Cost estimate to turn van into camper w/stove, fridge, toilet, shower, lighting, etc?

[84FLH]

Hello everyone;

Occasional visitor here. After a year of looking for a 4wd camper van within my budget I'm wondering if it's better to just build my own. I know the DIY route often costs more than a ready made package. But sometimes to get what you want you have to DIY.

Apart from the cost of a 4wd van, I'm trying to get an idea of the costs (high side to low side) to install these items (including associated subsystems, e.g. pump for sink and shower; containers for black and grey water; electrical outlets and wiring; etc) in a van.

Toilet
Shower
2 or 3 burner stove
Oven
Good 3 way fridge
Microwave
Sound proofing
Insulation
Electrical outlets (how many do I need?)
Generator and associated wiring
House batteries and associated wiring
Battery display

I'm considering a combination tour the country trip and a permanent relocation out west someplace. Where I'd end up (if this becomes a reality) I don't know yet. In the relocation scenario I'd be living in the van in the state/town of my choice while looking for work. The van would need certain minimum things for living. My list tried to include the minimum I think I'd need.

I may tow a small trailer also. I know little about trailers except I'm dangerous to be near if I'm backing one up. The trailer would hold things like tools, extra gear, extra clothes, books, and a few things I'd need once I got into a rent or bought a place to live; for example my cast iron cookwear.

I do the usual internet searches for a good 4wd camper van but always seem a day late. I'll keep looking but in the meantime I might as well start figuring out the cost of a DIY camper van.

I'm pretty handy with building, wrenching, moderate vehicle repairs and maintenance, and making good use of space. Machinist by trade also.

I'm overwhelmed reading about major 4wd and lift mods, though. The UJOR site is a wealth of info but at my age (60) I'd rather pay to buy it or have it done than do it myself. Suffice to say I won't be doing any 4wd conversions or installing any lifts. I'd rather buy it already done, pack my junk into it, and take off.

That's about it.

Thanks for reading. Looking forward to the replies.

 

[mike.marcacci]

That's a lot of stuff to fit in a van! (Are you sure you want an oven?) If you're looking to take so much that you're considering a trailer, you might want to start with a bigger rig, perhaps a small RV with everything already built out inside. If you plan to be in places where 4x4 is needed, ujoint has done several really great 4x4 conversions of RVs on Ford chassis.


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[Buddha.]

That's a lot of stuff to fit in a van! (Are you sure you want an oven?) If you're looking to take so much that you're considering a trailer, you might want to start with a bigger rig, perhaps a small RV with everything already built out inside. If you plan to be in places where 4x4 is needed, ujoint has done several really great 4x4 conversions of RVs on Ford chassis.


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X2
There's always cleanish looking rv's on on craisgslist in the sub $5000 range. You get a lot for your money if you look at the 80's early 90's models. I'd buy one myself but don't have room to park it.

 

[84FLH]

That's a lot of stuff to fit in a van! (Are you sure you want an oven?) If you're looking to take so much that you're considering a trailer, you might want to start with a bigger rig, perhaps a small RV with everything already built out inside. If you plan to be in places where 4x4 is needed, ujoint has done several really great 4x4 conversions of RVs on Ford chassis.

I'm a complete noob in the whole camper van/RV world. The 1980s and 1990s factory camper vans I've seen/read about (Falcon, Coachman, etc) have toilet, shower, stove, fridge, coach, cabinets. Not much room left over but I'd only be cooking and lounging on the couch in my down times.

This article about an Astro Tiger XL got me started on the camper van thing. So did a possible cross country tour and relocation idea. This astro was sold by an ExpoPortal member to another ExpoPortal member. The new owner changed it from AWD to 4WD, lifted it, put in some kind of super duper fridge, solar panels, etc. I was blown away by the whole thing. He sold it here for as near I recall around $15,000 or a bit more. The new owner put it on ebay after that. I missed the ebay auction by a few months. It went for over $20,000 there :Wow1:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/38228-Our-quot-new-quot-Tiger?highlight=Our+New+Tiger

Maybe an outdoor shower would be better. But I don't wanna mess with setting it up, taking it down, etc. Just wanna wet, soap, rinse, and go; without having to set up anything.

Being a noob, I need to do more study and ask more questions. This is my first go at the questions.

 

[broncobowsher]

Budget can be anywhere you want it. Buy a cheap camper or motorhome and take all the parts out is one of the cheapest ways to get the parts.
OR buy everything new and top of the line and spend more then buying a new motorhome from a dealer.
And so many of the variables depends on what you want? Don't ask us how many outlets you need, ask yourself. Then ask us how to put that many into your ride.

 

[Bbasso]

I've built mine, with nearly every item you listed plus more.
My approximate cost with the van is less than $13k. But no 4x4 (yet). With great tires, LSD, clearance and some decent skills behind the wheel I've yet to get stuck... snow, ice, beach, and mud.


Figure out how much you want to spend then triple that. Sounds nuts but close to reality.

After looking over what you want, that list is basically what RVs get. Sure it crosses over to vanping but there are some different equipment available and better suited for the smaller space. SKIP the generator, solar is the diggity!

Have you ever stealth camped before? Lower public profile is paramount. Even my POS is starting to attract attention. Good and bad, people give the thumbs up but want to get closer and talk, then there is the LEO who will also take a peek.
An RV is just an RV... to most people and gets over looked unless it's got bling. Lol

Find a person who is willing to show their van off and get some very basic ideas because after your first trip you WILL find something to nit pick about and change it.

my $.02 ...

 

[tgreening]

Besides tripling the cost like Rob said, you can pretty much triple the time it takes as well. Almost nothing ever goes by the numbers in these types of projects, and the older the vehicle the more surprises you're likely to get, which almost always means more time and more money.

What I've found over the years is this. If you want to do something, just do it and forget about the cost. Within reason of course but just do it. If it takes longer because you have to save longer so be it, because in the end you're still getting what you wanted. I don't keep track and never add it all up when I'm done because it the end it makes no difference. It's either worth it to you or it isn't and its value isn't always just the sum total of the parts.

 

[goodwaves]

Check out this guy's build.

Not lux by any means but cost effective and livable.

Just depends on what you are comfortable with how much you wanna spend.

http://www.reef.com/blog/van-life-cyrus-sutton-part-2.html

 

[dar395]

Check out this guy's build.

Not lux by any means but cost effective and livable.

Just depends on what you are comfortable with how much you wanna spend.

http://www.reef.com/blog/van-life-cyrus-sutton-part-2.html

Thanks for the nice link! We're just starting on our new build-out and the score two new add-ons with his bottle holder and bowl idea was great for us!

 

[luthj]

There is a ton of variance in component quality build finish and materials. If you were doing a interior build yourself, the cost would ballpark as follows: To include all the items on your list with all new components materials would be in the 8-15k range. The van would be dependent heavily on options and condition. A little time checking for sale ads will give you an idea. With used components, and deal hunting you could cut the interior components down by 30%. Now comes the labor bit. If you are not doing your own work it can get expensive very quickly. A full custom interior build out can be $15K+ in labor (see sportsmobile pricing).

Based on some of your questions you are a newbie with electrical systems. In a van conversion you should consider ditching the generator and high power usage electrical items. Besides cost and space concerns is saves weight and complexity. This is not a Class C/A RV with all the amenities of home. Learn to live with DC power items as much as possible (DC chargers for phone/laptop for example). AC power should only be used sparingly (if at all) from a battery powered inverter. Spoiling the quiet of the great west with a generator is almost a crime in my book. With a conservative lifestyle, solar and alternator charging, and good design it is possible to live in a van completely of the grid and without a generator. If starting from scratch you need to learn how to set the electrical system up correctly. Otherwise hire professional help.

The kind of build out you describe is basically a full custom RV. Take a look at the conversion forums over at sprinter-source for some examples. This type of build out can have a very steep learning curve and is very time intensive. Quality DIY conversions from scratch are easily measured in 500 hour blocks. This is one of the reasons that people are willing to pay $50k+ for a van conversion from Sportsmobile, Van Specialties, Outside Vans etc.

I second the suggestions that 4x4 is not a necessity for many (especially those on a tight budget). It is great to have if you know how to use it correctly. Otherwise it is much additional expense that can help you get stuck deeper, and father from help. Consider off-road training, a vehicle with good tires and ground clearance first.

Secondly, doing any off or back roads driving with a trailer can be a total pain (BTDT). If you cannot move the trailer by hand you will eventually find yourself stuck and unable to turn around. At 60 you cannot afford an injury off the beaten path. If you are sticking to well maintained or wide roads you will be fine. Dirt roads in major parks and some forest service roads will be this way. If you are doing this, then 4WD is not necessary anyways.

The other issue is space. Given you want/need a shower, a high roof, or similar extended body shell is a strong suggestion. Fitting a wet bath into even a extended body van is going to be hard. It also sounds like you have some serious gear. You will likely need to downsize heavily to fit into a van and not overload it.

Depending on your desired destinations a small Class C RV may be a better choice. They will have most of your items already fitted. Older ones can be had at reasonable prices and can be modified to meet your specific needs. $20-25k would be a good starting place. I have seem them done for less, but lots of work involved as cheaper vehicle usually is... Your best bet is going to be buying an already converted van or RV.

Not trying to say its impossible. But its best to get the facts up front. Good luck.

 

[Happykamper]

If I were you I would rethink the van for above reasons as I did. I just picked up my chinook concourse 21' van today and it is going straight to either Ujoint or whitefeather for 4x4 installation . More then likely Whitefeather as I'm closer to that. I looked at sports mobiles but did not have the room for the amenities my wife wanted, so after talking to wicked van here on portal this was a great idea. I am just getting ready to leave from Seattle to Roseville ca. But I remembered seeing this last night. 29000 for a very low mileage perfect chinook and 14000 for the 4x4 plus suspension lift I wanted . 43000 total. Your not going to find or build a van with the features you want for that. Plus from what I have seen of a lifted 4x4 chinook they look and drive awesome .

 

[goodwaves]

or just do this, throw in a rear locker, front bumper with winch and maybe one of WTD lift kits...

http://www.cruiseamerica.com/buy/modelDetails.aspx?modelID=123&Make=Thor Majestic &ModelNo=19G

 

[84FLH]

luthj;

Thank you very much. Exactly the info I was looking for.

You hit the bullseye on my complete ignorance of RV electrical systems. I trouble shot telecom circuits for many years in my prior employment and added circuits/outlets/recessed lighting/alarm systems in my own home. But that's it. Ditching the generator in lieu of solar is a liberating idea. Not fond of noise myself, especially in the places I'd want to wheel to.

Another bullseye about off road driving. I've got a 4wd SUV. Strictly a road vehicle but I've taken it on a few dirt roads that turned into rutted and rocky jeep roads that turned into rockier foot paths. I only went part way onto the rutted/rocky jeep roads. First lesson? GO SLOW. I know enough to approach a ditch or depression at an angle if possible, to straddle the tire ruts, to reconnoiter on foot if necessary, and keep it in low when going down steep hills. Got into one or two places where I had the "Uh-oh's". I got out but learned there's a whole lot to this "off road" stuff. Maybe I should stick to 4wd quads.

So, yes, I might not really need 4wd. Chains weren't uncommon in the winter when I was a kid and I guess they work as good now as then. I want/need ground clearance, though.

** I need to learn about drive shaft and CV joint angles with vehicle lift. How far is too far before the angles are counter productive? **

Years ago I considered lifting a 1955 Dodge Job Rated pickup I had. Found a few articles about drive line/differential angles. Was fascinating but I decided to leave the old truck alone. In what I've read here so far - and I haven't even scratched the surface of the surface - I haven't found anything about drive line/cv angles and lift. So that's something I'd like to learn much more about. Only with that knowledge would I feel comfortable installing a lift and, more importantly, trusting it on a cross country drive.

I'm not half bad at space utilization, conceptualization of a project, and certain fabrications are limited only by my lack of experience (TIG and metal bending, for example). From 1999-2014 I owned and operated my own, one man machine shop. Rented space inside an existing 10,000 SF shop and plopped my Mori Seiki VMC (CNC) in one corner. I had full use of all the manual lathes and millers, plus all the ancillary items (surface and Blanchard grinders, belt sanders, arbor presses, etc). I fabricated fairly intricate fixtures for my work and overall, for a self taught guy, had a decent little business. Must've learned a few things as I managed to get hired as a CNC department supervisor after I shut my shop down in 2013.

Since my first car at age 18 (1968 Camaro in Sea Mist Green, a one owner vehicle I paid $500 for with 53,000 miles on it in 1973) I've done all my own mtce on my cars, trucks, and motorcycles since then. I'd be competent if nothing else, in a build out. With the required (key word) education on electrical, plumbing, lighting, etc systems I'd do well I believe.

Still, I need to do much research to understand the depth, breadth, and length of such a project. Do I really want to take on a 1,500 or 2,000 or 2,500 hour project? When I was 50 the answer would've be unequivocally "yes". Same at 55. But for some reason at 60 I suddenly find myself more and more unwilling to take on the projects I would have only 5 years ago.

More research is needed. I suspect I'll end up buying something already done, in the end, and modifying it as needed or wanted. Still, though, the education process I'm about to embark on will be priceless when I finally find myself in the place of my dreams.

Anyway....thank you again for the great information.

 

[84FLH]

If I were you I would rethink the van for above reasons as I did. I just picked up my chinook concourse 21' van today and it is going straight to either Ujoint or whitefeather for 4x4 installation . More then likely Whitefeather as I'm closer to that. I looked at sports mobiles but did not have the room for the amenities my wife wanted, so after talking to wicked van here on portal this was a great idea. I am just getting ready to leave from Seattle to Roseville ca. But I remembered seeing this last night. 29000 for a very low mileage perfect chinook and 14000 for the 4x4 plus suspension lift I wanted . 43000 total. Your not going to find or build a van with the features you want for that. Plus from what I have seen of a lifted 4x4 chinook they look and drive awesome .

You may be right about a Class C type vehicle. There's a Chinook not far from me. Every time I drive past I think I ought to stop and ask if I can look at it. I've even seen one or two 4x4 Chinooks for sale on ebay. Still, not sure something like that can take me where I want to go.

In the end it'll probably come down to buying whatever comes closest to the vehicle I imagine I want.

 

[84FLH]

I've built mine, with nearly every item you listed plus more.
My approximate cost with the van is less than $13k. But no 4x4 (yet). With great tires, LSD, clearance and some decent skills behind the wheel I've yet to get stuck... snow, ice, beach, and mud.


Figure out how much you want to spend then triple that. Sounds nuts but close to reality.

After looking over what you want, that list is basically what RVs get. Sure it crosses over to vanping but there are some different equipment available and better suited for the smaller space. SKIP the generator, solar is the diggity!

Have you ever stealth camped before? Lower public profile is paramount. Even my POS is starting to attract attention. Good and bad, people give the thumbs up but want to get closer and talk, then there is the LEO who will also take a peek.
An RV is just an RV... to most people and gets over looked unless it's got bling. Lol

Find a person who is willing to show their van off and get some very basic ideas because after your first trip you WILL find something to nit pick about and change it.

my $.02 ...

Very good advice. Thank you. I might need to revisit and jettison the 4wd idea. I'm probably not going to drive the places I see in the pictures here; at least not to the places where you need 38" tires. Lift, LSD, tires might be good enough for where I want to go.

It's an indictment of the state of our country that I need to worry about being a LE target or targeted for robbery being that I'd be alone. So stealth is another consideration and I'm glad you mentioned it. My purpose in all this is to travel unimpeded and see the great natural resources of our great country. It's as close to the Lewis and Clark expedition as I'll ever get and I darned sure don't want any government interference. There's an entire border that needs to be monitored and it's holes plugged, so any govt agent should start there and leave me, born and raised in the good old USA, darned well enough alone.

And after they're done plugging the border they can start cleaning the Rats we elected out of the House and Senate. And all the "administrative agencies", too.

Rant off.....:wings: