Confirm my ‘basic’ understanding of single-dual batt set up comparison

wADVr

Adventurer
I apologize and willing to take my beatings in advance.. but been reading many topics on dual batteries and many others looking for the same info I am trying to confirm but I am trying to get my basic understanding confirmed before diving into the details of proper charging systems...

Background info:
I now have a battery tray that will fit either 2 group 34(stock JK battery), 2 group 24s(same LxW dimensions as the 34 just 1 inch taller) or a single group 31. I currently have a single DieHard AGM group 34 though discontinued at this point. I am trying to keep this simple so I am starting with the amp hour capacities and making sure I have that theory correct. My ’idea’ at this point is to set up a separate accessory circuit that would have a voltage sensing switch to cut off at 12.0-12.1 volts which seems to be right at the 50% safe discharge level so the accessories would not run the battery down past that safe level. My idea was to use this switch and separate circuit for either a single or dual battery set up but am unclear on possible damage at this level when trying to start the vehicle to recharge the battery(in the single battery set up). Dual battery set up would be isolated as normally done so the starter battery is unaffected and always charged and ready to start the vehicle. Or is it ok(not a bad idea) to pull down both batteries to 50%(12volts) with expectation of them both starting the vehicle?
Other acknowledged pending info is my alternators charge voltage and amp capacity. I will be running an alternator designed for a 2010 Grand Cherokee and a ECU programmed to run a 2015 Ram 5.7 Hemi all in a 2009 JKU so some unknowns at this point until I get the project completed which I believe is needed to determine the next level of this project. Not to mention I am not sure if the ECU or the TIPM regulates the voltage, nor do I recall my previous charge voltage in the all stock ‘09 JKU.

can someone please confirm my basic math below that essentially is comparing a single Group 31 to dual Group 24 and 34s. single battery acting as starter and house/accessory battery and the dual setup as isolating the house/accessory battery or as an option both combined for comparison and seeking advise on that method as well.

Group 31 100aH rating which should only be used to 50% so 50aH capacity.

Group 34 55aH rating which same as above results in 27.5aH capacity Or both batteries being 55aH.

Group 24 75aH rating which again same method leaves 37.5aH capacity Or both batteries being 75aH.


thanks in advance for any info or confirmation, I am really trying to keep this simple and would really like the single group 31 to work as I have laid out above to keep it simple but the knowledge in this forum is MUCH greater than mine!
 

DiploStrat

Expedition Leader
Three documents which may help:

-- Watts Up
-- Charging Up
-- Doubling Up


Basically, calculate your load, figure out how to charge it, and, finally, figure out how to combine a dedicated starter battery (typically high cranking power) with a deep cycle batter (low crank, high longevity).

A low voltage cut out seems like a good idea, but often doesn't work in practice as many larger loads will cause massive, temporary voltage drops. You may find it extremely annoying, but beyond that, you don't want to depend on a cutout; size your system to your load and required autonomy. This will probably require more battery than you can fit under the hood of a Jeep.

Good luck!
 

Martinjmpr

Wiffleball Batter
IMO the biggest advantage of the dual battery is the peace of mind that comes from knowing you'll never be without the ability to start the vehicle, assuming you run your accessories off the "house" battery and not the starter battery.

However, with small, portable "jump packs" becoming more and more common and prices coming down, this may be less of a concern.

You also have to think about not only how far can you draw a battery down, but how quickly can you charge it back up. The dual battery system shines here because it typically charges from your alternator, which can put out 100+ Amps. Compare this to the 10A you can draw from a typical 12v "power socket" or the ~ 8A you can (theoretically) draw from a 100W solar panel.
 

wADVr

Adventurer
thank you. Good point on the voltage cut off. Makes a lot of sense now that you say it.
also interesting point on the recovery time. Less aH used less time to recover. Both ideas will primarily use the alternator for recovery. I am not seeing solar as a cost effective solution for me at this point largely due to my longest annual trip (without driving to recharge) is in November which is typically terrible weather, I have a Honda 3k generator for this trip however..
 

john61ct

Adventurer
Any and all charge sources should be used for House.

Bigger rigs could find it better to put the (upgraded) alt output directly on House

And only divert a tiny fraction of its current back to Starter, e.g. using Echo-Charge.

And indeed a dedicated Starter can even be dispensed with so long as you are sure about the alternatives' reliability and redundancy.
 

dreadlocks

Well-known member
Dual Battery setups can provide an advantage over a singular battery setup when it comes to winching, as loads go up the usable stored power goes down with lead chemistry, a dual battery setup splits this heavy load in half reducing wear/heat on the bank and increases winching capacity.
 

john61ct

Adventurer
For heavy winching duty, the alt should really be carrying most of the load, battery just acting as a buffer smoothing out the transfer.
 

wADVr

Adventurer
Thanks for the reply’s and now a question since it’s brought up. What is the comparison between winching with a single 100ah battery(group31) and say two 55ah(group34s) the 10ah difference of the 2 34s or is there another factor here? Yes winching is done typically with the engine running unless upside down(been there done that) and I do play nice typically not performing extended pulls without letting the battery/alternator catch up but sometimes it is what it is.
 

dreadlocks

Well-known member
engine running does help, but it dont take much winch to overload most OEM alternators at idle.. especially as the winches heat up with extended use..
 

wADVr

Adventurer
straight down the Rabbit hole I go...

great, so, the CCA of a battery needs to be higher than the max amp draw of the winch, correct? I assume so as the cranking amps indicate the battery can provide enough current to operate. My example is a 775cca battery running a winch capable of 452 amps at full load, no load is a much nicer 42 amps. Although I assume the larger the gap the less opportunity for resistance to start taking over, could one also assume the the higher the CCA rating the less resistance within the battery? Now to translate that into time or duration is where the aH rating comes into play. This example at full load remembering my 55aH battery and 100% efficiency( not taking into account resistance heat or physical) I should have 3.6 minutes of run time correct or did I go down the wrong tunnel? And again using the 50% discharge rule.

increasing the available aH rating to 100 or even 150 increases the available run time to 6.6 minutes and 10 minutes respectively. Real world will be less but the higher cranking amps would indicate less resistance or loss in that time.

again I am trying to get this all straight so if I am wrong please correct!
 
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dreadlocks

Well-known member
the problem is you have 55AH @ a 20h discharge rate, not a 5min rate.. thats much less: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peukert's_law

Peukerts.jpg

The Yellow line is most FLA batteries, so on this 120Ah battery has less than half that capacity at 50A, half that again and you got 25AH to work with on a 50A load.. AGM is the pink line and you can see why AGM is good for winching.

This is where multiple batteries really help in high load situations, each time you reduce the amp load on each battery the further to the left you can work up that curve..
 
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Photobug

Well-known member
Can a dual battery setup be set to use the starter battery up to a point then cut out? I would like to add a system that allows me to use the starter batteries potential but only cut off when it gets to say 12.2 volts.

Does such a system exist?
 

dreadlocks

Well-known member
yeah not really, in that case you make both big batteries a house bank and toss in a little deka AGM racing/cycle/mower battery for starting.
 

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