Cool Jeeps You Can't Have - Mahindra of India

[AmericaOverland]

The only catch with these FC vehicles and buses is that if they are tagged yellow for commercial, there's no re-registering them as private vehicles. This is an amazing source of information. I'm going to Nepāl today, and I'll be back next week to wrap up my driving license and pick out a vehicle. I've got to get on the road. I haven't driven in over 4.5 years.

 

[jscherb]

The only catch with these FC vehicles and buses is that if they are tagged yellow for commercial, there's no re-registering them as private vehicles. This is an amazing source of information. I'm going to Nepāl today, and I'll be back next week to wrap up my driving license and pick out a vehicle. I've got to get on the road. I haven't driven in over 4.5 years.

Registering an India FC in the US should be fairly straightforward in the U.S. if the FC in question is 25 years old or more. According to the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration:

A motor vehicle that is at least 25 years old can be lawfully imported into the U.S. without regard to whether it complies with all applicable FMVSS.

More detail in the regs: https://www.nhtsa.gov/importing-vehicle/importation-and-certification-faqs

Registration would be a state-by-state matter, but I don't believe an Indian commercial status would affect state registration but before importing any vehicle from India, one should check the FMVSS regs and the particular state's registration rules.


If you're planning to live up to the Overland part of your name, how about a Savari? Here's a nice used one for only 5 lakh: https://www.gaadibazaar.in/buy-used-mahindra-savari-di-2wd-car-for-sale-in-1667450379310-1 . Unfortunately this one isn't 4wd but used Savaris aren't too hard to find so you should be able to locate a 4wd example.

The extra space in a Savari would make for a great platform to outfit for overlanding.

 

[jscherb]

Today's lesson, students, is Indian English .

Mostly English in India is very understandable to Americans (once you decipher the accent, which may differ depending on which of to 20+ major Indian languages the speaker calls his native language), but there are some words that may Americans may not be used to. Various car parts are referred to either with the American word (trunk) or the English word (boot), both versions are in common use. Bonnet (for hood) is spelled incorrectly below, but you get the idea in these photos taken from an Indian used car web site:

Here are some words you'll often hear in India that you won't be used to in the U.S.

Prepone. Opposite of postpone. Used mostly in business, means to reschedule a meeting earlier.

Cum. No, it's not a slang/vulgar term like it usually is in the U.S. Here, it means "in conjunction with" or "in combination with". For example, this "Spare Wheel Storage Bag Cum Backpack": https://armoro.com/collections/mahindra-thar-accessories/products/spare-wheel-storage-bag-bagpack

Erstwhile. Rarely used in the U.S., it's very commonly used in India. It's another way to say "former". As in "Donald Trump, the erstwhile president of the U.S."

Stepney. As in this product: https://automods.in/product/jerry-can-stepney-wheel-mount-bracket-for-new-mahindra-thar-2020/, "Jerry Can Stepney Wheel Mount Bracket for New Mahindra Thar 2020":

I hadn't heard this one until recently. It's originally a brand name from England - early in the days of the automobile in England, cars didn't come with spare tyres, so a company named Stepney came out with an aftermarket spare tyre. The name stuck for a while in England and spare tyres became known as "Stepneys". Over time the term fell out of favor in England, but it stuck in India and spare tyres here are still called Stepneys. I talked to OO about this term - they're considering marketing their products here in India and recently I did a series of spare tire storage designs I called SOS = Storage On the Spare." They said that if they market the products here they would still use the SOS abbreviation but it would mean "Storage on the Stepney" for the Indian market, although spare wheel or spare tyre is also common here.

Storage on the Stepney on my JKU:

Class dismissed.

 

[AmericaOverland]

Registering an India FC in the US should be fairly straightforward in the U.S. if the FC in question is 25 years old or more.

If you're planning to live up to the Overland part of your name, how about a Savari? Here's a nice used one for only 5 lakh: https://www.gaadibazaar.in/buy-used-mahindra-savari-di-2wd-car-for-sale-in-1667450379310-1 .

The catch is, where would I get parts for this vehicle or any Indian vehicle not sold in foreign markets? AND what about the cost of living in America? I'd have to live out of a vehicle, be one of the half-homeless population that is growing over there. I'm staying right here for as long as I can. I just started to put together a "plan-B" in the event immigration laws change and I have to go back to America. I'm making sure that I have the money to jump into a truck and a suitable RV and hit the ground running, with various free overnight stay options like national forests, BLM, Harvest Hosts, etc. There's no going back to cities anymore, with outrageous rents and jobs that pay minimum wage. I'm 57 and profoundly deaf. Job prospects are very dim, indeed.

If I were you, if you can retire and have a pension of some sort, GET OUT! There is NO REASON to live in America and pay American prices when you could move here and save a lot of money. There are thriving 4X4 and Overland groups to join here. Myself, I have the money RIGHT NOW to buy 4-5 vehicles just because I can (which I won't do, of course), an impossibility in America. Here, I can take one vehicle and do what I want to it that I can't afford to do over there.

 

[AmericaOverland]

If you're planning to live up to the Overland part of your name, how about a Savari?

I forgot one thing. I had thought that if I was going to publish further trips on my American Overland web site with Indian trips, I would change the image for the name America Overland. Imagine a red "X" spray-painted over America, maybe stylized with a "cracking font," and underneath "America," and have some shiny, new style for the name "India" placed there. The spray-paint style would reflect the civilizational reality that exists there now, like a person can only afford spray paint, not a pint or quart of paint, a decent paint brush, and a ruler or stick to stir the paint. There is also the element of moving quickly to avoid arrest for defacing property.

However, it feels like the constant photo-taking and writing stories in the evening before the freshness of the memories fade takes away from the living of the experience. It becomes like a job, with the flow of the experience interrupted.

 

[Paddler Ed]

Cum. No, it's not a slang/vulgar term like it usually is in the U.S. Here, it means "in conjunction with" or "in combination with". For example, this "Spare Wheel Storage Bag Cum Backpack"

Interestingly it's still used in the same context in British English in a semi-formal manner. In English it's used to describe that something can be one thing but also used as a another, normally with only a small change.

 

[jscherb]

I'm back in New Delhi now and we just picked up the rental Thar. For now I'll just share the windshield easter egg with you, much more to come.

 

[jscherb]

I've had the Thar all day and haven't had any time to take photos of it yet because soon after I picked it up I drove it over to the Overland Outfitters factory and I spent most of the day there trying the OO products in it. But I did receive the Mahindra official window screens today. They came in a nice pouch with a zipper closure:

There's a wire inside around the perimeter which has magnets attached to it at intervals, and the magnets grip the door frame.

Magnets can't grip the bottom because like the Wrangler there's a plastic door panel there, so Mahindra provides a stick-on slotted piece of plastic. In this next photo one is in place and the one for the other side is sitting apart on the door for illustration purposes.

I was planning to bring these home with me to serve as a model for doing something similar for the Wrangler, but the rigid wire frame is larger than the largest luggage I have so I'm not sure what I'll do about that.

About my day at the OO factory, 9 products worked as-is and another 7 only needed very minor tweaks to fit properly in the Thar. I took photos of everything I tried and as soon as I get a few minutes to go through the photos I'll post some.

 

[jscherb]

Some Thar photos I took while testing the fit of various OO products.

The soon to be released in the U.S. Storage on the Spare System (maybe should be called Storage on the Stepney if they sell it in India?). It's a modular system and most of the components can be installed separately; in these photos most of the system is installed:

Their seat-back storage options fit the Thar nicely. Left to right, Messenger Bag, Cool Bag (and insulated cooler) and a simpler cargo bag.

BTW the bags above also fit nicely on the back of the rear seat; the Thar has removable headrests so the headrest zipper strip for the seat-back products worked just fine.

On the left in the next photos are Grab Bar Pockets; two Roll Bar Bag photos are on the right:

Headrest MOLLE covers and their MOLLE First Aid Bag:

The saddlebag over the inner fender; it's contoured to fit to the curves and slope of the Wrangler inner fender and fits the Thar curves well too. On the right is their leather grab handle.

There are two products that we made patterns for because there's no way the Wrangler products would come even close to fitting. We designed a new Thar tailgate panel (with pockets instead of MOLLE for the Indian market) and a Thar door pocket. The master at the factory will be making prototypes of these new designs and as soon as they're ready (tomorrow or Saturday) we'll do a test installation and some photos. Stay tuned.

And I will do some detail photos of the Thar without any other products in the photos, just didn't have time for that today. I'll take photos today and post them before your morning tomorrow (it 's Friday morning here as I post this, 10pm Thursday in the U.S.)

 

[jscherb]

This is my rental Thar. It's a 2021 model, a diesel, and it's got a few of the higher end options - power windows, power rearview, upgraded wheels and tires. automatic trans (my preference for New Delhi traffic!), A/C. This one has been well used, it's got 111,000 kms on the clock (68,000 miles).

Exterior views.

The tires are 255/65R18's, which works out to about 31".

Factory hartdop it two-piece, but it's apparently not intended for quick removal - there are quite a few bolts and screws holding it in place.

Exterior badging. MHawk badge proclaims it to be a diesel. And in these photos you can see some of the wear & tear from its 110,000 kms.

 

[jscherb]

Inside the front seats are comfortable. The both seats slide forward/back and the passenger seat tilts forward far enough to allow access to the rear seats but the driver seat does not tilt far enough to allow access to the back seat.

The rear split bench seat is also comfortable.

The rear seat is split and folds down. It is bolted to the floor and does not tumble forward. There are multiple threads on Indian forums about modifying the seat to fold and tumble.

OO Saddlebags fit very nicely over the inner fenders.

This Thar came to me equipped with rear sun screens. I believe these are aftermarket. The perimeter is a thin steel rod that snaps into place inside the window frame. Really nice.

When I picked up the Thar there were other screens in the back cargo area for the front windows, they were still in a plastic bag. I took one out and tried it.

It's made the same way as the rear screen and works very well, just snaps into place based on the wire tension.

It tested these by moving the power window up and down and they stayed in place just fine. I'll have to see if a design like this would work in the Wrangler.

 

[jscherb]

The Thar dash is very informative. In this photo it's telling me that the wheels are turned 40 degrees and I should check that before driving out of the parking space.

Not really visible in the photo above are the controls on the steering wheel for cruise control and radio/bluetooth phone integration.

To the right of the column is a switch panel that includes switches to turn traction control off, turn hill descent control on, etc. Reminds me of the controls on my Sahara JKU.

Center stack includes a large display screen, intuitive controls for HVAC and several USB ports and a 12v "cigarette lighter style" power port. 4wd lever is to the left of the auto trans shift lever.

Center console includes storage up front, two cup holders and controls for the power windows.

Passenger side has a sturdy grab bar.

OO Grab Bar Pockets fit perfectly :

Nice dash plate:

And the smallest glove box I've ever seen. Good for gloves I guess . Owners manual doesn't seem to fit so it's in a pocket on the back of the front passenger seat.

Other than this being right hand drive, a Wrangler driver will feel right at home.

 

[jscherb]

Some thoughtful/useful details.

Standard locking fuel filler door.

There are standard Jeep-style latches on the hood, but the hood is secured by an internal hood release which must be pulled before the hood can be opened. It's the little rectangle just below the panel, not the accelerator pedal on the floor .

Usable door pockets instead of the stretch-the-first-time-you-use-them nets on the Wrangler doors.

Sturdy handles above the front doors.

There are also standard handles above the rear seat, these are made from webbing with rubber grips and are very similar to the MOPAR handles. They're not really intended for getting into the back seat because it's a 2-door but they are useful for hanging on over obstacles. I swapped them for the nicer OO leather ones .

Inside release and lock for the tailgate.

That's enough for tonight. Happy to answer any questions about this vehicle or take more photos if there's something you want to see.

 

[AmericaOverland]

Thank you for the review on the Thār and the internal gear. I see that this is a current-gen Thār, which I know I won't get because there's too much electronics for my comfort. I especially don't like the auto transmission in such a vehicle (though I had one) but that is just my preference. Thankfully, a huge number of vehicles in India are still manual transmission. We've found a Mahindrā Bolero that will be undergoing 4X4 conversion with a solid front axle. I'm debating whether to do an LSD conversion inside the stock rear axle (internals will fit without swapping the whole axle). The rear seat behind the front seats (not the corner seats way in the back) will be modded so that I can fold the seats to turn it into a camper inside and yet allow me to be able to quickly remove the camper hardware for trips for my friends. This may not happen for a while, as I need to practice driving in Indian traffic and taking day trips to build my confidence before I dare take my friends, as they live in different parts of my city and I'd have to drive through busy parts to pick them up. It' not so bad if I do it early in the morning. Plus, I prefer to stop at hotels for the night on account of my age. We'll have to see. I set a travel budget for myself, and I have to see how far I can go and how many nights I can stay in hotels.

I told my friend, who is helping me with a permanent residency program for India, that I want to look at this vehicle and want someone to drive me up there. He replied with "Mahindra & Mahindra." (the auto driver's name happens to be Mahindrā, and we know it to mean him) I then quipped with, "Can you ask him if I can get a new Thār from his factory?" It'll be about a month before it's ready to test drive and buy. That's after I have already gotten at least a temporary paper driving permit, if not the actual driving permit card by then. Exciting times. I've been cooped up in partial lockdown for 3 years. I'm looking forward to traveling as much of the country as I safely can (West Bengal, Bihar, and probably Punjab are off limits for me at this time).

 

[jscherb]

Initial driving impressions...

The Thar is a very tight vehicle. While I haven't driven it off-road (yet), I did drive it on some very rough roads and it's very tight, no rattles or any sense of flex. The diesel is very quiet and even up close you might not know it's a diesel. It's also very responsive - acceleration is excellent. Seats are comfortable and driving position is very good. Acceleration in Delhi traffic is plenty to deal with the driving conditions here.

The controls are well organized and other than me regularly activating the wipers when I wanted to do the turn signals (it's RHD and the stalks are on the opposite sides), I felt right at home.

The curb weight of the Thar is 3858 lbs. The weight of a JK 2dr ranges from 3759 (soft top) to 4262 lbs (hardtop plus other options?) so I'll say the JK 2dr outweighs the Thar by about 400 lb. The Thar diesel is rated at 150bhp while the JK v6 gas engine is rated at 268 hp., but in spite of that the Thar feels very peppy. Probably this is due to the standard 4.56 axle ratios of the Thar vs. the 3.07 or 3.55 ratios that come stock in the JK. You would think 4.56 with 31" tires would be the wrong gearing for highway use but with highway speeds in India being a bit lower than in the U.S. it's not an issue.

On the road in India, the Thar is just about perfect. It's solid and deals with rough roads very well and it's got appropriate power and pickup for typical driving conditions here. I'd say they got it right.

A photo from the instrument panel. That translates to 31.5 mpg. So far, all around-town driving. Way more than any of my Jeeps ever could do.

If I were to give up on the U.S. and move to India, a new Thar would definitely be my daily driver, although I might wait until the 5-door Thar comes out, rumored to be next year.