Chevy Colorado ZR2 Bison, COMING SOON!

[R_Lefebvre]

I don't see GM pumping out a special edition anywhere close to the AEV concept seen in the video if at all and it sounds like AEV has no intentions of offering one either. The cost is just too inhibitive when compared to the full-size options already being produced. The ZR2 is a worthy entry to the category and it appears that the soon to be released Ford Ranger Raptor will be as well.

I really doubt the AEV Colorado as shown will ever be available. It's just typical SEMA stupidity. It can't even be driven. The tires don't clear. They just push it around the shows.

And I also don't think the Ranger Raptor will ever come to the US either. Ford doesn't have plans for that. From what I'm hearing, it's dark days coming for Ford as their new CEO is likely to slash ALL special vehicle engineering.

 

[Clutch]

Yes, they are not as small as an original minitruck, but they're still far easier to deal with around town. And they can actually fit in Jeep trails. Nobody off-roads full-size around here, because they simply do not fit. Period. (10 years of this, I've never, ever seen a full-size on a trail, not one).

Does anyone even off-road jeeps and trucks anymore? All I see around here are mostly UTVs/ATVs in the back country...and I am usually out once or twice a week on the dirt bike. And it is mostly 1/2-1 Ton trucks parked at the trailhead as tow vehicles. I am usually the only one with a mini-truck...at least in my area.

Like Dave I don't see the point of the Raptor, ZR2, TRD Pro etc...basically look tough vehicles that really don't get used in the dirt. People do buy them, and I do see them...just never off-road. It is an image thing mostly, and that sells! Since I live out West...what I do see out there are ranchers in bone stock 3/4-1 Tons. We think we are all ************ with our jacked up modded vehicles with nurblely tires...and here comes a rancher way out in the middle of nowhere in a bone stock truck on street tires pulling a stock trailer. And I think to myself "how in the Hell did he get that thing in here!?" All the while that is a normal day to day thing for him/her.

And I'd never buy a 3/4 ton regardless of price. I simply don't like driving a vehicle that makes me feel like a bobblehead due to the stiff suspension. Was forced to take a long highway ride, and then logging roads in a GM 2500 for work a few months ago. Awful, awful experience.

Must be all relative, because I think they ride pretty nice. Took my buddy's F250 to go fetch an injure rider stuck in some out of the way hole...thought it rode great. Of course I grew driving leaf sprung 3/4-1 Tons...the new trucks today ride like Cadillacs.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

It's been a while since I off-roaded the truck, so I'm not sure... I stopped doing trails because all the Jeeps on 44's hogged them all out and made them impassible for anything streetable. But I don't think the UTV's are going on the Jeep trails either. They just don't have big enough tires, and will just get stuck in the same mud holes my 31" tire Land Rover does. And the 4-seat UTV'S have longer wheelbase, and probably worse breakover angles than my Rover. I pretty much only off-road on bikes anymore. Not many people want to drive a UTV through this crap. This was a Class 1 trail. But they've all been destroyed by Jeepers.



My thing, is that I want a sportscar, or really; a rally car. But nobody makes anything that is livable anymore (WRX comes with 18's and rubber band tires). And I need a truck for towing. The ZR2 is the closest thing to a rally car you can get these days. WAY more fun to drive than any full-size could dream to be. The DSSV shocks are magic. And it can tow my trailers and racecar just fine.

And yes, will be using it for dirt roads and logging roads.

Must be all relative, because I think they ride pretty nice.

Yes, it is relative. Ever driven a Rover or a mid-size pickup with good shocks off-road? In that 2500 HD we almost had a really horrible crash trying to move quickly down a dirt road when axle skate set in. Never would have happened in my Rover or Nissan. ZR2 will glide over the same thing like a magic carpet.

 

[Clutch]

It's been a while since I off-roaded the truck, so I'm not sure... I stopped doing trails because all the Jeeps on 44's hogged them all out and made them impassible for anything streetable. But I don't think the UTV's are going on the Jeep trails either. They just don't have big enough tires, and will just get stuck in the same mud holes my 31" tire Land Rover does. And the 4-seat UTV'S have longer wheelbase, and probably worse breakover angles than my Rover. I pretty much only off-road on bikes anymore. Not many people want to drive a UTV through this crap. This was a Class 1 trail. But they've all been destroyed by Jeepers.

I live in a state that has a low population density (Idaho) maybe that is the reason I don't see much...however we are big into the outdoors here...if you're not into some outdoor activity something is wrong with you. While there are people who do "wheel" but a truck is mainly used to haul other toys to the trail head.

My thing, is that I want a sportscar, or really; a rally car. But nobody makes anything that is livable anymore (WRX comes with 18's and rubber band tires). And I need a truck for towing. The ZR2 is the closest thing to a rally car you can get these days. WAY more fun to drive than any full-size could dream to be. The DSSV shocks are magic. And it can tow my trailers and racecar just fine.

And yes, will be using it for dirt roads and logging roads.

Yep different stokes for different strokes. A rally car would be awesome.

I used to be an advocate for the midsize truck...I just don't see the point of them any more...cost as much as a fullsize, mileage isn't any better, might be a little worse. Sure there is the size thing...but really... that matters for what(?) a fraction of a percent over the course of its' ownership. I can put an 1/2-1 Ton everywhere I put my Tacoma. Like most things in life what was once a great thing has become ruined by the mass majority.

Yes, it is relative. Ever driven a Rover or a mid-size pickup with good shocks off-road? In that 2500 HD we almost had a really horrible crash trying to move quickly down a dirt road when axle skate set in. Never would have happened in my Rover or Nissan. ZR2 will glide over the same thing like a magic carpet.

I have, used to live in AZ a lot of my friends down there race Baja...so I have been in Buggies, Class 7-8 Trucks, and a Trophy Truck. Once you have been in one of those, everything else pales in comparison. You can build something better and cheaper than what the manufactures offer off the showroom floor....so that is why I don't see the point of the ZR2, Raptor, TRD Pro etc...

I am big into dirt bikes...nothing really can touch it off-road where you can take it.

 

[Dalko43]

Yes, they are not as small as an original minitruck, but they're still far easier to deal with around town. And they can actually fit in Jeep trails. Nobody off-roads full-size around here, because they simply do not fit. Period. (10 years of this, I've never, ever seen a full-size on a trail, not one).

Yes, the mid-sized trucks are inherently better suited for the tight, technical jeep trails. But, I don't think most people buying Tacoma's and Colorado's are intending to use them on such trails. People either buy a Jeep or build up some old 4x4 (toyota, jeep, gm) that they don't mind scratching and denting.

For the majority of trails and roads I've seen in the northeast, if a jeep can get through it, so too can a full-size, with perhaps a little more pin-striping. Mid-sized trucks I think are relevant less so because of what they can do on the trail, and more so because they're easier to live with day-to-day for people want a daily driver and a weekend warrior vehicle.

And I'd never buy a 3/4 ton regardless of price. I simply don't like driving a vehicle that makes me feel like a bobblehead due to the stiff suspension. Was forced to take a long highway ride, and then logging roads in a GM 2500 for work a few months ago. Awful, awful experience.

Yeah, no kidding the ride was "awful." That GM 2500 is rated for a high much payload than most 1/2 tons and all mid-sized trucks. If you want a better ride, you need to put in an aftermarket suspension, that's a given for just about any work-oriented 4x4 or pickup.

And I also don't think the Ranger Raptor will ever come to the US either. Ford doesn't have plans for that. From what I'm hearing, it's dark days coming for Ford as their new CEO is likely to slash ALL special vehicle engineering.

A) I can't see Ford not bringing the Ranger Raptor North America. It would be a marketing disaster if they didn't. They're just keeping their lips sealed on it to build up the consumer's anticipation.

B) "Dark days" and "slashing" of all special vehicle engineering? Why? And according to whom? Their F-150's, Raptors and other performance vehicles (Mustang GT350's) are selling like hot-cakes. I never understand these conspiracy theory predictions on the internet:

Supposedly Ram has been looking to break off its relationship with Cummins for 5-6 years; hasn't happened yet but people keep talking about as if it will.
Ford won't bring the Ranger Raptor to North America, even though the F-150 Raptor was a huge success.

I just don't know where this "gouge" comes from.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Yes, the mid-sized trucks are inherently better suited for the tight, technical jeep trails. But, I don't think most people buying Tacoma's and Colorado's are intending to use them on such trails. People either buy a Jeep or build up some old 4x4 (toyota, jeep, gm) that they don't mind scratching and denting.

People here definitely run their Tacomas hard. Maybe not a high number of 3rd gens yet but plenty of 2nd gens get flogged here. I expect with time they'll start showing up.

There's a couple of guys in the club that have 3rd gens and they're using them on some fairly gnarly stuff. Same with GX and 4Runners, not just old junk out there except on the true hard core trails where buggies make more sense. It's usually a mix of old and new, even a few 200 series getting out there.

The qualifier of "most" is probably true. Most people also never used their mini trucks originally like we do either, but who really wanted to wreck a brand new truck ever?

 

[Dalko43]

People here definitely run their Tacomas hard. Maybe not a high number of 3rd gens yet but plenty of 2nd gens get flogged here. I expect with time they'll start showing up.

There's a couple of guys in the club that have 3rd gens and they're using them on some fairly gnarly stuff. Same with GX and 4Runners, not just old junk out there except on the true hard core trails where buggies make more sense.

The qualifier of "most" is probably true. Most people also never used their mini trucks originally like we do either, but who really wanted to wreck a brand new truck ever?

Perhaps, but I still stand by my original point. IMO, the true market appeal of a smaller truck, like a Tacoma, is that it is cheaper and more practical for everyday use, and not necessarily that its better at rock-crawling or technical offroading.

 

[Clutch]

Perhaps, but I still stand by my original point. IMO, the true market appeal of a smaller truck, like a Tacoma, is that it is cheaper and more practical for everyday use, and not necessarily that its better at rock-crawling or technical offroading.

People here definitely run their Tacomas hard. Maybe not a high number of 3rd gens yet but plenty of 2nd gens get flogged here. I expect with time they'll start showing up.

There's a couple of guys in the club that have 3rd gens and they're using them on some fairly gnarly stuff. Same with GX and 4Runners, not just old junk out there except on the true hard core trails where buggies make more sense. It's usually a mix of old and new, even a few 200 series getting out there.

The qualifier of "most" is probably true. Most people also never used their mini trucks originally like we do either, but who really wanted to wreck a brand new truck ever?

Have to agree with Dalko...of all the Midsizes sold...how many get run on off-pavement trails?

Hell, most of the members on TW are mall crawlers.

I am in the dirt often....at the very least once a week...and I don't wheel very hard.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I've felt only recently have the TRD Tacoma and 4Runner been pushed hard at that market, which was filled by the FJ Cruiser anyway. It's always seemed like they pushed the Hilux/Truck/Tacoma/4Runner as a lifestyle thing and alternative to the Land Cruiser for mortals and dirtbags. It's what drew me in originally, to get places that my Civic couldn't. It wasn't until I got involved with the Rising Sun and TLCA that I really started 'wheeling just to 'wheel.

If the question is how many 4WD trucks actually get used, you guys know the answer to this is next to zero proportionally. That's been true for decades. How many people never use 4WD and isn't that inconvenience and lack of knowledge why automatic hubs and electronic t-cases came to be? I bet comparatively higher numbers of Toyota 4x4 trucks are used in anger than the market as a whole. But you really have to go looking for dirt roads and especially unmaintained ones to really challenge a truck.

 

[Clutch]

I've felt only recently have the TRD Tacoma and 4Runner been pushed hard at that market, which was filled by the FJ Cruiser anyway. It's always seemed like they pushed the Hilux/Truck/Tacoma/4Runner as a lifestyle thing and alternative to the Land Cruiser for mortals and dirtbags. It's what drew me in originally, to get places that my Civic couldn't. It wasn't until I got involved with the Rising Sun and TLCA that I really started 'wheeling just to 'wheel.

If the question is how many 4WD trucks actually get used, you guys know the answer to this is next to zero proportionally. That's been true for decades. How many people never use 4WD and isn't that inconvenience and lack of knowledge why automatic hubs and electronic t-cases came to be? I bet comparatively higher numbers of Toyota 4x4 trucks are used in anger than the market as a whole. But you really have to go looking for dirt roads and especially unmaintained ones to really challenge a truck.


View attachment 442920 View attachment 442921 View attachment 442922 View attachment 442923 View attachment 442924

We always had 4WD's...it was a necessity of getting up our driveway in the winter and owning a construction business. Starting buying Toyotas since I was tired of feeding the 8 mpg F250.

Yeah...people who own 4WD's and actually use them for what they are made for is next to nil...Even though I don't think I use my truck very much for
what it was intended for...still use more than most.

Very lucky where we live and work...if I get a long lunch...I go do some "micro-overlanding" ...as I can be on dirt 10 minutes from work.

This was from a couple weeks ago...went out for 2 hours...and back before the next client with 15 minutes to spare!

Week or so ago was out scouting for new camping spots. We live 20 minutes from the beginning of this area. So I am in the back country often.

Lots and lots of little spur roads that I saw and need to head back out and explore....probably do that on the bike since it is faster and cover
much more ground quicker...and I hell of lot more fun too.

 

[Dalko43]

I've felt only recently have the TRD Tacoma and 4Runner been pushed hard at that market, which was filled by the FJ Cruiser anyway. It's always seemed like they pushed the Hilux/Truck/Tacoma/4Runner as a lifestyle thing and alternative to the Land Cruiser for mortals and dirtbags. It's what drew me in originally, to get places that my Civic couldn't. It wasn't until I got involved with the Rising Sun and TLCA that I really started 'wheeling just to 'wheel.

Not to sound like a broken record, because I've said what I'm about to say before: Toyota's do get pushed hard and heavily used in the 4x4 community, but Toyota North America, as a company, has been very slow to appreciate and market itself to that community.

The 4runner/FJ, Tacoma and LC are all great offroad, do-anything vehicles. But look at what Toyota offers for those and compare that to its overseas offerings or domestic competitors:

1. The 'TRD' lineup is basically the same vehicle but with a slight lift and some badging. By comparison: the Raptor is a totally re-worked F-150; the ZR2 a totally re-worked Colorado; the Power Wagon and Jeep Rubicon get significant offroad upgrades from the factory floor. You can't even get the Tundra with a rear-locker. I think all of the domestic 1/2 ton's come with at least an optional limited-slip, if not a full on locker. They also don't even put a rear-locker in their pinnacle 4x4: the LC 200.
2. Overseas, Toyota will actually offer substantial offroad components (snorkel, bull bar's, lockers, ect.) off the dealership floor. Yes, Toyota North America is starting to come around and orient itself to the overland/offroad crowd with snorkels for its Tacoma's and 4runners....but it certainly took them a while to get to that point.
3. And I won't even go into the lack engine options, or changes, that seems inherent to Toyota's North America's strategy, all while the domestic companies are pressing full speed ahead with diesel and turbo gasoline options.

Toyota's do get used hard by the offroad crowd. But the company itself has been very slow to adapt its offerings to that community. Which is frustrating, because overall they still make great vehicles...I'd just like to see a little bit more refinement and diversity in what they offer.

 

[AlexCold]

Everything is expensive now. I do wish there was a true return of small basic 4x4s but unfortunately we're a small minority, infinitesimally small. That's why we keep the old toyotas, nissans, s10s, rangers going. But the fact that OEMs are making Raptors, Power Wagons, and ZR2s whether used to the fullest ability or not means they do care about providing the off-road enthusiast with an off-road option from the factory.

As for me, it's why I'm buying a ZR2 (bought just waiting of delivery) simply because I don't need to work on it. It will go 99% of the places I want to go and do so comfortably with my family. I'm sure I'll add 33s eventually and other doodads, but the base vehicle is so good that I don't need to. I have a CJ5 and an EB for "hardcore" stuff.

As for OEMs not bring certain international option to the US, could be that it's simply not worth the cost of certifying those options to US regulations. Especially when their current offerings are selling fine.

 

[vintageracer]

Look at ALL the folks who buy a $4K+ mid 1990's to early 2000's 4x4 vehicle (Pick your make/model) to "Build" their vision of the perfect "Off-Road" 4WD vehicle. Then look at all the modifications they "Have to Make" to that old/cheap 4WD fit their "Vision" of the perfect 4WD. Now consider the amount of MONEY out of their pocket they have now spent to make that old 4WD vehicle capable of being their "vision" of their perfect 4WD off-road vehicle. Pretty amazing to "ME" how many people are willing to spend $10K+ on building a new to them $4K POS vehicle that's worth $6K if they are fortunate when they decide to sell. I guess you could also spend absurd amounts of money on that old outdated POS vehicle you currently own to change that into a capable vehicle that meets your "Vision"!

New vehicles today are far more capable in ALL aspects of street driving, off-roading, cruising, and personal comfort than any old vehicle from the past. A little thing called "Technology" has driven all manufacturer's to up their game. Some more than others. Depreciation? Old vehicles pick your make/model depreciate at the about the same percentage over time as a new one. Yes the hit is a larger dollar number on a new vehicle in the beginning however percentages are still about the same for like make/model older vehicle until they reach that scrap price or reach that they are always worth that price no matter how bad a condition. The only difference is the current market value of the old vehicle which which is less than the new vehicle however the depreciation percentage is rarely much different than that of a new vehicle over time.

Look at the MOST MODIFIED VEHICLE EVER PRODUCED in the world which is a JEEP. Over 50% of the buyer's of new Jeeps are now women. Why? Could it be modern design, comfort, capability, blow your skirt up KOOL? You decide!

When was the last time you actually saw a stock Jeep TJ, KJ, BJ, BS, CJ or whatever initials they have? You have to look long and hard to find a STOCK Jeep running down the road or the trail. I thought a Jeep is "supposed" to be very capable 4WD off-road vehicle STOCK so why is the Jeep still the most modified vehicle ever produced? Are they that BAD stock? This sounds like a great plan. Let's go buy a new Jeep at $40K+ and then go throw another $10K+ at it to make capable of your "vision" of what a Jeep should have been in the first place! That makes No CENT'S! (Pun Intended)

Is that $10K+ you are spending on that new Jeep in upgrades any different than that $10K+ you just spent upgrading that $4K OLD POS vehicle you just bought or already own. Probably not! However that New Jeep is a hell of a lot Kooler, Neater and More Expensive than that old $4K POS vehicle. The real question is this:

Will they both drive the same down the street or trail in the same comfort, economy, capability and speed?

Probably Not!

It's a good bet that the new/modern vehicle will do most all of it BETTER!

So when it comes time for you to buy your next new/used vehicle ask yourself this question:

How Much Is better comfort, better economy, better capability, faster speed and better anything else you can think of Worth To You???

Be honest to yourself with your answer to that question and may have just found you next vehicle!

 

[Dalko43]

As for OEMs not bring certain international option to the US, could be that it's simply not worth the cost of certifying those options to US regulations. Especially when their current offerings are selling fine.

I'd say Toyota's North American offerings are selling okay. Toyota certainly has a firm grasp on the mid-sized 4x4 and pickup market (Tacoma, 4runner), but they're no longer the only game in town. Their Tundra sales are inferior to domestic sales. And honestly, if they continue to rely on dated powertrains and transmissions, they're going to risk their niche place in the market.

As for the cost of certification: I call BS on that. They could have certified their diesel engines for US-compliance prior to 2007, and they still can certify their current diesels for modern emissions-standards. Other companies have done the same, and the payoff is evidently there as they continue to make diesel options and introduce new ones. Toyota also could use a diesel option from a reputable 3rd party (Cummins) the same way Ram and Nissan do.

Also, I think the aftermarket modifications offered and warrantied by Toyota North America pales in comparison to what is offered overseas.

 

[AlexCold]

I would say that Toyota NA is doing fine, they sold more than 500 million vehicles last year than GM did and made nearly $6 billion more too.

And of course they could do any of those things but why? I'm assuming their break point to offer those options would have to be fairly low for them to consider it, and honestly I don't see Tacoma/4Runner sales dropping severely anytime soon.

As for factory modifications being warrantied? Why would they do that when they know the customer is going to go do it themselves anyways?

Again I don't disagree that it would be great if they did offer it but to me it doesn't make any business sense to do it.