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[Buckstopper]

Buckstopper was being a drama queen - here is the actual law that was not only proposed but was also passed:

Lawmakers Approve New Diesel Truck Regulations For Portland

Amid a flurry of last-minute votes on Sunday, Oregon lawmakers passed a bill regulating diesel trucks in the Portland metro area.

www.opb.org

There will always be losers with rules like this, but if it's for the better good....so be it, a handful of enthusiasts like @Buckstopper getting caught up in this isn't a reason to bail on it. Like what @85_Ranger4x4 suggested, the older trucks are just continually recycled and nobody was jumping to new ones....the air isn't getting any cleaner, gotta do something.

Nick - I don't think I am being a drama queen here. I was referring to HB 2020 which didn't pass. It would have effectively banned my 2005 (pre 2010) medium duty (between 14000 and 26000 Lb GVW) truck in the year 2025. Frankly HB 2007 that did pass may do that as well. It got passed while I was in Alaska this summer and I didn't read the whole thing until now. Part of the rational for getting this passed was that California and Washington already have similar laws and Oregon doesn't want their old trucks and construction equipment. - I can't confirm that and haven't tried but its clear that diesel, or at least "old" diesel is in the crosshairs.

If this new law does what I think it does, I've got 5 years to figure out what to do. I don't really want to sell it and a retrofit of a DEF system to this truck isn't likely...Mitsubishi has bailed on diesel and is only selling gas trucks now. Perhaps convert it to an EV and skip fossil fuel altogether.

The private people that want to drive a 20+ year old truck are generally not the same people that want a new truck so you really are not saving anything that way either. It isn't like they are not selling new trucks... like hand over fist because everybody still has to have the latest and greatest. The private citizen that drives old iron either does it because they can't afford any better or because they are an enthusiast.

The problem is that the laws are not making exception for "the private people that want to drive a 20+ year old truck" even though we are really not adding much pollution in the big scheme of things especially compared to the impact of scraping a perfectly good truck and building a new one.

This has gone pretty far off the original topic but it ties back. The OP is considering what to get that would be a 500,000 mile truck for him. Part of that decision is diesel or gas. Driving 500,000 miles would take me probably 30 years or so and they will likely take my keys away long before then but its a long time for a truck. A lot can and will happen in 30 years. The Fuso will be 20 years old with way less than 500k on it when it will be taken off the road by the powers that be. My comment in my original post still stands - I'm not sure I want to risk getting burned again and buy a diesel truck even though it would be my preference. No drama, just the reality of politics and the world we live in now.

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ps - Nick you can be the first to contribute to my gofundme to replace the Fuso. No drama here

 

[blubullett]

I am not saying people shouldn't do it if they want but with the discussion about longevity (and I would assume people want maintainability) and then squeezing a but load of power, esp with after market parts, out of a engine just don't seem to go hand in hand.

My post was in response to a person who was wondering about factory boost levels and if it is too high and would have an affect on reliability. I was giving an example that if the boost level was too high for reliability there wouldn't be enough headroom to pump the motor up that much more and still run on pump gas. That means there is NO worry at stock boost levels if there is that much headroom left in the motor. It was not an endorsement of pushing your motor to the edge then driving miles and miles from help.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

The problem is that the laws are not making exception for "the private people that want to drive a 20+ year old truck" even though we are really not adding much pollution in the big scheme of things especially compared to the impact of scraping a perfectly good truck and building a new one.

This has gone pretty far off the original topic but it ties back. The OP is considering what to get that would be a 500,000 mile truck for him. Part of that decision is diesel or gas. Driving 500,000 miles would take me probably 30 years or so and they will likely take my keys away long before then but its a long time for a truck. A lot can and will happen in 30 years. The Fuso will be 20 years old with way less than 500k on it when it will be taken off the road by the powers that be. My comment in my original post still stands - I'm not sure I want to risk getting burned again and buy a diesel truck even though it would be my preference. No drama, just the reality of politics and the world we live in now.

********

It could just as easily happen to gas too.

If it effected my vehicle I would move.

 

[T-Willy]

Nick - I don't think I am being a drama queen here. I was referring to HB 2020 which didn't pass. It would have effectively banned my 2005 (pre 2010) medium duty (between 14000 and 26000 Lb GVW) truck in the year 2025. Frankly HB 2007 that did pass may do that as well. It got passed while I was in Alaska this summer and I didn't read the whole thing until now. Part of the rational for getting this passed was that California and Washington already have similar laws and Oregon doesn't want their old trucks and construction equipment. - I can't confirm that and haven't tried but its clear that diesel, or at least "old" diesel is in the crosshairs.

The problem is that the laws are not making exception for "the private people that want to drive a 20+ year old truck" even though we are really not adding much pollution in the big scheme of things especially compared to the impact of scraping a perfectly good truck and building a new one.

Did you actually read HB 2007? It provides a really long list of exceptions for "private people that want to drive a 20+ year old truck."

It's limited to all of three counties, exempts everything under 14K GVW, provides a long list of exemptions over 14K GVW (campers, motor homes, recreational vehicles, antique vehicles, and on and on), and, atop all of that, provides a blanket exemption for emissions retrofits and repowers.

It pretty narrowly targets big, old, commercial diesels--which as you acknowledge is the pollution problem.

 

[NevadaLover]

Actually our air is dramatically better in the major metro areas than they were in the 60’s-80’s. Late 80’s -90’s yr after yr improvement along with our coastal water quality. It wasn’t till just the past 10-12 yrs we have started too see increases again in pollution types linked to transportation again. Today its just sheer numbers of vehicles many of which are idling in traffic longer.

No one is getting rich from emissions standards thats for sure. Ford and a few other companies Signed onto to CA mileage and emissions goals recently because Ford has the technology and vehicles in the pipeline that meet these new standards already. And people do buy them.

My wife’s current car is a Large Ford Sedan that averages 72mpg all yr long. First Ford Ive had since 1995. I’m also close to buying a new Expedition mainly because nothing else comes close to its 8passenger ability and technology. The few friends with them get constantly better mileage than my Sequoia making it pretty much a gas pig given its power and size.

I love diesels my first car was a diesel. My boat is a diesel. I’d love to have a modern diesel except my typical use around town short trips would destroy the particulate system less than a yr likely. So I go gasser for now.

First off, yes the air quality is better, BUT... the air quality of the 60's-80's was far superior to the air quality of the 20's-50's,

Second, there are many fools getting rich from "emissions standards".... such as the corporations who design the DPF to the corporations who pushed the use of DEF, which by the way is more toxic than MTBE was before it was outlawed AFTER California realized it was killing the environment!!

And 3rd... 72 MPG from a "large ford sedan"??..
Maybe a little review before post is in order...
You either misplaced a period or you failed basic math!

You can love California if you want but those of us who see the REAL world don't fall for the rainbow and unicorn garbage of a republic with an app to avoid human waste on the streets!

 

[calicamper]

I get your anger lots of people share the same beliefs. I get it. Oh plugging my wifes car in gotta run. Yeah it gets 72mpg average has for the last 66,000 miles. The part that sucks the trunk is full of battery.

 

[scott7022]

. At some point it will rust, be wrecked, or you'll just grow tired of it. I feel similarly toward tattoos.

I genuinely enjoyed each one for what it was, and made it out without any BMW/Jeep/or Chevy/VW/Mazda/Dodge/AM General/Toyota/etc. hats or keychains or anything of the

Been reading this thread with interest. Great discussions and insights. I am in the same boat as the OP. Perhaps different design goals but...I like the thoughts. I haven't had anything to say to date, so just reading. I agree with you about tattoos if you put them on your skin. One should only tattoo the soul, the physical representation is what the world sees and is free to interpret. But it is what it means to you and you only. Not a fashion statement. Same could be said for the search...

 

[spectre6000]

Bummer. I was expecting to be pulling the trigger this coming week, but it's looking like I need to wait at least until the middle of the month at the earliest. Death in the family, and a financial puzzle piece has been pushed back two weeks. The funeral is supposed to be in 2-3 weeks (seems like a long time, but that's what I was just told), and that'll be some significant travel time. It may be a good opportunity for fly and buy, but I'm not sure I'll have that sort of time with everything going on... Gotta have everything nailed down and truck in hand before the baby gets here, so that's making things really tight given my strong desire to special order...

Re: diesel laws. Compared to many countries, the US is very generous about grandfathering cars. Some European markets (Italy comes to mind) used to require older cars to be retrofitted with updated lighting and such. Some Asian countries (Japan comes to mind) all but outlaws older cars overall. In the US, you can still legally register and drive a 100 year old car if you want. What's more, once a car is of a certain age, the rules all but fall off entirely. I've owned a few cars that left the factory without seatbelts, and could have absolutely legally driven them that way if I wanted (I did not, and installed seatbelts because I'm not an idiot). My military truck doesn't even require plates. Some people in that scene carry copies of the relevant statutes in their glovebox for "educating" the police when they inevitably get pulled over (I didn't do that either, because I'm not looking for a fight, aka, still not an idiot). Longevity really just comes down to parts availability, especially with a diesel. With a gasser, you could conceivably retrofit to run neat ethanol if gas were suddenly no longer available. It'd be expensive as all get out, and likely pretty inconvenient to boot, but you could do it. Diesels are easier. Home brew biodiesel isn't all that hard, you don't have to change anything to run it, and the retrofitting is limited to heaters to prevent gelling in cold weather (easy tech). This is prepper level stuff though, and really not worth entertaining. I live in Colorado. I'm in an emissions county, but only just (and could easily buy some small property elsewhere and reregister if I wanted/needed to). Emissions testing for diesels here, IIRC (it's been a while since I had a diesel tested) is opacity and visual verification of OE emissions components. Easy cheese. It's a consideration, but not a big enough concern to give me pause.

 

[NevadaLover]

I get your anger lots of people share the same beliefs. I get it. Oh plugging my wifes car in gotta run. Yeah it gets 72mpg average has for the last 66,000 miles. The part that sucks the trunk is full of battery.

So, you said "large ford sedan" and I pictured a crown vic not an electric car, next time you need to put the e on the back of MPG, as in MPGe since it's a plug in!

 

[AbleGuy]

I agree with you about tattoos if you put them on your skin. One should only tattoo the soul, the physical representation is what the world sees and is free to interpret. But it is what it means to you and you only. Not a fashion statement. Same could be said for the search...

?? Reading these forum threads is kinda like pawing through the wet, gravelly dirt at Arkansas Crater of Diamonds State Park...if you’re persistent enough, once in a while you might luckily stumble upon a real gem, like this great philosophical musing.

 

[spectre6000]

Doubling back to that diamond...

Part of what gives an individual truck character is modifications. What sort of modifications most directly bestow character... I don't guess it must be the sort of character we would necessarily aim for, but just binary, true/false character... VW New Beetle eyelashes for instance. Definitely not something any of us would do, but hard to argue it doesn't personify a car that's already known for having a "face". There's an otherwise nondescript, middle aged middle eastern or hispanic lady that works in the same building as my doctor. She drives a late model Camaro with a very bold airbrushed "She Hulk" theme. Hard to argue that car doesn't have character.

More along the lines of our particular favored flavor, does a lift grant character? Tires? A topper? Is it really just any deviation from stock? What grants the most character? Something paint related probably... Seems like it needs to be something non-factory barring something extremely unpopular or ultra-limited... Or am I chasing something that isn't here?

 

[phsycle]

In my view. Stories predicate character. I’m sure the lady has an interesting story behind the She Hulk. A dent could be “character.”

But this is getting too psych hibbity-jibbity for me. Let’s remind ourselves its a truck forum.

 

[calicamper]

So, you said "large ford sedan" and I pictured a crown vic not an electric car, next time you the e on the back of MPG, as in MPGe since it's a plug in!

When your Fusion is wider and longer than most cars today its large

 

[jadmt]

When your Fusion is wider and longer than most cars today its large

I don't consider a Fusion large, but my daughters probably would, one drives a civic and the other a crv

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I don't consider a Fusion large, but my daughters probably would, one drives a civic and the other a crv

I don't either. About the smallest on average around me. The little bitty golf cart type cars are not very common in my area. Focus/Fusion/Taurus and their competition are the big hitters.