Help.
- Thread starter wingysataday
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Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
Every trail run I've been on in the past 5 years everybody has used CB. I've only been on one where somebody had HAM. I had my 2m Ham in my 99 and never used it.
4x4junkie
Explorer
CB is still quite very popular with truckers.
As said, CB is also by far the most popular on trail runs. FRS & HAM both seem pretty close for 2nd & 3rd (at least IME) though they are very different from each other, followed by use of so-called "Race Radios" (which use pt.90 business band channels in the 150 and 460 MHz bands). It would seem popularity of race radios for trail use is on an upswing while CB use may be declining, but only slightly (mainly only among longtime wheeling enthusiasts).
I would suggest you get a 5ft Firestik and mount it where at least 60% of it's length is above the vehicle body if range is important. 5' is about the cutoff point where CB antenna performance begins to drop pretty drastically.
wingysataday
Adventurer
What are the problems with MUR S radio are they just pieces of crap or what is the problem why don't anybody use them? If I haven't murs radio can I use a fire stick antenna with it or are there all kinds of different hook ups or is it the same as ham radio in a CB radio antenna with a different?
4x4junkie
Explorer
MURS is just a few MHz above the 2M HAM band (151-154 MHz), so it's characteristics should be pretty similar. Legal power is limited to 2 watts (FM only), but unlike FRS, you can use an external-mounted antenna (and therefore should be able to communicate MUCH further than on FRS... almost as far as on a regular CB too).
A 27 MHz CB antenna will not work on MURS just the same as it wouldn't work on 2M HAM.
The popularity of MURS I think has been stymied somewhat by a lack of available radios specific for the band (IIRC, there's only been a small number of hard-to-find handhelds similar in style to the ones you see the guys at Target or Walmart carrying). Some people have taken 2M HAM gear and modified it to work there, though there are some legal issues in doing that.
A 27 MHz CB antenna will not work on MURS just the same as it wouldn't work on 2M HAM.
The popularity of MURS I think has been stymied somewhat by a lack of available radios specific for the band (IIRC, there's only been a small number of hard-to-find handhelds similar in style to the ones you see the guys at Target or Walmart carrying). Some people have taken 2M HAM gear and modified it to work there, though there are some legal issues in doing that.
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
I've never known anybody who uses them. That's the problem. Before you can talk, you need to have someone on the other end of the line.
CB and HAM serve two separate markets. CB are mass-market radios that are popular because they are cheap enough that anybody can get one, and they no longer require a license (hey, who here is old enough to remember when they did? I do, although by the time I was old enough to get my own the license requirement had been dropped by the FCC.)
CB takes up a very small space on the upper end of the HF bandwidth (27Mhz.) AFAIK there are no other commercial users who are envious of that bandwidth as most modern communications use far higher frequencies in the VHF/UHF and even SHF bands (30Mhz and up.) So, bottom line, CB will remain the default for casual users for the time being just because there's nothing else that is as universal as CB and while the sound quality and range of CB are not great, they aren't terrible either. CB is the essence of "good enough" when it comes to radio communications.
HAM serves the enthusiast market, IOW, hobbyists who are really into radio and who will pay a lot for some pretty esoteric features that a non-hobbyist wouldn't care for.
One of the best features of HAM is that HAM operators can use repeaters. This allows users on 2m and 440Mhz, which are line-of-sight systems, to be able to transmit and receive over very long distances because the sending radio doesn't need to be in line-of-sight to the receiving radio, it only has to be within line-of-sight of the repeater, and since repeaters are normally placed on top of mountains or buildings, this can be a very long distance.
HAM takes up a bit more bandwidth since there are a number of HAM frequencies in all different bands. Over on the HAM radio websites there is a lot of concern that if more people don't take up HAM, the FCC will start carving up the HAM bandwidth and giving it away to commercial users, since some of the HAM frequencies are in parts of the frequency spectrum that are in high demand by commercial users. I don't know how viable this threat is but it's one that HAM operators take seriously.
So that leaves MURS. In a perfect world, MURS would become the new CB, since it offers many of the advantages of VHF HAM radios but does not require a license. The downside is that MURS cannot use repeaters. Since MURS cannot use repeaters, it's about as useful as a hand-held FRS radio, IOW, you can talk with your buddy who is in line-of-sight to you but as soon as he goes over a hill or behind a curve, you can no longer talk.
The reality is that MURS offers nothing over CB except sound quality, and nothing at all over HAM except that you don't need a license. Seeing as how the FCC dropped the morse code requirement from the HAM licensing scheme, there's really no reason anybody who needs long distance communication can't get a HAM license.
wingysataday
Adventurer
Murs it is! Since nobody is using it, than it's exactly what i want. How much distance can i get with an antenna mounted on my house with a murs radio? What antenna should i Get? I dont want a huge ridiculous antenna on my house but I live in a 2 story and I could go another 6-10ft? blessings
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
Who are you going to be talking TO? Or are you going to buy MURS radios for your friends? As for range, VHF generally runs Line of Sight (LOS.) Radio Light of Sight is typically slightly longer just because the top of the antenna is usually elevated above eye level.
So, if you can see your buddies, you can talk to them. Now, 2m, which is also VHF, is also LOS, but the difference is that with 2m you can hit a repeater - so you don't have to have LOS to the receiver, you just both have to have LOS to the repeater.
But MURS doesn't allow repeaters so anyone who is not in direct LOS of you, you cannot talk with.
MURS frequencies are close to 2m, I would imagine that almost any 2m antenna would work fine, assuming there's someone on the other end.
mjmcdowell
Explorer
CB?
Uhhhhh, I had to get a license for my first radio, you know..."Rubber Ducky"........ and of course C W McCall... the one hit wonder. :sombrero: mjmcdowell
As for range, VHF generally runs Line of Sight (LOS.) Radio Light of Sight is typically slightly longer just because the top of the antenna is usually elevated above eye level.
So, if you can see your buddies, you can talk to them. Now, 2m, which is also VHF, is also LOS, but the difference is that with 2m you can hit a repeater - so you don't have to have LOS to the receiver, you just both have to have LOS to the repeater.
But MURS doesn't allow repeaters so anyone who is not in direct LOS of you, you cannot talk with.
MURS frequencies are close to 2m, I would imagine that almost any 2m antenna would work fine, assuming there's someone on the other end.
Uhhhhh, I had to get a license for my first radio, you know..."Rubber Ducky"........ and of course C W McCall... the one hit wonder. :sombrero: mjmcdowell
troyboy162
Adventurer
wait... are you under the impression that HAM freqs could be busy in a emergency? You couldn't possibly fill all the HAM freqs. I can see your local repeter getting busy, but LOS will be wide open.
wingysataday
Adventurer
Troyboy, The problem with HAM for me (and my friends) is that I don't have the time or money to invest in it. I agree HAm is the ultimate. I can barely figure out how to work my shortwave radio much less a Ham radio. I have way to many hobbies as it is. 1 thing is for sure, during a disaster CB is going to be useless due to all the people on it. All my friends are purchasing MURS radios and antennas for there houses. MURS is easy to use, nobody uses them, no license required, has a decent distance, and is very affordable.
1.According to the radio instructions that came with my radio it says, MURS radios are NOT line of site radios.
2.What kind of distance could I get with/without an antenna?
1.According to the radio instructions that came with my radio it says, MURS radios are NOT line of site radios.
2.What kind of distance could I get with/without an antenna?
Martinjmpr
Wiffleball Batter
Uhhh...well, I'll let the general or extra class operators get into the nitty gritty details but radio waves in the VHF range generally don't bounce off layers of the atmosphere and then back to earth - they radiate straight away. So yes, they are LOS. Now, radio LOS is often farther than visual LOS, but it's still LOS.
Occasionally, atmospheric conditions will cause VHF waves to propagate beyond LOS but that's a rare occurence and it normally doesn't last that long.
Understand, this has nothing to do with the power or the quality of the radio. It is entirely a function of the frequency range.
Now, CB, which is at the upper end of the HF spectrum, has very long waves (compared to VHF) and when atmospheric conditions are right (particularly at night), CB can propagate very long distances by bouncing off layers of the atmosphere and then back to earth.
VHF does have the ability to "penetrate" buildings and structures better than HF (notice that when you go under a bridge or through a tunnel, your AM radio - which is in the low HF spectrum - will fade out, while your FM radio - which is in the mid VHF spectrum - does not.) So maybe that's what your instructions meant when they said your radio is not LOS, but in terms of what that frequency can do, unless you can hit a repeater (which is not permitted in MURS) you will be able to communicate only on LOS.
EDITED TO ADD: Again, going back to the AM/FM comparison, have you noticed that your FM radio starts to fade as soon as you get beyond the city limits? That's because it is in the VHF spectrum and operates on LOS. Now, that's LOS from the top of the antenna, which is why you can get a lot of range on a commercial, 50,000 watt FM radio station, but sooner or later you're going to drop below the radio horizon and the signal will fade.
But have you ever listened to AM radio at night? You can sit in your home in Idaho and listen to Salt Lake City, LA, Las Vegas, Seattle - and that is because AM radio is down in the HF spectrum (as is CB, although they're at opposit ends of that spectrum) and unlike FM radio, whose signals will radiate off into space, AM signals will bounce off the atmosphere and back to earth.
Moving Chicane
Already Gone.
Would be interested in hearing what other models you feel are decent or better (any why).
4x4junkie
Explorer
:Wow1:
And I always thought during a disaster you would WANT to be able to reach other people.
How do you plan to use MURS in a disaster with no one else is on it?
Even if you're buying radios for a few of your friends, it is very possible those same friends will also be involved in the same emergency and might not be of much help...