CC for wilderness camping/hiking...
- Thread starter WhereTheHellIsJames?
- Start date
SOAZ
Tim and Kelsey get lost..
If you are still considering the semi auto guns. Here is the review of the PPS.
There are some good size and thickness comparison shots to the revolver.
http://www.gunblast.com/Walther-PPS.htm :gunt:
There are some good size and thickness comparison shots to the revolver.
http://www.gunblast.com/Walther-PPS.htm :gunt:
WhereTheHellIsJames?
Explorer
Tim- That Walther-PPS looks like it may be a good option to consider.
The thing that makes me a bit hesitant to go with a semi auto is that I've heard that they're more likely to fail in extreme conditions. I don't really have experience with this, but if some of you do, I'd like to hear about your experiences.
As stated before, I'm not really a gun guy, and this is especially true with handguns. Keep in mind that I am not interested in a daily CC, rather just for wilderness camping/hiking.
The biggest factors for me are: weight, reliability, ease of use, ruggedness, and safety. I'm really looking for the option that will fulfill these to the greatest degree and have the least chance of machanical failure in "extreme" conditions.
The thing that makes me a bit hesitant to go with a semi auto is that I've heard that they're more likely to fail in extreme conditions. I don't really have experience with this, but if some of you do, I'd like to hear about your experiences.
As stated before, I'm not really a gun guy, and this is especially true with handguns. Keep in mind that I am not interested in a daily CC, rather just for wilderness camping/hiking.
The biggest factors for me are: weight, reliability, ease of use, ruggedness, and safety. I'm really looking for the option that will fulfill these to the greatest degree and have the least chance of machanical failure in "extreme" conditions.
SOAZ
Tim and Kelsey get lost..
WhereTheHellIsJames? said:
Yah, I'm with you. I have my ccw now, but more as a precaution and so when I feel the need I can carry concealed.
I think a revolver "technically" suits your needs best. There are just less moving parts. From the research and experience I've had with both I think the real life difference may be immeasurable. These modern semi autos are so reliable. Any of the major high quality brands seem to work perfectly. My S&W MP 9mm has about 2,000 rounds through it and not one single failer or jam.
This gun is often in the 4runner getting filled with dust etc. (bad gun owner: I've only cleaned the gun twice. I know, bad, but it keeps working flawlessly)
I spray it off with gun cleaner (really just overpriced brake cleaner so go with that instead) and oil it more often. Maybe after 3 or four hundred rounds or when it looks like it needs it.
There is one button that brakes the whole gun down to clean.
After my EXTREMELY limited experience and research I feel comfortable that my semi auto would not let me down. That being said, I like revolvers, just not their capacity.
I think you'd be best suited going to a range and renting a few of each to shoot. The one that fits best and fulfills the other needs will be the one.
ntsqd
Heretic Car Camper
One error I note is the statement that the J-Frame small .38's don't have manually cockable hammers. Only a couple don't, the 340 series, the 442, and the 640-642 series. All of the others either have exposed hammer spurs or shrouded (anti-snag feature) hammer spurs.
S&W J frame page
On the cleaning thing, a friend (Rexsname knows him too) who went through a Police Academy used to do the 'gross' cleaning of his service piece by stripping off the grips, locking the slide open, ejecting the magazine, and running the stainless firearm through a normal dishwasher cycle.
No way would I do that with a blued or polymer weapon, but I have no qualms about doing it with a stainless one.
That wasn't the total cleaning performed, but it got the "mungus groties" off quickly and easily, which left more time for the detail cleaning. Of which he was quite carefully checked and inspected.
FWIW I have found that brake or carb cleaner isn't quite as effective as Gun Scrubber. For home use the price difference is probably more important. We included the price of a tall GS can in every cleaning quote, so speed was more important to my bosses at the gun shop than was cost.
EDIT:
While I'm thinking about it, I know the OP has stated a preference for wheel guns, but for years I've carried a 1911A1 when in remote country. I'm thinking to get a compact Glock in .40 S&W as a lighter, smaller alternative. While a perfectly functioning firearm is always a requirement in this application; knowing how to rapidly clear a problem and practicing for those problems is also part of maintaining your level of competence with the firearm chosen.
S&W J frame page
On the cleaning thing, a friend (Rexsname knows him too) who went through a Police Academy used to do the 'gross' cleaning of his service piece by stripping off the grips, locking the slide open, ejecting the magazine, and running the stainless firearm through a normal dishwasher cycle.
No way would I do that with a blued or polymer weapon, but I have no qualms about doing it with a stainless one.
That wasn't the total cleaning performed, but it got the "mungus groties" off quickly and easily, which left more time for the detail cleaning. Of which he was quite carefully checked and inspected.
FWIW I have found that brake or carb cleaner isn't quite as effective as Gun Scrubber. For home use the price difference is probably more important. We included the price of a tall GS can in every cleaning quote, so speed was more important to my bosses at the gun shop than was cost.
EDIT:
While I'm thinking about it, I know the OP has stated a preference for wheel guns, but for years I've carried a 1911A1 when in remote country. I'm thinking to get a compact Glock in .40 S&W as a lighter, smaller alternative. While a perfectly functioning firearm is always a requirement in this application; knowing how to rapidly clear a problem and practicing for those problems is also part of maintaining your level of competence with the firearm chosen.
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WhereTheHellIsJames? said:
Aside from weight, you've just described the U.S. Military requirements in a nutshell, and they've been using semi-autos for near-as-makes-no-difference a century. Keep the semi auto in a chamber-empty condition and it's no less safe than a rock. And if you need it, you'll probably want more than 6 rounds anyway. At least that's my justification.
I like the aesthetics and simplicity of revolvers. The last wheel gun I shot was a Dan Wesson .357 that was tricked out for the LAPD precision shooting team, and it was the Nicest Revolver Ever. But for pure "need it right now" function, I like semi autos.
When I was buying my first handgun I wanted something that could do "everything", so to speak. I wanted home defense, I wanted field protection, I wanted a big caliber and I wanted something without problems of reliability. Fit was important too, but thats more of a personal thing and I really liked all the sigs I'd ever shot.
I ended up getting a Sig p220. Its still the only handgun I own and I dont feel I 'need' anything else in that department. I pair that with a heavy shooters belt and a blackhawk cqc holster when I'm in the field hunting and scouting. The belt supports the pistol weight (so my pants dont fall down) and I tighten the adjustable holster so the gun is in nice and tight to avoid any problems with it becoming accidentally dislodged by a branch or bending over or something while bushwhacking the backcountry. Works well for me.
Something I didnt think about when purchasing but I have thought about subsequently is the "range time" with a particular gun. This gun makes shooting for many hours at a time a breeze. I've attended 3-4 tactical handgun trainings and have put a few thousand rounds down range and have always felt like I could shoot a few thousand more without it being a grueling affair. Its a nice warm fuzzy feeling to be that comfortable with your weapon.
I know you're looking for something a little different than this, but I thought I'd share my experience on the topic.
I ended up getting a Sig p220. Its still the only handgun I own and I dont feel I 'need' anything else in that department. I pair that with a heavy shooters belt and a blackhawk cqc holster when I'm in the field hunting and scouting. The belt supports the pistol weight (so my pants dont fall down) and I tighten the adjustable holster so the gun is in nice and tight to avoid any problems with it becoming accidentally dislodged by a branch or bending over or something while bushwhacking the backcountry. Works well for me.
Something I didnt think about when purchasing but I have thought about subsequently is the "range time" with a particular gun. This gun makes shooting for many hours at a time a breeze. I've attended 3-4 tactical handgun trainings and have put a few thousand rounds down range and have always felt like I could shoot a few thousand more without it being a grueling affair. Its a nice warm fuzzy feeling to be that comfortable with your weapon.
I know you're looking for something a little different than this, but I thought I'd share my experience on the topic.
Mike S
Sponsor - AutoHomeUSA
I have several S&W stainless revolvers. They are flawless, well made, and reliable. That said, I carry a Colt series 80 Officer's Model .45 Auto. It is very small, flat, hold six rounds plus one in the snout if needed.
I also like the stainless Smith with shrouded hammer.
I do not think that the choice between .38, .357, .40, or .45 is important at all. If you have to use it, you will be firing at very close range, and even a .22 would give pause to a bad guy.
The key thing about a very concealable and lightweight pistol is not recoil. It is that the easier it is to carry, the more likely you are to be carrying it when you really need it.
Here's my Colt Officer's Model 45 ACP...
I also like the stainless Smith with shrouded hammer.
I do not think that the choice between .38, .357, .40, or .45 is important at all. If you have to use it, you will be firing at very close range, and even a .22 would give pause to a bad guy.
The key thing about a very concealable and lightweight pistol is not recoil. It is that the easier it is to carry, the more likely you are to be carrying it when you really need it.
Here's my Colt Officer's Model 45 ACP...
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FLYFISHEXPERT
LivingOverland.com
I am sorry, but in my opinion this is poor advice. Granted shot placement is 100x more important than caliber, you have to look at the facts about stopping power. I know everybody has their opinion on the subject and what I am about to say is, well, my own.Mike S said:
Do you want to "give pause to a bad guy," or do you want to stop a threat? Heck if all our military wanted to do was pause Al-Qaida we would be issuing .22's to our soldiers. The reports I have read and heard from police and soldiers is that even the 9mm being issued to both are often times inadequate in stopping individuals. There is a ton of debate on the ideal caliber. This is some advice to follow
As for reliability of revolvers vs autos, I think it is a moot point. Today's autos are designed very well - even with the increase in moving parts over the revolver. I believe you would be well served with either. Find one that is comfortable to handle, and spend some time at the range.gunblast.com said:
Mike S
Sponsor - AutoHomeUSA
I did not advise use of a .22 - but if you have a gun and are willing to use it, this is what makes someone re-think evil intent. It will kill but it is certainly not a stopper. As I said, I carry a 45 ACP. THAT is a pretty good stopper in a small package.
I also have a S&W 629 44 mag. I am unlikely to actually carry this gun much - it's too big and heavy. It goes into a shoulder holster when fishing where I might encounter a bear. It's a very nice gun, but not a CC candidate for anybody except Clint Eastwood.
M
I also have a S&W 629 44 mag. I am unlikely to actually carry this gun much - it's too big and heavy. It goes into a shoulder holster when fishing where I might encounter a bear. It's a very nice gun, but not a CC candidate for anybody except Clint Eastwood.
M
BigAl
Expedition Leader
This guy from gunblaster.com shot 3 people with 3 different weapons and witnessed the shooting of a 4th??? I guess that's possible, but... I'd guess it's more likey that it's advice from some guy with a big imagination, living off his mom's SS check.:snorkel:
flyfisher, I'm not questioning your expertise. These gun threads usually have some statement that just doesn't seem real.
flyfisher, I'm not questioning your expertise. These gun threads usually have some statement that just doesn't seem real.
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FLYFISHEXPERT
LivingOverland.com
BigAl said:
I totally understand where you are coming from. There is a lot of B.S. being blown up people's behinds. Here is some information on Campbell. I haven't read a lot of his writings, but what I have seems to follow information from Jeff Cooper and John Farnam.
gunblast.com said:
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WJinTRSC
Adventurer
A few other options
I am in a similar position and have been shopping for a while now. I also like the Walther PPS. In comparison, the Kahr CW-series and PM-series should also be considered. These three are very close w/ respect to thickness and have comparable capacities. Another is the Keltec PF9 which is smaller and still 9mm. It's also very light and dependable; cheap too in case you drop it off a mountain or it gets banged up(Again, I'm looking for one for the same reasons, but also daily CC). Another option is a CZ. If you're concerned w/ dependability of a semi-auto, chk this out.
http://www.cz-usa.com/media_releases.php?m=4&msgid=37
There is a lot of good information here, but bottom line, go feel the guns in your hand and shoot a lot and REGULARLY before and after you buy one.
For your state's laws on carrying or any other states you may travel though/to, check out www.usacarry.com
Best of luck!!!
I am in a similar position and have been shopping for a while now. I also like the Walther PPS. In comparison, the Kahr CW-series and PM-series should also be considered. These three are very close w/ respect to thickness and have comparable capacities. Another is the Keltec PF9 which is smaller and still 9mm. It's also very light and dependable; cheap too in case you drop it off a mountain or it gets banged up(Again, I'm looking for one for the same reasons, but also daily CC). Another option is a CZ. If you're concerned w/ dependability of a semi-auto, chk this out.
http://www.cz-usa.com/media_releases.php?m=4&msgid=37
There is a lot of good information here, but bottom line, go feel the guns in your hand and shoot a lot and REGULARLY before and after you buy one.
For your state's laws on carrying or any other states you may travel though/to, check out www.usacarry.com
Best of luck!!!
WhereTheHellIsJames?
Explorer
Update...
So I went to 3 shops today after work... none of them had the Walther PPS 9mm, and said that they didn't think that walther had made a second run of them yet.
However, I did have the opportunity to hold and "mess with" a bunch of different makes/models, and learned a lot. So far, the one that felt best is the S&W Model 60 .357 (3", Hi-Vis, Stainless) revolver. It fit my hand very nicely, but was pretty heavy. I liked the feel of one of the Tarus semiauto's, but it seemed rather non-precision and/or hastily built.
It seems that all three of the shops that I went to said that they were "pretty cleaned out", so I'll likely poke around at some others and look for something that fits my needs, and my hand. After today, I'm a lot more open to the semiauto's.
So I went to 3 shops today after work... none of them had the Walther PPS 9mm, and said that they didn't think that walther had made a second run of them yet.
However, I did have the opportunity to hold and "mess with" a bunch of different makes/models, and learned a lot. So far, the one that felt best is the S&W Model 60 .357 (3", Hi-Vis, Stainless) revolver. It fit my hand very nicely, but was pretty heavy. I liked the feel of one of the Tarus semiauto's, but it seemed rather non-precision and/or hastily built.
It seems that all three of the shops that I went to said that they were "pretty cleaned out", so I'll likely poke around at some others and look for something that fits my needs, and my hand. After today, I'm a lot more open to the semiauto's.