Chevy Colorado ZR2 Bison, COMING SOON!

[DaveInDenver]

Perfect truck for me would the size of a 1st Gen Tacoma, 2000 lbs payload...and 30 mpg....OTD at $25K, it will never exist...well at least here in America.

It does exist, but you know that. A Workmate Hilux! It really would be nice if Toyota would just drop the SR trim Tacoma and offer a Hilux for fleets and cheapskates. If you want a truck that competes with a Ridgeline, get a Tacoma. If you want a truck for work, get a Hilux.

It is really splitting hairs. If a person can't put a 1/2 ton or Hell even some 3/4-1 Tons (like a RCLB or Extra Cab SB) in the same spots as a midsize they need to look at their driving abilities.

Saying these new midsizes are more nimble than a current fullsize is laughable. (that wasn't directed at you)

No, obviously not "more" nimble but a pickup has always been a compromise. Even my old truck was less nimble strictly speaking than an FJ40 or Jeep and those are less nimble than a Samarai or Razr. Don't neglect that mini trucks have been hacked to reduce rear overhang and change wheelbases to make them better 'wheelers for a long time before a Tacoma ever existed.

It's a trade-off and I think the point is other than being a little bigger, the extra body cladding (flares are stupid IMO) and having more sheet metal hanging down my real life experience is my Taco isn't actually that much *less* nimble than my old truck. There is benefit of more power and better highway ride.

I still think it's bloated and the cabin feels unnecessarily cramped (why make the truck wider if you're not giving me more shoulder room?) compared to my old truck. But that's a stylistic issue with interior designers going nuts and probably because doors that will actually take a side impact are necessarily thicker.

 

[Clutch]

I still see the mid-sized trucks (Tacoma, Frontier, Colorado and future Ranger) as offering distinct advantages over "bigger" trucks when it comes to mobility, not to mention cost of ownership (purchase, fuel, maintenance). .

Yeah, I sure don't...

The cab configuration I like is a Extra Cab 6' bed. A Tacoma V6 ACLB is going to cost me at the very least $35K...I can get an F150 with a 2.7 Ecoboost a couple ground under that.... which lays down 400 ft lbs of torque at 2750 rpm, while getting a couple ticks over 20 mpg. You can run C range tires on both of them. Cost of ownership is going to be a wash.


Heck, I just found a F250 SCLB locally for $33K...sure E rated tires and fuel is going to cost me...but is it? A typical Expo Overloaded Taco will get 10-12 mpg....not seeing any advantage.

 

[Clutch]

It does exist, but you know that. A Workmate Hilux! It really would be nice if Toyota would just drop the SR trim Tacoma and offer a Hilux for fleets and cheapskates. If you want a truck that competes with a Ridgeline, get a Tacoma. If you want a truck for work, get a Hilux.

Ha ha! Yeah, that chaps my hide...it exists everywhere else but here.

I looked at the Ridgeline hard...too much money to give up offroad prowl-ness.

No, obviously not "more" nimble but a pickup has always been a compromise. Even my old truck was less nimble strictly speaking than an FJ40 or Jeep and those are less nimble than a Samarai or Razr. Don't neglect that mini trucks have been hacked to reduce rear overhang and change wheelbases to make them better 'wheelers for a long time before a Tacoma ever existed.

It's a trade-off and I think the point is other than being a little bigger, the extra body cladding (flares are stupid IMO) and having more sheet metal hanging down my real life experience is my Taco isn't actually that much *less* nimble than my old truck. There is benefit of more power and better highway ride.

I still think it's bloated and the cabin feels unnecessarily cramped (why make the truck wider if you're not giving me more shoulder room?) compared to my old truck. But that's a stylistic issue with interior designers going nuts and probably because doors that will actually take a side impact are necessarily thicker.

Well, there are varying degrees of nimble-ness (nothing can really touch a dirt bike or trials bike that is if you "really want" to go off-roading)

Looking at what is popular in the US. The Crew Cab Stumpy Bed...between a midsize and a fullsize...not seeing much of an advantage...and especially when they cost the same...heck the fullsize can be found for a little less, if you look.


Yeah, the cab does feel cramped on the 2nd and 3rd Gen over my 1st gen even if they are bigger...just odd. One of the first things I noticed when I test drove a 3rd gen...truck feels bigger & heavier, yet feel closed in.

 

[Dalko43]

The cab configuration I like is a Extra Cab 6' bed. A Tacoma V6 ACLB is going to cost me at the very least $35K...I can get an F150 with a 2.7 Ecoboost a couple ground under that.... which lays down 400 ft lbs of torque at 2750 rpm, while getting a couple ticks over 20 mpg. You can run C range tires on both of them. Cost of ownership is going to be a wash.

I have my doubts on the ecoboost's (both the 2.7 and the 3.5) efficiency under realistic driving and working conditions. I think it does fairly well when it's driven empty and moderately. But in realistic scenarios, those turbo gasolines really aren't as efficient as the EPA ratings advertise.

And yes, you can option a base F-150 to be about the same as mid-trim Tacoma, but I'd still go with the Tacoma for that price point. I am not a fan of the new F-150; as good as it is, I think it's bloated (I dislike the fact that it shares a cab with the Super Duty) and it's about as common as Lululemon yoga pants. All the truck bro's who want to throw on huge rims and a cheap lift for mainstreet cruises seem to gravitate towards that truck (and the Silverado). I know I shouldn't let that affect my opinion of the truck itself, but I am admittedly biased against the F-150 because of it.

Heck, I just found a F250 SCLB locally for $33K...sure E rated tires and fuel is going to cost me...but is it? A typical Expo Overloaded Taco will get 10-12 mpg....not seeing any advantage.

Yep, but you don't have to overload the Taco if you don't want to. You can keep the Taco stock or put very mild modifications into it and maintain the truck's driving characteristics and half-decent fuel economy.

 

[Clutch]

I have my doubts on the ecoboost's (both the 2.7 and the 3.5) efficiency under realistic driving and working conditions. I think it does fairly well when it's driven empty and moderately. But in realistic scenarios, those turbo gasolines really aren't as efficient as the EPA ratings advertise.

And yes, you can option a base F-150 to be about the same as mid-trim Tacoma, but I'd still go with the Tacoma for that price point. I am not a fan of the new F-150; as good as it is, I think it's bloated (I dislike the fact that it shares a cab with the Super Duty) and it's about as common as Lululemon yoga pants. All the truck bro's who want to throw on huge rims and a cheap lift for mainstreet cruises seem to gravitate towards that truck (and the Silverado). I know I shouldn't let that affect my opinion of the truck itself, but I am admittedly biased against the F-150 because of it.

What I am saying is...you get more of a truck going with the F150 over the Taco...for damn near the same price and nearly identical mpg's empty or loaded down.


Everything is bloated now-a-days...I don't like the looks of any of the new trucks, all are painful to look at. So with that said...I look at what I can get with the same amount of money. What does $35K buy me? A lot of options out there at that price point. Broken record here, as much as I am a Toyota Tacoma fan boy....it isn't on the list anymore. Midsizes are too much too late...

Yep, but you don't have to overload the Taco if you don't want to. You can keep the Taco stock or put very mild modifications into it and maintain the truck's driving characteristics and half-decent fuel economy.

Oh sure, and I do....I max out my payload at about 700-800 lbs, and don't tow anything a regular basis more than 1500 lbs. My moto trailer with 2 bikes is just shy of 1500#, which gets towed once or twice a week. Seems to be the sweet spot for my Tacoma.

I just said what I said..because it seems most of the Expedition Style mods with "other" Tacoma owners, they go well beyond what it is capable of. How many threads aways pop up in the Toyota section about how to increase payload and towing? A lot right? You're one of the main guys who knows his ******** on the subject, and always tends to comment.

If you're going to toss on a Four Wheel Camper or similar. What would you choose? I know I would go with the F250. The Tacoma will struggle and be over max payload, and the F250 won't even know it is back there.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Everything is bloated now-a-days...I don't like the looks of any of the new trucks, all are painful to look at. So with that said...I look at what I can get with the same amount of money. What does $35K buy me?

Well $35K buys you a SR5 4 cylinder 4x4 Access Cab Tacoma with $6K left in your pocket but with a F150 XLT, with the base 3.3L V6 and 4x2, you'll still need another $1K. To get a 4x4 F150 XLT you'll need $39k and that's before you look at Ecoboost. But to be fair the XL trim is probably sufficient and a 4x4 F150 Supercab with the base V6 is what I'd be looking at too and that's $35,220. That's $9,000 more than the SR 4 cylinder 4x4 Access Cab. It's really not that close unless you go with a high end spec Tacoma.

 

[Clutch]

Well $35K buys you a SR5 4 cylinder 4x4 Access Cab Tacoma with $6K left in your pocket but with a F150 XLT, with the base 3.3L V6 and 4x2, you'll still need another $1K. To get a 4x4 F150 XLT you'll need $39k and that's before you look at Ecoboost. But to be fair the XL trim is probably sufficient and a 4x4 F150 Supercab with the base V6 is what I'd be looking at too and that's $35,220. That's $9,000 more than the SR 4 cylinder 4x4 Access Cab. It's really not that close unless you go with a high end spec Tacoma.

Need to go look on the dealers lots. Than the web builder. Ford has more incentives than Toyota.

I can find F-150's and a few F250's sub $35K all day long.

http://www.mountainhomeford.net/new...0a0e0ae8145e712d605e03e3.htm?searchDepth=2:19



And here what a V6 ACLB Tacoma is going for in my area.

https://www.tomscotttoyota.com/new/Toyota/2018-Toyota-Tacoma--afdb2fb70a0e0a1709936d81f61fbd2c.htm

 

[DaveInDenver]

LOL. I haven't been to a dealer lot to shop in, well, ever since we've never bought a car directly from one. So, fair enough, you're more on top of these things than I.

What's the point of advertising a price +$12,000 more than is set in the actual shop? Wouldn't the dealer want to start at a price higher than you finally negotiate? I'm assuming they can only go down from that $30,862, is what I mean. So you'd actually pay even less than that, right?

Given your posted reality I agree you're getting less with a Tacoma than an F150 for your money. I might have suggested a value difference, in that you'd only pay for a Tacoma once in the same time you'll have to buy two F150s, but I don't know if that's a true statement anymore.

 

[Tex68w]

Ford's can be had for $10-12K off sticker almost daily. They have silly incentives and they show them because if they don't the potential buyer will go to the dealer down the street and buy one. They aren't in business of hiding rebates and incentives lol, they want those to lure the customer in and instead of them buying an XL or XLT maybe then they will bump up a trim level or two to a more expensive truck they didn't initially consider seeing how much they are saving.

 

[Dalko43]

I just said what I said..because it seems most of the Expedition Style mods with "other" Tacoma owners, they go well beyond what it is capable of. How many threads aways pop up in the Toyota section about how to increase payload and towing? A lot right? You're one of the main guys who knows his **** on the subject, and always tends to comment.

I wouldn't say I know my s#$t on the subject. I just put more stock in OEM ratings and recommendations than what random people claim on the internet.

If you're going to toss on a Four Wheel Camper or similar. What would you choose? I know I would go with the F250. The Tacoma will struggle and be over max payload, and the F250 won't even know it is back there.

If we're talking about a camper, a 1/2 ton or bigger makes more sense. No debate from me on that. But if you don't want or need that much payload, I think the midsized trucks work very well in their intended purpose. most of the 1/2 ton's (perhaps excluding regular cabs) are a bit bigger than your average mid-sized. So for people who want to be able drive their truck to work and for daily errands but still go exploring on the weekends, I think they mid-sized trucks make sense.

Also, your price comparison is a bit skewed. You're comparing the most popular mid-sized pickup (Tacoma, which fetches far higher prices relative to its competitors) to the most common 1/2 ton on the market (economies of scale and parts commonality help with Ford's pricing for the F-150).

You can easily find Frontiers and Colorado's (both 4x4) for $22k-$23k. So mid-sized trucks are cheaper, as long as you don't buy the one that has a cult following.

 

[Clutch]

I wouldn't say I know my s#$t on the subject. I just put more stock in OEM ratings and recommendations than what random people claim on the internet.

You and Dave know your stuff. I may give ya a hard time every now and then, but I do respect your knowledge.

If we're talking about a camper, a 1/2 ton or bigger makes more sense. No debate from me on that. But if you don't want or need that much payload, I think the midsized trucks work very well in their intended purpose. most of the 1/2 ton's (perhaps excluding regular cabs) are a bit bigger than your average mid-sized. So for people who want to be able drive their truck to work and for daily errands but still go exploring on the weekends, I think they mid-sized trucks make sense.

I use my truck as a daily and a weekend warrior. So I fit that profile....F150 vs Tacoma...I would go with the F150. A couple years ago I wouldn't...but now I would.

Also, your price comparison is a bit skewed. You're comparing the most popular mid-sized pickup (Tacoma, which fetches far higher prices relative to its competitors) to the most common 1/2 ton on the market (economies of scale and parts commonality help with Ford's pricing for the F-150).

I think it is good comparison...two of the most popular models out there. Many a thread on Tacoma World of comparing those two. ...and really does anyone really pay attention to the Frontier and the Colorado?

Maybe this AEV Colorado Botox version or what ever they are calling it...and it is going to cost what $50K+??? For a bunch of bolt-on ****************...

You can easily find Frontiers and Colorado's (both 4x4) for $22k-$23k. So mid-sized trucks are cheaper, as long as you don't buy the one that has a cult following.

Yep, sure can. Really good deals on those right now. Though I think the Nissan Titan is the best deal out there right now. I can find RCLB, and SCSB around the $25K mark.
Take a little dive on mpg's, but that V8 has some great hp/tq numbers.

Went and looked at one last week, was thinking it was hideous, but all not that bad in person, still bad...but I could tolerate looking at it from the interior which was nice. Now I wouldn't pay $35K for it, but I would put up with its' horrid looks for $25K.

LOL. I haven't been to a dealer lot to shop in, well, ever since we've never bought a car directly from one. So, fair enough, you're more on top of these things than I.

What's the point of advertising a price +$12,000 more than is set in the actual shop? Wouldn't the dealer want to start at a price higher than you finally negotiate? I'm assuming they can only go down from that $30,862, is what I mean. So you'd actually pay even less than that, right?

Given your posted reality I agree you're getting less with a Tacoma than an F150 for your money. I might have suggested a value difference, in that you'd only pay for a Tacoma once in the same time you'll have to buy two F150s, but I don't know if that's a true statement anymore.

I think some of it is to get you in the door, as Tex68w said...and then upsell you. But I have been on a couple lots recently, and asked them what their no BS price, yep sure enough below $35K. Some sub $30K on the left over '17 models. Believe we have 6 Ford dealers that are within a 1/2-1 hour drive from our house.

 

[Dalko43]

Maybe this AEV Colorado Botox version or what ever they are calling it...and it is going to cost what $50K+??? For a bunch of bolt-on ****************...

The cost is up there, I agree. But it's no different from someone spending $60k on a mid-trim Ram 2500 and then spending an additional $15k-$20k for AEV packages. Or spending $60k on a Raptor + $10k-$15k in additional upgrades. Some people tend to spend boat loads of money on their vehicles.

Many a thread on Tacoma World of comparing those two. ...and really does anyone really pay attention to the Frontier and the Colorado?

The Frontier...no. But the pricing and package being offered is decent IMHO. The Colorado...yes. GM has been selling close to 150k annually over the last 2 years...a lot of people are paying attention to it.

 

[Clutch]

The cost is up there, I agree. But it's no different from someone spending $60k on a mid-trim Ram 2500 and then spending an additional $15k-$20k for AEV packages. Or spending $60k on a Raptor + $10k-$15k in additional upgrades. Some people tend to spend boat loads of money on their vehicles.

Yep, people like to blow wads of money on their vehicles.

Even though I am gear head, never been into modding my own vehicles too-too much. Barely above stock is good enough for me...amazing how many places you can go with hardly any bling.

Years ago we were doing some mild rock crawling, can't remember the difficulty number, but had to be somewhat careful. I was getting ready to crawl up a VW bug sized rock formation...and some dude in jacked up Chevy Blazer was making fun of me, "no way you can do that...no way dude! You're gonna destroy your truck!" My Tacoma was bone stock at the time, it walked right up with no issue....shut him up right quick.

The Frontier...no. But the pricing and package being offered is decent IMHO. The Colorado...yes. GM has been selling close to 150k annually over the last 2 years...a lot of people are paying attention to it.

I have looked at the Frontier...not a bad little truck and at great prices right now. Not sure why they don't sell. Must be that whole latest and greatest thing. Which is odd the Tacoma is just a rehashed version of the same old thing...and they sell like hot cakes. I don't get it. ...and I am (or was?) a Toyota fan boy.

Good to hear on the Collie...haven't paid too much attention to them. Now we are getting a bunch on the road, we can start having some data on reliability and resale.

 

[DaveInDenver]

The Frontier...no. But the pricing and package being offered is decent IMHO. The Colorado...yes. GM has been selling close to 150k annually over the last 2 years...a lot of people are paying attention to it.

I imagine the Colorado being a domestic has some advantage but it seems the diesel does, too. I wonder how quick it'd pop up on the radar if Nissan dropped a current EPA-legal version of the 2.8L Cummins diesel in the Frontier. Man, bet that would pique some interest.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I fully fail to see the point of a TRD Pro or ZR2 as well. The advantage to compact/midsize trucks to me is since I don't need a full size I might as well get the benefit of easier to park, easier to squeeze down trails, easier on fuel and cheaper to buy. But the market doesn't seem to agree when the Tacoma was really the only game left. As a result the trucks lost these advantages and I really am excited to see competition in the segment because hopefully some of those traits will sneak back in.

I disagree, and so does the market actually. When GM had to add a third shift in Wentzville, Ford took notice, and rushed the new Ranger into production. There are now 4 (5 if you include the Ridgeline) mid-size trucks on the market.

Yes, they are not as small as an original minitruck, but they're still far easier to deal with around town. And they can actually fit in Jeep trails. Nobody off-roads full-size around here, because they simply do not fit. Period. (10 years of this, I've never, ever seen a full-size on a trail, not one).

And I'd never buy a 3/4 ton regardless of price. I simply don't like driving a vehicle that makes me feel like a bobblehead due to the stiff suspension. Was forced to take a long highway ride, and then logging roads in a GM 2500 for work a few months ago. Awful, awful experience.