Classic jeep resto: CJ5 or flat fender?

[Martinjmpr]

Because apparently I haven't suffered enough in life, I'm contemplating a motorized vehicle project. As long as I can remember I've always loved the look of the classic Jeep.

I never owned one because I always needed a more "practical" vehicle like a pickup or an SUV for a DD but there's something very attractive about the Jeep that I am still contemplating.

Anyway, after seeing the old military vehicles in Skagway and hearing the wife (more than once) say she likes old jeeps and trucks, I've been thinking about starting a jeep project. My ultimate goal would be to rebuild/restore a jeep to decent running condition. Probably not a full-on frame-up restoration, but more of a "functional restoration" (i.e. I wouldn't be shy about substituting, for example, electric windshield wipers for the less efficient but period-correct vacuum wipers, etc.)

One nice thing about CO is that there are lots of old jeeps around here.

Anyway, my specific question was: Which is easier to find parts and accessories for, an older CJ-5 or an older flat-fender? I've looked around on a few web sites and at least one of them had a guy restoring an old CJ5 who said that it would have been easier to do his project on a flat fender as there is more aftermarket for it.

The only one that I am definitely not interested in is a CJ3B. Sorry, I just can't get over that fugly high hood. My first preference would be a CJ3A, second would be a CJ2A. And as much as I like the M38 as a military vehicle, I don't think I'd want to try to do a resto on an oddball vehicle like that with its 24v electrical system.

CJ5s are, in my observation, a bit more common on Craigslist, but also more likely to have been "hot rodded" or otherwise messed with. I am fully aware that I would most likely be buying someone else's failed project but I'm prepared for that, I think (yeah, I know, "famous last words", right? )

Reasons I don't want a CJ5: There are a brazillian of them around, and also I really prefer the smaller "footprint" of the flat-fender jeeps. They are smaller, shorter, lighter, lower to the ground and seem more "accessible" than CJ5 and subsequent jeeps.

Anyway, for those that know the "classic Jeep" world I'd appreciate any guidance of flat fender jeeps vs. CJ5s. Also would appreciate any advice as far as books/videos/online resources and/or suppliers in Colorado.

 

[Hill Bill E.]

Having done a CJ7 frome the 'frame up', and now going into building a CJ2A, I would say go with the CJ2A.

The 3A is to rare, whereas the 2A has a lot of support for parts. Both big names (like Walcks: http://www.walcks4wd.com/index.aspx) and guys who can't find what they need, or don't like the quality of what they can find, and build thier own. These guys figure it out, and then build for other enthusiasts.

My advice, either way you go, is to get a fairly complete rig, in decent shape.

We bought 2 CJ2A's, to make one. Arrghh! It'll happen, but I wish I had waited, and found a better candidate.

You will find some old 2A's that have been 'Hot-Rodded', stay away from them.

Good Luck!!

 

[gpwpat]

if you like the military, go for a WWII jeep. if you are looking at keeping it 100% stock that is. they hold their value, fairly well. There are lots of resources for parts.

I do have to say the m-38 is a really nice jeep. may be alittle odd ball. but you can source parts for them just fine.

check out http://www.g503.com It is a site devoted to WWII military jeeps primarily. but is broken down to subcateagories for every kind of flatfender, and military vehicle known. from trailers to jerry cans.

 

[JKDetonator]

I've built 3 CJ5's and love them. Modern enough for all of the niceties, but still old enough for the classic look. All of the sheet metal is still available and the engine bay is big enough for whatever you have in mind. The last one sold to an Orthinologist in Vermont for $15,000. So they weren't Junkers! Hardtops can still be found with Internet access. Good luck on your decision! It's an addiction that's hard to break. Currently eyeing a 1969 jeep commando, it will make a great rig for Sunday afternoon drives, convertible, continental kit, mustang clip, power disc brakes, 5.0L....see I'm doing it again!:coffeedrink:

 

[jeepdreamer]

May as well face it I'm addicted to...Jeeps!

My first thought is what are your intentions towards this jeep? Not in the fatherly "you want to take my daughter out WHERE young man?" kind of intentions...
What do you want to do with it? How often do you think it will be driven? Are you mostly concerned for the asthetic jeep "look"...that iconic, world recognozable face of beauty?
Being that you are in Colorado (Lucky SOB...haha) You have a slight advantage. Colorado is, IMHO, the Mecca of Jeepdom. Lots of places to take em and lots of parts can be found only a craigslist away...
I would like to offer a couple of morsels for thought about building an old jeep.
There are a few vital systems that you will...WILL want to upgrade if you plan on driving this much on the street...or even up the pass to get to some trails.
Brakes! All the early models have a braking system that ranges from ho-hum on a stock jeep maxing at 50mph to downright life changing experience offering scary. Tiny little drums at all corners and no power assist. They are easy to rebuild but you'll never be happy (or feel safe) with them..
Steering. The early models use a Ross steering design. Imagine a half retarded goat with an erector set trying to design a steering system with his eyes closed and half schnockered...thats the Ross set up. Ok...maybe not schnockered...it works, a little. But honestly, its a turd and can (should) be swapped out for a saginaw (even a power unit) system. Less "joints" in the system, less points of wear, less play, parts available almost anywhere.
With those two things out of the way I would toss a coin as to aftermarket "support" for either option. MBs and M38s are in there own realm as they usually fall towards the "collector" (posh) and are more $$ and "collectable"...whatever. The good news is that almost all the support and aftermarket parts available to the military jeeps can/does carry over to the civilian versions. Most body parts, almost all mechanical...very similar. Now ask an H3 owner if he can use H1 parts!!!:Wow1::wings:
The last item I will hit on is "performance"...If you want simple and reliable, all the early ones are pretty equal. But...don't expect to flog that 4 cyl and keep up with even granny in the slow lane. The F engine only puts out a few more ponies than a good riding lawnmower. But properly tuned and driven responsably it could knock down 45-50mpg! Take THAT Prius!
The "bigger" CJs have way more engine options and can be found with some decent choices for compramise. The Buick Dauntless 225 V6 is a good little factory motor. Decent power, runs great, easy to work on. I believe (could be wrong,sorry can't remember) that the inline 6 didn't come along until '74? maybe 70? But 74 is a change-over year so it may be too "new" for what your after...?
I gotta do some work...will try and add mor later. PM me for a specific question...

 

[Root Moose]

I haven't pursued a flattie or CJ5. I've thought long and hard about them in the past - one versus the other. I ended up with a YJ but...

It sounds like you are more in a "restomod" frame of mind versus a restoration. For a Jeep that is going to be used this is a good mind set IMO. Regardless of which Jeep you choose it is prudent to modernize the brakes and steering as stated above.

At the time I kept coming back to a CJ5 for one of the most silly reasons you can imagine: you can buy a BesTop soft top that uses a belt rail instead of snaps or belt loops or whatever to attach to the tub.

The other nice thing about a CJ5 is that you can pretty much make any drivetrain you want fit. A 4L60 is a tight fit with a DJ grille but it can be made to fit (IIRC).

I really like the sound of the Go-Devil engine in a flattie. If I had a flattie I'd keep that engine and drivetrain. Maybe I'd upgrade the axles to modern stuff (Dana 30 / Dana 44 ). I'd try to adapt a GM TBI fuel injection from an old Cavalier or something.

I've often thought that a Jeep TJ 4 cylinder would be a good fit for a CJ5. I doubt it would fit in an earlier CJ. Well, maybe it would fit in a 'B.

I'd think about doing some suspension modifications for ride quality too. Maybe YJ leaves all around or convert the front to coils.

As for which of the early CJs... I like the M38. It's got the strong frame and such. All the ones in our local club dumped the original 24V electrics and engines/drivetrains eons ago so I wouldn't let that hold you back. Second choice would be a CJ3A for the "modern" windscreen. That said, the CJ2A screen looks pretty cool too.

Consider a CJ6 or M170?

 

[Root Moose]

Some books worth perusing:

Jeep CJ Rebuilder's Manual:1946 to 1971

Jeep CJ Rebuilder's Manual:1972 to 1986

Jeep CJ-5 & CJ-7:4x4 Performance Portfolio 1987-1999

Jeep CJ-5 Limited Edition 1960-1975

Off-Road Jeeps:Civilian & Military 1944-1971

The last three in particular could be useful to help decide which year of Jeep you want.

 

[Desert Dan]

I love the older Willys Jeeps too.

Ask yourself these questions:
Are you a good mechanic and fabricator?
What is your budget?
How much time do you want to invest in the project?
Do you want to work on it or drive it?

No hard feelings Jeep folks.
I get sentimental every day but if you really want to use it I would say get a TJ or JK.

 

[Root Moose]

I get sentimental every day but if you really want to use it I would say get a TJ or JK.

Quoted for truth.

To restomod an old Jeep to the same level of competence as a TJ takes a lot of time and money. You can sometimes play time off of money and vice versa but it will bring you to a different end point than you want some times.

 

[Hill Bill E.]

No hard feelings Jeep folks.
I get sentimental every day but if you really want to use it I would say get a TJ or JK.

Well put! My '80 CJ7 is my summer DD, and not a week goes by that I'm not checking something, replacing something, or tightening something.

I dumped over $10G into it over the last 12 years, and the drivetrain has less than 12K miles on it, but it's not like my '99XJ or '02 F150, where I can jump in, fire them up, and go.

Older rigs take a lot of TLC. Which I don't mind. Most folks who do the build themselves don't mind doing it, and know thier rig very intimately, so the quirks of an older Jeep are easily checked.

Now, I not only DD my 30 year old relic, I wheel it pretty hard also, to include dragging my M416 w/RTT 3000K miles round trip to Moab, and hitting the trails for 10 days while there:victory:

If I was just cruising to the DQ on Sunday afternoon, the daily maintenence would be less:coffeedrink:

No matter what your plans are with the Jeep, it is, in my opinion, a very therapuetic operation bringing one back to life.

Since you have a DD/getaway rig already, I see no problem in resto-modding an old Jeep.

If it was to be your primary overlanding rig, then I would agree with Desert Dan.