Clear something up for me...

[4x4junkie]

The big problem with CB in my experience is that most folks have never tuned the antenna or even know if they have one suitable for the ground plane of their mounting position, they just install whatever someone sold them and go on their merry way. With installations like that and hilly terrain (Moab area for example), I've been in many trail groups where people in the middle could not communicate with the front or the rear.

That's why it's generally a good idea to try to educate others about the installation and maintenance of their radio gear and it's antenna. I've always kept an SWR meter in my truck that covers CB and VHF just because it always seems like someone in the group comes down with a radio issue at some point (yes one fellow on his 2M too). It's made a huge difference on more than one occasion when a newcomer joins our group.

I don't have a CB and the only reason I would put one in is if I could have some reasonable assurance of the hilarity and ridiculousness of CB radio talk like some of the trucker videos I've seen on Youtube. ROFL at the chaos. The power mics with over modulation and echo reverb are especially hilarious.

Lol, you must be talking about the "skip-shooters". Those guys do make quite the racket down on the lower channels when the band is open during daylight hours. They can be interesting to listen to, no doubt... though we usually keep to the higher channels (>30) when such conditions prevail as they're much quieter.
We've actually had contacts come in on these channels not only from our own country, but from places like Sydney and Auckland as well, which I don't think would be possible on the lower channels without a big (illegal) power amp. We always talk like normal humans though, none of that "10-code" BS (I think the use of "Q-codes" on voice is also just as ridiculous).

 

[Crom]

Hilly terrain is the big problem here with CB range. Sorry to say but at least around here you won't hear much hilarity on the CB. No ones using it anymore. Still truckers, loggers etc, but the annoying people have moved on to something else to annoy people. Ranting on the boards?

Not sure, but I suspect some of them got their tech ticket and moved to 2M. You heard of the 435 animal house repeater? The link describes it well.

That's why it's generally a good idea to try to educate others about the installation and maintenance of their radio gear and it's antenna. I've always kept an SWR meter in my truck that covers CB and VHF just because it always seems like someone in the group comes down with a radio issue at some point (yes one fellow on his 2M too). It's made a huge difference on more than one occasion when a newcomer joins our group.

Which SWR meter do you have and do you like it?

I've been endlessly searching for an affordable quality SWR meter that worked on VHF and UHF... I tried an MFJ one which was okay on VHF but only measured half the power on UHF. Very disappointing. I did like the cross needle design though. Quality and affordable seems to be the problem. I may have to give up on the dual band meter all together... Dunno.

Lol, you must be talking about the "skip-shooters". Those guys do make quite the racket down on the lower channels when the band is open during daylight hours. They can be interesting to listen to, no doubt... though we usually keep to the higher channels (>30) when such conditions prevail as they're much quieter.
We've actually had contacts come in on these channels not only from our own country, but from places like Sydney and Auckland as well, which I don't think would be possible on the lower channels without a big (illegal) power amp. We always talk like normal humans though, none of that "10-code" BS (I think the use of "Q-codes" on voice is also just as ridiculous).

QSL -- :elkgrin:ROFL!!! I'm the same way.

Thanks for the notes on the propagation that's good to know. Yes it was the low channels and daytime I heard funny things. For a while I had my hands on a Uniden 996T digital trunk tracker scanner. I loved that radio and used it every day but it was on loan and eventually I had to return it. It was so capable and worked well for monitoring and it even worked on 11 meters.

I thought about it and I'm going to save up for their newest flagship scanner, the Bearcat BCD536HP which will be released in January. There is a nice youtube video out that explains the new features and what not. One of it's new novel feautres is WIFI is built in and you can use an android device as a remote head to control and stream audio to remote locations, even across the Internet.

 

[4x4junkie]

Which SWR meter do you have and do you like it?

I've been endlessly searching for an affordable quality SWR meter that worked on VHF and UHF... I tried an MFJ one which was okay on VHF but only measured half the power on UHF. Very disappointing. I did like the cross needle design though. Quality and affordable seems to be the problem. I may have to give up on the dual band meter all together... Dunno.

I never could get accustomed to cross-needle meters... I guess it's being able to set the needle all the way over to the right and then flipping the switch and looking at a direct reading of the SWR (you don't have to "set" a cross-needle meter, however reading SWR is harder if you can't select a range for the power level you're using that puts the 'forward' needle in the upper half of the scale).

The meter I keep in the truck is a Diamond SX-200. Surprised to see it priced about the same as it was 20 years ago :Wow1: hopefully it's still the same meter... It's survived being dropped, jammed up behind the seat, left out in the rain once or twice, bathed in trail dust, being accidentally pegged with 600W going through it... Yet by some miracle it keeps working and has stayed pretty accurate.

I also have a SX-1000 which it too has served nearly as well, though this one usually stays at home (looks like it's replaced by a SX-1100, not sure the difference).
They have a quality feel when you use the controls on them, not the stiff switches on some meters that go "thunk" where you have to hold the meter down from moving when you switch it.


I've got the BCD996T myself. Unfortunately I was a bit let down by the frontend on it (I was expecting better intermod rejection from a non-handheld unit that pushes past the upper $500s at some retailers). Fortunately it allows setting of the built-in attenuator on a per-channel basis. I guess it doesn't help that I'm also in a pretty dense population area... :snorkel:

 

[1911]

That's why it's generally a good idea to try to educate others about the installation and maintenance of their radio gear and it's antenna. I've always kept an SWR meter in my truck that covers CB and VHF just because it always seems like someone in the group comes down with a radio issue at some point (yes one fellow on his 2M too). It's made a huge difference on more than one occasion when a newcomer joins our group.

Yeah, I do the same thing; I always bring my MFJ-259B antenna analyzer with me on any kind of group run or event. If I had a dollar for every antenna I've tuned for free, I could buy a decent radio.

 

[craig333]

Thankfully I haven't run into anything like the 435 up here. Now being a glutton for punishment I'll have to check it out on echolink

 

[waterboy222]

Lots of great information in this thread, thanks to everyone that replied. It looks like a CB is my best choice for the money and possibly a set of FRS for spotting. Most of the trail rides I do, the vehicles are more than a few yards apart.

 

[craig333]

I'm glad you mentioned spotting. Those little frs units are great for situations like that. Keeps you from annoying the people on cb or ham with the mundane chatter. I keep a couple on hand for just such stuff. They're cheap and reliable.

 

[DaveInDenver]

FRS radios are handy for spotting, but if you're a ham these new Yaesu FT-252 & FT-257 radios are cool. They go for about $100 most of the time, so much more than FRS. But they are 5W and built well. OTOH a $40 Baofeng or Wouxun works, too. Although IMHO they are not quite as nice. But for bang-around radios they are plenty sufficient.

I wouldn't worry about annoying other ham users and if 2m is busy there is almost always UHF simplex channels open. That is a perfect reason to have a dual band handheld, too!

 

[Crom]

I'm glad you mentioned spotting. Those little frs units are great for situations like that. Keeps you from annoying the people on cb or ham with the mundane chatter. I keep a couple on hand for just such stuff. They're cheap and reliable.

Not sure about Nor Cal's 2M band plan but in So. Cal there are 16 dedicated simplex frequencies, plus two slices of unchannelized bandwidth reserved for simplex. If you take the unchannelized bandwidth and divide it by the 15 kHz spacing it yields another 10 possible channels. With 26 possible channels there should be plenty of room for a free frequency. In my mobile radio I have all the simplex freq programmed in and I have channelized the other parts as well. It works great for me, in an instant I can switch over and usually find a free freq. IMO it seems like an underutilized asset.

So what's Nor Cal's 2M band plan look like?

FRS radios are handy for spotting, but if you're a ham these new Yaesu FT-252 & FT-257 radios are cool. They go for about $100 most of the time, so much more than FRS. But they are 5W and built well. OTOH a $40 Baofeng or Wouxun works, too. Although IMHO they are not quite as nice. But for bang-around radios they are plenty sufficient.

I wouldn't worry about annoying other ham users and if 2m is busy there is almost always UHF simplex channels open.

Those Yaesu's look good.

Our So. Cal band plan for 70cm only has 5 simplex channels, two of which have some restrictions on them. They are usually never busy. Almost the whole spectrum is repeater pairs or remote base, long haul link, etc.

 

[craig333]

One thing, I can hand an FRS radio to anyone. If I want to be legal with a ham radio the other person also has to be licensed, not to mention ease of use for the untrained.

 

[Crom]

Yup. Excellent point there. FRS sure is handy for that.

 

[DaveInDenver]

No argument, FRS has a definite place in the grand scheme. It's handy that most all 440MHz ham radios can monitor FRS.

Crom, I sometimes forget that our band plans vary so much. Here in Colorado we have 18 regular FM simplex UHF and another 18 mixed mode (voice and data) FM if necessary.

 

[Martinjmpr]

That's why it's generally a good idea to try to educate others about the installation and maintenance of their radio gear and it's antenna. I've always kept an SWR meter in my truck that covers CB and VHF just because it always seems like someone in the group comes down with a radio issue at some point (yes one fellow on his 2M too). It's made a huge difference on more than one occasion when a newcomer joins our group.

I think this is an excellent point and worth repeating (see what I did there? )

Most of the problems with using CB on the trail are related to poorly installed radios or antennas.

Suggesting that someone move from CB to HAM to improve trail communication IMO is missing the point, because if the person cannot properly install and operate a CB, what makes you think they will be able to properly install and/or operate a 2m? I don't know about the Boafeng units but both my dual band HT (a Yaesu) and my single band (2m) Kenwood are not the easiest or most intuitive radios to operate. So if the problem is that the person is unfamiliar with the best way to use and install a 2 way radio (regardless of the band) then that's what you need to work on.

Suggesting that such a person move from CB to HAM is like finding someone who can't get their car out of first gear so instead of teaching them how to shift, you just recommend a faster car.

We always talk like normal humans though, none of that "10-code" BS (I think the use of "Q-codes" on voice is also just as ridiculous).

I couldn't agree more.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Nothing wrong with Q-codes on phone if it's the best way to communicate the information clearly and concisely. You wouldn't necessarily do so conversationally with good signal strength on FM but at the edge of readability, even on FM or through a repeater, it's a lot easier to comprehend a station using them over a dozen broken non-standard words. "Did he say he is or isn't reading me?" So it's good to know of them and at least the most used ones.

 

[Crom]

Suggesting that such a person move from CB to HAM is like finding someone who can't get their car out of first gear so instead of teaching them how to shift, you just recommend a faster car.

Interesting topic. No doubt radios with VFO can be intimidating for the non-technical crowd. I have observed a trend happening in So.Cal. where CB's are becoming unpopular and in their place they're using VHF radios (modified ham) on illegal VHF itinerant frequencies. Worst part is I've informed some of them and they seem to not care. Here is an example. Personally I think they are playing with fire. They'll post a future meet of where they will be, when they will be there, and the illegal frequency they'll be using, all in a public forum.

Nothing wrong with Q-codes on phone if it's the best way to communicate the information clearly and concisely. You wouldn't necessarily do so conversationally with good signal strength on FM but at the edge of readability, even on FM or through a repeater, it's a lot easier to comprehend a station using them over a dozen broken non-standard words. "Did he say he is or isn't reading me?" So it's good to know of them and at least the most used ones.

I'm a little jealous of the CO 70cm band plan. I think the point is that for most hams who are not Off-road, back country enthusiasts, they use Q-codes on FM repeaters in daily rag chews. It's just part of the ham culture as far as I can tell. It's not a bad thing. I find it amusing. And if I don't know the meaning I go look it up so I am constantly learning new things.