Coke Ovens: Request from the land owner

[Scott Brady]

I received an email from the land owner of the Coke Ovens property. She is asking that the OHV community not trespass on their land, which includes the ovens and the home (what is left of it). They are having horrible vandalism issues, which is destroying that entire area.

I know that no one on this forum (and most in the area clubs) would vandalise that site, but lets respect the owners wishes and not drive in to the ovens if it is posted "no trespassing" or not (the signs are getting stolen or shot up).

UPDATE: Added Email Dialog from Family. Contact information removed.

From: KARA TRAUT
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:47 PM
To: @expeditionswest.com
Subject: Coke Ovens trip

I have seen in your pictures that you have been right up to the coke ovens. I have read that they are on private land. Do you get permission from the owner to be there?

----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Brady
To: 'KARA TRAUT'
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 9:33 PM
Subject: RE: Coke Ovens trip

Hi Kara,

The Coke Ovens are on private land. There are just other ways to access the area and view the Ovens from a distance, without trespassing (if there is a trespassing issue at this time).

The southern route crosses the Gila near the old Cochran town site and the other parallels the Gila on the north side for several miles and then turns north at Walnut Canyon.

As far as the boundaries to the private land, I have not looked at a plat. I do know the actual ovens are on private land (or at least were), as many years ago one was modified for use as a unique motel.

Hope this help

What is your interest in the Ovens? Maybe I can help point you in the right direction for more information.

Scott Brady
Expeditions West
www.expeditionswest.com

My interest in the ovens is that my family owns them and I am sick about people thinking that they can go onto private land without permission. I am more sick that people think they have to vandalize. I realize that you are not one of those people. They are a historical site and soon they won't be there anymore. I wanted to know if anyone actually knows that they are privately owned and that they are trespassing when visiting there. Sorry that I singled you out, but you were the only one that was readily accessible. I just wish there was something I could do to keep the riff raff out, but our hands are tied. The law is on everyone else's side, not the landowners. We put signs up and have fenced it, but it doesn't matter.

Kara

----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Brady
To: 'KARA TRAUT'
Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 10:07 PM
Subject: RE: Coke Ovens trip

Kara,

I will update my website to reflect your wishes of no trespassing. I can also post the „no trespassing‰ request on the discussion forums that service Arizona OHV clubs. The effect it will have is minimal, as clubs rarely, if ever have vandalism problems. I even know of a few clubs that have done clean-up runs to the area of your property to fix some of the mess. The problem is the small groups of ATV and OHV users that are drinking and accessing the area. Nothing is sacred in their mind.

Historical sites throughout the area have been vandalized and destroyed. It is so heartbreaking that I do not go back to the Florence Junction area anymore. Martinez Canyon was closed for nearly a year due to vandalism.

5 million people are within a few hours of your property now∑an unsustainable situation.

Scott Brady
Expeditions West
www.expeditionswest.com

Scott, I appreciate that. But, like you say, it won't do any good anyway. We have put 'No Trespassing' signs right on the property and it hasn't helped. So the OHV clubs are jeeps and such that go? I saw one site that had 4-wheelers and dirt bikes pictures. I can imagine those are the people tearing up the roads as well.

I also appreciate that you appreciate the land. As I said before, I know you aren't one that is vandalizing.

Again, I apologize for singling you out. I was upset last night after seeing so many sites with pictures. But it is something that we have to live with because it will never be stopped. Pretty soon there won't be anything left to go see anyway.

Thanks for hanging in there with me!!

Kara

I forgot to mention:

I had no idea that people have gone out to pick up the place. That is a very nice gesture and I will be sure and tell my father that is being done. That does show that there are good people left. Thank you.

Kara

From: William Lorenz -
To:
Subject: Coke Oven Info

Scott -

We understand that you have been in contact with Kara Traut, daughter of Donn Lorenz, the Coke Oven property owner. She mentioned that you may want more information on this property.

Attached find photos of the Coke Oven property, circa 1992, in the original condition. Also note photo of fence repair across the trail.

See following email with property boundaries.

Sincerely,
William Lorenz
Son of Donn, owner

Bill,

Thank you so much for the email and follow-up. I apologize for the delayed reply, as I have been on an expedition to the Arctic: http://www.expeditionswest.com/arctic_ocean/index.htm

The images you share are heartbreaking. When I first started traveling to the ovens, your father still lived on the property. It was always a pleasure to visit.

Now, most of the area has been ransacked by our growing population of wildcat OHV’ers, principally ATV and dirt bike riders. I am sorry that your family must see the degradation of your fathers land and property at the hands of selfless individuals.

With your permission, I will post some of the images you sent to show the destruction of the property and how it looked in the past.

Is there any way the OHV community can support your family? I will relay your wishes to the community. Can we do a clean-up, post signs, help with maintenance, etc.? If your wish is that we simply “keep out”, then we will gladly respect that as well.

All the best Sir.

Regards,

Scott Brady
Expeditions West, LLC
www.expeditionswest.com

 

[jeffryscott]

That is such a shame, the Ovens are super cool and a neat piece of history. Why, oh why do people feel the need to go back into remote areas in 4x4s or quads or motorcycles and trash stuff ... :ar15:

 

[goodtimes]

Scott (or anyone else who knows), specifically, what is the area in question? Is the entire area surrounding the Ovens affected by this request, or just the ovens/structures themselves? Is the trail itself part of this? If so, at what point do we cross from BLM to private land? If I were to head back there right now, barring any signs, I would not know what is BLM and what is private, so I wouldn't know what area to stay out of....

 

[flyingwil]

Scott (or anyone else who knows), specifically, what is the area in question? Is the entire area surrounding the Ovens affected by this request, or just the ovens/structures themselves? Is the trail itself part of this? If so, at what point do we cross from BLM to private land? If I were to head back there right now, barring any signs, I would not know what is BLM and what is private, so I wouldn't know what area to stay out of....

I do not think I have ever seen any such signs out on the trails there. It is a shame as it is such a cool piece of history to come across.

I agree with Brian... at what point are we no longer on BLM land and on private land?

 

[Scott Brady]

without looking at a plat, I don't know. I do know that the trail that comes down the hill and besides the ovens and house is on their property. Basically, we should not drive within a few hundred yards of the home or ovens until we have more details on the property lines.

I am so sick about all the damage in that area that I have little desire to go to FJ at all.

 

[flyingwil]

I am so sick about all the damage in that area that I have little desire to go to FJ at all.

I have to agree, each time I go there I leave with a full bed of trash! With the mining at Hackberry, and the vandalism at the cabins, and now the coke ovens.... I think they need to enforce the permits. I bet that 90% of the people out there do not have valid ASLD permits. Come to think of it every vehicle I see out there never is displaying their permit nor have I ever seen anyone enforcing them along Cottonwood Canyon road.

The stolen Mitz Lancer is still in along Cottonwood Canyon road, I have called and reported it about 5 times since I first spotted it. Sure enough it is still there, just more bullet holes in it now.

To make things worse, we ran up 4 Peaks Rd to go camping, and every site for about the first hour on the road off the bee line was covered in trash or used "targets". That is the next bad place. Basically anything with an hours drive of Phoenix is becoming trashed by uneducated people. I would bet they are all on the list to be closed.

 

[Scenic WonderRunner]

OK!

.............JUST GREAT!

I always wanted to go there.

Now what?


:26_16_2:



.

 

[Rockcrawler]

That's too bad... I guess I'm just glad that I was able to enjoy them and the Cabins in Martinez Canyon before the idiots took over and trashed everything. As with anything else, it only takes a few "bad apples" to ruin things for the rest of us.

 

[Scott Brady]

That's too bad... I guess I'm just glad that I was able to enjoy them and the Cabins in Martinez Canyon before the idiots took over and trashed everything. As with anything else, it only takes a few "bad apples" to ruin things for the rest of us.

:iagree:

I remember when there were still overhead belts at the rock crusher and an old guy lived at the Coke Ovens in the house...

 

[Wanderlusty]

Maybe this could be seen as a chance to win some good will. Perhaps someone here could contact the owners and offer to come out and help clean up/repair some of the damage. It may do nothing as far as gaining access again, but it would be a nice thing to do.

Sometimes when I read this, I wish I lived closer so I could help out on more cleanups and such.

Sometimes when I read this, it makes me sad that it seems improper trail usage has reached levels enough to make someone who loves that area say they "have little desire to go there at all" and that is just sad it has gotten that bad.

Around here, litter is a problem. Vandalism to a lesser extent. Illegal dumping in some areas is bad enough that it would take a large dump truck (or two) to haul out all the trash. Heck, there is a lot not far from my house that currently has no less than 3 mattresses, and several other pieces of junk.

I just don't get it. I totally don't understand the mentality of the person who pushes a washing machine off the back of their truck onto someone elses, or even public property, and doesn't feel bad about it.

Sometimes it just makes me wanna :ar15: !

 

[Scott Brady]

We are seeing the affects of the "ME" generation now. 90% had no parenting and they are running wild and think nothing of leaving garbage around. My dad showed me by example to leave things better than I found it.

I just did a clean-up in the Four Peaks area on a small, side trail (we are using it for a Jeep launch). We hauled out 40 bags of garbage and a burned out Dodge Ram.

I did mention to the owner that the Copper State Cruisers did a clean-up. They expressed their appreciation.

If someone is willing to coordinate the run, I will be happy to contact the owner and get permission for a clean-up and legal access to the Ovens.

 

[seth_js]

I bet that 90% of the people out there do not have valid BLM permits.

I wasn't aware of any BLM permits for FJ. State land, yeah.

 

[DaktariEd]

We are seeing the affects of the "ME" generation now. 90% had no parenting and they are running wild and think nothing of leaving garbage around. My dad showed me by example to leave things better than I found it.

I just did a clean-up in the Four Peaks area on a small, side trail (we are using it for a Jeep launch). We hauled out 40 bags of garbage and a burned out Dodge Ram.

I did mention to the owner that the Copper State Cruisers did a clean-up. They expressed their appreciation.

If someone is willing to coordinate the run, I will be happy to contact the owner and get permission for a clean-up and legal access to the Ovens.

That might be a good opportunity for ExPo goodwill and to assist the property owner. Could even help them post signs (though no doubt short-lived) in appropriate areas.

 

[jeffryscott]

a clean-up would be a good idea, I don't know the area well (been there just once) so don't feel too comfortable organizing anything, but am willing to help.

Let's pick a date as a starting point (Saturday's would be best for me as I work Sunday afternoon) and when a date is chosen (if the land owner wants this) then I'll contact my friends at the Land Rover group (AZLRO) and I'm sure we could get help from the Copper State Cruisers (John Shotts? Mad Baggins?) and we could pick areas: Expo, AZLRO, CSC to concentrate our efforts.

One thing I've seen on C-Gap is a welded sign ... maybe a few signs made of heavy metal would last a few shotgun blasts longer than wood or plastic ...

Let's get this going ...:archaeolo

(I'd take my 4-year-old too ... start teaching her some of this stuff. Everytime we go out and pick stuff up, she says we should organize a cleanup. Here's her chance ... cool.)

 

[BajaTaco]

Just thinking out loud here...

I think a clean-up is a great gesture, and I bet there are a ton of community oriented 4wd people already thinking the same thing. If the word was spread around to the various AZ clubs and such, I bet the number of volunteers would be staggering since it is such a popular destination. HOWEVER, a clean up is a short-lived thing. Perhaps too little too late. I bet if the various phoenix area clubs could organize their efforts, a plan could be proposed to set up a training day for volunteers. The participants would volunteer two weekend days per year (doesn't have to be two consecutive days) to camp out or day-trip at the ovens and act as a guide for visitors. All visitors would be required to have the guide take them through the property. It would take 52 people to do it, but I bet the positions could be filled quite quickly. If I lived in the area, I certainly wouldn't mind doing that. It would also be a fun way to meet people and see a lot of cool vehicles. My guess is that after the clean up has taken place, and if the property has a baby sitter on the weekends, the amount of vandalism/irresponsible acts would go way, way down.