******** Cepek Fun Country II

[Redline]

Time to give these tires a thread of their own. I don't have much to share yet, as I only have a few hundred miles on them and very few off-highway. In the coming months they will see some on-road and off-highway trips. I don't expect any surprises, obviously they won't be 'awesome' if the snow or mud it too deep or wet, not as good as my Maxxis Bighorns (retired on my F350). Though they should do as well or better than most "all terrain" tires. I have read a few negative/neutral comments, but it seems that many owners like the FCII's performance in the winter... we shall see. For me it's a trade off as I prefer a LT255/85R16 but as we know choices are limited in that size.

Below is a link to a thread discussing the FCII and a few other tires, probably helpful to readers seriously considering the ******** Cepek FCII.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...4930&highlight=Cooper+S/T+********+Cepek+FCII

To start, a few pics of the new treads, all shot with my iPhone. These are LT285/75R16, load-range-D.

It was not obvious to me when viewing the advertising pictures, but the size of the outer lugs and "DC" sidewall lugs are of a varied size and pattern.

Initial Mounting & Balancing

Used the 'static' (single point, stick-on, tape weight) method of balance.
The tire/wheel combo weighs 83.0-lbs. Tires alone weigh 56-lbs. 56-lbs is less than some heavy 255/85, a bit more than others.

1st mount/balance by Discount Tire where I purchased them. Discount 'matched' a low mail order/online price.

#1 0.50 oz.
#2 3.00
#3 4.50, then rotated 90-degrees on the wheel, got it down to 3.75 oz.
#4 5.25, rotated 90-degrees, down to 3.50 oz.

2nd mount/balance by Les Schwab Tires. After a couple weeks I sold some tires/wheels and removed the FCII from a scuffed set of FJC TRD wheels and put them on a nicer set that have the original PSI sensors installed.

#1 1.75 oz.
#2 3.50
#3 5.50, rotated 180-degrees on wheel, down to 4.50 oz.
#4 5.50 oz. (left this alone because the 'road force' measurement was only 5-lbs)

A couple weeks later I had decided I was going to run this tire for a bit [what does that mean :sombrero: ] and purchased a 5th/spare.

#5 4.00 oz.

Noise, initial impressions.

On my quiet 4Runner, I rate the noise about the same as my Cooper STs in 255/85, maybe a bit quieter. Definitely quieter than the Maxxis Bighorns I removed from duty, but I haven't run a lot of AT tires to compare these too. They actually seemed a bit louder the first few miles, and then slightly quieter, as if the sharp edges on the new tires wore in a bit. Of course it could be my imagination or just getting used to a new tire.

The outer lugs with decent void do have a light 'mud' hum, but tread void is good for traction so there is always a trade off. I look forward to a more pleasant, quieter tire on long highway trips, I'm already enjoying it.

 

[Desert Dan]

I like the tread pattern...kinda like the old Norseman tires

 

[Redline]

Mini, Initial Off-Highway Test

Since I made front end alignment changes (caster) to help these tires run straight and true on-highway, I needed to insure that the FCII weren't horrible off-highway. A few hour test (slow and fast) on a nearby mountain was in order before finalizing the alignment settings.

The tires flexed well at 15-psi, about what I would expect from a load range D tire on this car. 15 psi has been my typical off-highway pressure for most of the 255/85 I have run. These 285s are mounted on 7.5" wheels not eights, so the sidewalls are pulled in a little more than on the 'standard' 8-inch wheel.

This pic below is with much of the car's weight shoved into a front tire on a little dip, dramatic flex on purpose @ 15-psi.

 

[Redline]

On the car

In the air, looks wider with this camera angle. You know the camera lies or tells the truth depending on your perspective ☺

 

[Redline]

One Ripped Lug

I believe this happened when haulin' at speed. As part of my initial test I drove fast on some whoops that have been a good testing ground for suspension set-up/clearance. I did rub a little (not much, they are shorter 32.8") with these and could have ripped this lug at that time. Though I think it was more likely when I was roaring down the main dirt road at what I might term a race pace. I was goosing the V8, using little brake, and there was some sliding that could have easily ripped this lug. My tires get used so this is not an indictment of the tire just the reality of any terrain use. :smiley_drive:

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Do you know if those are made by Cooper? Maybe on the Discoverer S/T carcass?

 

[Redline]

I Do know that they are made by Cooper. Cooper owns Mickey Thompson & ******** Cepek.

I think they may be made on the S/T carcass but I don't know that for sure.

Do you know if those are made by Cooper? Maybe on the Discoverer S/T carcass?

 

[FireGuy]

Any updates on the Fun Country's? I have suddenly found myself looking very hard at this particular tire. I was fortunate enough to tag along with some fairly hardcore jeepers who swore by the FCII's. I was surprised as I have never even considered the Cepek brand before.

We basically have the exact same 4runner with the exception that you are running full Bud Built skids, mine are on order.

 

[Redline]

Oct. 2009 Update

I don't have lots to share as the tires have seen mostly dry conditions and are still relatively new. They have 3,000-miles on them, and I will start my five tire rotation soon. They did just complete a 1,500-mile road trip to Arizona and back pulling my camping trailer.

On-road tread noise is 'moderate'. Not 'quiet' but not mud-terrain loud either. There is some hum but there is also more void than many all-terrains (BFG AT for example). There were only a couple times on long highway travel days (8-hours plus) when I was tired and I thought the noise was noteworthy. The thing to remember is that everything is relative- the tires are 'quiet' in my 4Runner when compared to the Maxxis Bighorns that I ran previously. If you are used to a very quiet all-season tire then the FCII will be loud in comparison.

They drive straight and smooth down the highway, even after some low pressure 4x4 time. I have a sense that their one nylon ply might make them a little floppy after a cold night until they warm-up, but I don't have any cold temp experience to base this on.

I have used them in dry conditions off-highway a few times and have no complaints. These load-range-D tires ride and flex very well. I can run a few more PSI than usual and still obtain very good off-highway flex or on-road ride. Some may not care for a load-range-D tire, but I refer them, as on a lighter vehicle I have no need for a load-range-E.

During the Overland Training course I recently attended, while doing some sand driving practice (with my KK trailer attached), I deflated the Fun Countrys down to 8-PSI in front and 12-PSI in the rear (KK tires down to 5-PSI). The 7.5" wide Toyota TRD wheels were holding the beads tightly and it was going to take much deeper/softer/drier sand to get the Mall Crawler stuck; we tried. I don't play in the sand much but think their sand performance is very good. Of course the low pressures made a world of difference.

The real tests are ahead this Winter in the snow and ice, and whenever I find myself in some mud. I don't look for mud but sometimes it finds me. We do see our share of moderate on-road snow & ice, so by next Summer I hope to have some strong opinions. Some people swear by these tires, particularly in Winter conditions, we shall see if my experiences are the same. In sloppy on-road snowy slush I expect them to be a bit less capable than an MT with more void, but with 20/32” of tread they should evacuate a fair amount of wet junk.

 

[Teton Jack]

Great Research on ******** Cepeck FC II

Redline,

I just spent an hour reading all your threads on expedition portal regarding your tire dilema...fantastic research and blog!!

I'm just as anal about my tires and have narrowed my choices to the FC II's 315/70/R17's (35x12.5) or the Goodyear Duratrac same size. This is my dilema:

I love both tires for a crossover AT / Mudder...like you, I spend a good chunk of time in the Sierras or Tetons... so snow/ ice capabilities are a must. But I travel on plenty of expedition trips where I need an aggresive tread. Currently I'm running 285/75/R17 Toyos...I liked the tire for a good and strong AT; thier load rating is huge 3950 or something per tire w/ a 3 ply sidewall. But, they just aren't agressive enough for my style, especially the lack of sidewall tread. I thought about the TOYO MT's...but I'm worried about them on ice.

So, to my two choices...my biggest fear is the wieght of my truck (07' 4x4 dodge cummins with a fourwheel pop top in the rear-this isn't a super heavy camper if you know the company). Both tires are D rated and only a 2ply sidewall. I see you've owned diesel in the past, so I value your input. In defense of both tires, while they are D rated, thier load rating is good at 3195-duratracs and 3000-FC II's. Do you think this is an issue with a truck as big as mine.

They made these Cepeks for big vehicles...so I'm not too concerned...I'm just anal about the details...I want the best. And the Fun Countries, especially in the 315 size, have a great look and a 20/32 lug vs. the norm 18/32 lug depth you get in the duratracs.

What do you think buddy...I've been stressing over these details...especially since I'm moving to a bigger tire than I'm used to.

Thanks for the input

C.J.

 

[Redline]

Redline,

I just spent an hour reading all your threads on expedition portal regarding your tire dilema...fantastic research and blog!!

Thanks. If you read all my tire threads/posts in an hour you must be a 'speed reader'

So, to my two choices...my biggest fear is the wieght of my truck (07' 4x4 dodge cummins with a fourwheel pop top in the rear-this isn't a super heavy camper if you know the company). Both tires are D rated and only a 2ply sidewall. I see you've owned diesel in the past, so I value your input. In defense of both tires, while they are D rated, thier load rating is good at 3195-duratracs and 3000-FC II's. Do you think this is an issue with a truck as big as mine.

Yes, I have some diesel truck experience and still have a diesel pickup. I'm familiar with the Four Wheel Camper and have considered owning one...

First I say weigh your truck on a scale, front and rear axles separately. Knowing the weight on each axle (and the gross weight) is very valuable information when it comes to loading. I do this often. Unless you have a very heavy tool box in the bed, there will be more weight on the front axle of an empty pickup, particularly with that Cummins engine up front. The Four Wheel being a relatively light pop-up, it will likely do a good job of equalizing the weight on both axles. Having loaded my truck heavy many times, it takes quite a load to surpass the weight carrying ability of a proper LT tire (properly inflated for the load), but I have done it a couple times (and knew I did it because I went to the scales).

It appears that the DC FCII don't come in a "315" but the flotation size of: 35X12.50R17LT, I assume this is what you might buy? These tires are rated for almost 400-lbs less per axle, but I would be surprised if you needed more than 6,000-lbs of tire capacity on the rear axle (if you needed more than 6k on the front, your front axle would be beyond the GAWR). If the tires are rated to carry 6k then you can load them to 6k. If you want an extra margin that is up to you. What is a fully loaded Four Wheel on your Dodge going to weigh, maybe 2,000-lbs max? I would guess your ‘wet' rear axle load is around 3,500-lbs depending on your cab configuration, options and aftermarket accessories. So a total of 5,500-lbs for the rear axle is probably in the ballpark depending on how heavy the Four Wheel is when loaded.

I have run load-range-D tires for years and prefer them as you have likely read. Having an appropriate load rating is the key. One advantage to a load-range-E in your application "might be" (depends on the tire & construction) a stiffer tire carcass that will reduce flexing and help the tire stay cooler. I had a set of Maxxis Bravo ATs in 255/85R16 that were load range D but had a 3-ply sidewall and a 6-ply tread! Maxxis' literature says this is to help deduce flexing and heat, but the tire is still "only" a load range D.

Also note the weight of the tires in the sizes you are considering. The FCIIs weigh 66-lbs while the DuraTrac weigh 60. This might be an indication as to the construction, maybe the DC FCII is a stouter tire? Maybe not. But the FCII is surely larger at 34.9" compared to the DuraTrac 34.4". The FCII also has the extra 2/32" of tread. These differences of size and tread probably make up at least some of the weight difference. How about tread plies not just sidewall plies. Most LT tires only have 2-ply sidewalls so I don't worry about that (I like how a 2-ply rides), but how many and what is the construction of the tread plies? Does one have more than the other? You might need to call the manufacturers to get a proper answer (and even then, be specific about the size).

They made these Cepeks for big vehicles...so I'm not too concerned...I'm just anal about the details...I want the best. And the Fun Countries, especially in the 315 size, have a great look and a 20/32 lug vs. the norm 18/32 lug depth you get in the duratracs.

Ultimately, if everything is equal or almost a wash, I suggest you buy the tire with the tread design you like the most. After reading your post I saw a Tundra pickup in a parking lot today with DuraTracs on it- I think DuraTracs have slightly more void, but that void only has an open escape route through the outermost tread rib at every other set of blocks/lugs. Still, they look to have a bit more void. The FCII have the same void space at the outer lugs all the way around (although the size of the blocks is different, very hard to see in pictures). The siping looked similar, nice seagull shapes, likely good for winter. Sidewall tread looks slightly less on the DuraTrac than the "DC" letters on the side of the FCII. I think I prefer the appearance of the DCII tread and sidewall (as an attractive design, not commenting on the void).

I also like that the FCII have a deep 20/32" of tread depth in some sizes. It's far too early to tell much, but I did just do my first FCII rotation this morning. After 3,100-miles the tread is down 1/32". Who knows what the long-term wear rate will be, but at 1/32" per 3,000-miles these tires have the potential to last a very long time depending on how they are used and how little tread one is willing to drive on in off-highway conditions or on wet roads.

 

[Redline]

http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/wheels-tires/83671-goodyear-dura-trac-tires-10.html

Since the Goodyear DuraTracs were compared to the FCII in the last two posts, here is a related link regarding the DuraTracs from the FJC Forum.

Some posters there appear to dislike the traction of the DuraTrac, but most importantly state the tires don't have full depth siping (can anyone confirm this?). When comparing the DuraTrac to the Cepek FCII it needs to be noted that that FCII has 'full depth' siping and it likely a better winter, all weather tire because of this as they wear.

 

[Redline]

Aussie Review

While some users seem to love the FCII [it is a 'think different' tire ] it clearly isn't hugely popular like the BFG AT and info on the web can be hard to find. Above is a link to one online review, I'll post the text below.

Ron Moon Product Test: F-C II

Dear Terry,

Over the years I've tested a lot of tyres on four wheel drive vehicles and before we put words into print or form an opinion that's worthy of holding any weight we've run most of them for 20,000km over a wide variety of roads and terrain. So it was with this set of Mickey Thompson F-C II's but the big difference for this 20,000km test was that we were heavily loaded for the whole jaunt and more than 50% of the distance covered was either on dirt roads, 4WD tracks or across country. It was the toughest test of a set of tyres that I've ever done - bar none!

On the blacktop, which in Australia is normally coarse-chip bitumen, the F-C II's are quieter than any muddie around. They grip well on the blacktop, whether it is wet or dry, with little sign or feel of 'tram lining' and with handling that is commensurate of any 75% profile tyre. Under hard braking they are as good as the best of them.

But it was off-road, on dirt roads and 4WD tracks that the tyres excelled. We punished these tyres mercilessly for three months in all sorts of terrain from cross country jaunts in the desert, rock hopping in the Kimberley, mud and slop in the Gulf and stony trails in the Pilbara and the goldfields of WA to soft sand on the beaches of the North-West.

In sand the F-C II's performed extremely well, bagging and floating over the soft stuff with ease. In mud they performed reasonably well - better than a conventional AT tyre.

Checking the tyres when we got home I was surprised by the lack of chips and stone damage on the tread of the tyres and the lack of bits missing from the edge of the tread blocks. They had survived the 12,000km of rocks and dirt extremely well.

The rear tyre that had done the whole 20,000km of dirt and blacktop was down to about 9mm in tread depth and at that rate good for another 22,000km at least. The other rear tyre, which had clocked up something like 13,000km had 12.5mm and was good for another 35-40,000km. The two front tyres, which had also seen all the action of our trip were down to 11.2mm and as such had another 35-40,000km plus in front of them. Swapping them around would balance up the tyre life a little, but I was more than happy with the tread wear.

In fact, I'm so happy with these tyres and their continuing good behaviour on the blacktop now that we're back home, I'll be very reluctant to change them for anything else.

Ron Moon
Editor-at-Large, 4x4 Australia

 

[Redline]

2nd Hand Report

This afternoon I saw an old acquaintance at the post office. Chris drives a lifted mall crawler H2 with Fun Countrys. I see him infrequently, but knew he drives an H2 but didn't know it has Fun Countrys on it. He's running the 38x15.50R20LT size, a tire size no longer listed on ******** Cepek's website, but I found them other places on the web.

Chris is an average/typical truck owner, not super 'into' his ride but I asked him a few questions about the tires and he said:

Wear:

The FCIIs looked really good to me and Chris said the tires had at least 30,000-miles on them. At a glance they looked to have about 11/32" remaining (orig. tread was 21/32"). He has them rotated regularly.

These numbers are only estimates but are plausible. What's very impressive about this data is that ‘IF' the above estimates are correct, Chris is getting about 3,000-miles per 1/32” of tread on a big, lifted, heavy mall crawler. About the same rate of wear that I logged after my first tire rotation with a smaller size tire on a smaller car.

Noise:

Noise is a very hard area to quantify, but his opinion is that the tires are quiet for how aggressive they are.

Snow Traction:

As we stood out in the snow talking about the FCIIs, he said the winter traction is very good, even now when they are about 1/2 worn (though admittedly not as good as new).

Unbeknownst to me, the same local shop that installed my gears/lockers and has done other work for me also installed Chris' lift and sold him the FCII tires. He said the shop owner recommended the the Fun Countrys. I'm sure the recommendation had much to do with FCII's reputation for good wear.

Other:

Chris said that the tires are too wide and are killing his power-steering and MPG. Of course that's not a Fun Country problem, it's a result our fat-tire fascination.

Although Chris likes the Fun Countrys, he is probably going to try a set of Toyos next because he wants something different. He plans to run a narrower tire but maybe 40" tall. I'm confident he isn't going to get the same wear out of a set of Toyos, whether they are MTs or ATs.

 

[Redline]

6,000-miles

For a couple reasons this season, including a heavier than normal winter weather, I have been doing more daily driving in the 4Runner, putting on miles more quickly than usual. Yesterday I did my second rotation after an additional 2,858-miles. The FCII now have a total of 5,941 (s)miles on them.

Tread Depth

The spare/5th tire that just finished its first stint on the ground was down to 19/32” (from 20/32&#8221, the same as the first four after the initial 3,000-miles.

The other three were down to about 18/32”. ‘About' because they might be a bit above 18, but it's like splitting hairs to try and determine ‘exactly' where the crude little gauge is indicating. 18/32” is consistent with the first rotation, netting about 3,000-miles per 1/32” of tread; very good.

Torque Steer/Pull

My full-time 4x4 V8 4Runner has a history of being very sensitive to different tires and alignment settings. In fact, the cross-caster was adjusted specifically for these tires, biased strongly to prevent a pull to the right. I WON'T BLAME THESE TIRES at this point because my 4Runner has a track record of this quirkiness after testing and using many different treads. Until I know otherwise I will blame the car.

For the first 6,000-miles there were no issues. After performing a second 5-tire rotation last night, the first drive exhibited a pronounced pull to the left. The tires were at 31-PSI cold, where I have been running them for a few months.

This evening I swapped the fronts side to side, and the car drives much better, but maybe with a slight pull to the right and influenced by the throttle. Only having time for a short 10-mile drive, I will continue to evaluate the ‘pull' and swap the tires around as needed.

I really wanted to do five tire rotations, to help make these long lasting tires last even longer. But If I have one ‘bad' tire that I can isolate as ‘the issue' then it might have to live a lonely life on the tire carrier.