CRITICAL LAND USE MEETING: Prescott, AZ. - BLM comment meeting
- Thread starter crawler#976
- Start date
Ursidae69
Traveller
crawler#976 said:
Man, that is a huge ponderosa! Looks like a skunk bush next to it, (Rhus trilobata).
To keep with the new gun theme that has emerged, here is me with my buddy's 270 I borrowed for a hunt.
Please report back with details on the meeting. I'm curious how it will go.
crawler#976
Expedition Leader
Ursidae69 said:
...it's close to the Yolo Ranch west of Campwood, AZ. once upon a time the worlds largest Ponderosa stood a few hundred yards away. 120' tall with a trunk that measured 16' 10-3/4" in dia @ 4' off the ground. It was struck by a super bolt of lighting many years ago and finally died a year afterwards. Mr.& Mrs. BajaTaco accompanied us to see it's remains. The tree I'm hugging is roughly 13' in dia, and is visable in the background.
http://www.bajataco.com/spiderranch/enlfr.htm?9
crawler#976
Expedition Leader
DOH!
...got diameters on the brain- programming round parts today :xxrotflma
...got diameters on the brain- programming round parts today :xxrotflma
crawler#976
Expedition Leader
Good meeting...
Had about 50 show up – thanks to the TTORA guys from Phx for making the trip! The group was pretty evenly split amongst the groups that use BLM land.
The BLM has done an excellent job integrating a management plan that covers 997,000 acres. The management area stretches from central Phoenix west to Salome, north to Yarnell east to Minnehaha, then north to Prescott, east to Dugas and back south to Phx.
They have listened to all party's involved and other than some minor problems with a 4 mile section of rerouting an ATV trail in the Agua Fria Nat. Monument, I can support "Alternative E" as written. The Table Mesa area is being set aside as special use area, but no route planning will be done until the implementation phase - probably another year or two down the road. Those of us that support crawlin’ will need to be involved heavily in the route selections at that time.
Comments on the plan will still be accepted via snail or e-mail until April 5th. I urge locals or other interested parties to review the plan and make your comments heard.
Mark
Had about 50 show up – thanks to the TTORA guys from Phx for making the trip! The group was pretty evenly split amongst the groups that use BLM land.
The BLM has done an excellent job integrating a management plan that covers 997,000 acres. The management area stretches from central Phoenix west to Salome, north to Yarnell east to Minnehaha, then north to Prescott, east to Dugas and back south to Phx.
They have listened to all party's involved and other than some minor problems with a 4 mile section of rerouting an ATV trail in the Agua Fria Nat. Monument, I can support "Alternative E" as written. The Table Mesa area is being set aside as special use area, but no route planning will be done until the implementation phase - probably another year or two down the road. Those of us that support crawlin’ will need to be involved heavily in the route selections at that time.
Comments on the plan will still be accepted via snail or e-mail until April 5th. I urge locals or other interested parties to review the plan and make your comments heard.
Mark
Ursidae69
Traveller
Thanks for the update. When you say the group was evenly split, which interests were being represented at the meeting? I'd guess it was hunters, antelope folks, OHV, and cattle growers.
Did the "bastion of the Anti-recreational use/Earth First type eco-whackos..." make an appearance? What about general eco-minded folks?
Did the "bastion of the Anti-recreational use/Earth First type eco-whackos..." make an appearance? What about general eco-minded folks?
crawler#976
Expedition Leader
No one from the Antelope Foundation spoke at this meeting - they probably attended one or more of the prior 7 meetings closer to Phx.
No hunters spoke at this meeting. No recreational target shooters spoke either.
Only one rancher and his wife spoke- they operate a ranch within the Monument, and he was pleased with the results of Alt E as well. I complimented him for his work on the surrounding public lands - it is in better shape graze wise than any other I've seen recently. Even during the drought they have not exceeded holding capacity.
Approx half the crowd was done up in the PC grunge look. It's my personal opinion that these folks would be much more effective if they chose to represent themselves with a more "normal" look. The dirty dreadlock, unkempt look doesn't do their intelligence justice. The Wilderness Coalition and Sierra Club made a pitch to the students of PC prior to the meeting, and they raised a few talking points on expanding the areas having wilderness characteristics through out the management area, and suggesting portions of the Agua Fria Nat. Mon. (Specifically tributaries of the Agua Fria) be designated as scenic and wild river area. Several comments made by the Anti-recreational use/Earth First type eco-whacko's made sense, some made rambling diatribes. The same could be said for the OHV supporters as well.
There were two comments made by generalist in favor of the plan - the eco-minded folk as it were.
There was one comment made in regards to mineral rights and mining uses.
Several groups represented the OHV users. The Prescott Open Trails Assoc. (ATV users) and Whiplash Motor Sports (organized desert racing) representaives both spoke. POTA focused primarily on wash travel within the Mon., while Whiplash spoke on the lack of resources allotted for the area around Wickenburg where they hold their events.
I chose to not make a public comment, I'll do that via e-mail now that I have a better understanding of the document, and can spend more time reviewing it. I did spend roughly 20 minutes with the plan manager and staff prior to the meeting going over the maps and got answers to several questions I had on generalities within the areas I'm focused on.
No hunters spoke at this meeting. No recreational target shooters spoke either.
Only one rancher and his wife spoke- they operate a ranch within the Monument, and he was pleased with the results of Alt E as well. I complimented him for his work on the surrounding public lands - it is in better shape graze wise than any other I've seen recently. Even during the drought they have not exceeded holding capacity.
Approx half the crowd was done up in the PC grunge look. It's my personal opinion that these folks would be much more effective if they chose to represent themselves with a more "normal" look. The dirty dreadlock, unkempt look doesn't do their intelligence justice. The Wilderness Coalition and Sierra Club made a pitch to the students of PC prior to the meeting, and they raised a few talking points on expanding the areas having wilderness characteristics through out the management area, and suggesting portions of the Agua Fria Nat. Mon. (Specifically tributaries of the Agua Fria) be designated as scenic and wild river area. Several comments made by the Anti-recreational use/Earth First type eco-whacko's made sense, some made rambling diatribes. The same could be said for the OHV supporters as well.
There were two comments made by generalist in favor of the plan - the eco-minded folk as it were.
There was one comment made in regards to mineral rights and mining uses.
Several groups represented the OHV users. The Prescott Open Trails Assoc. (ATV users) and Whiplash Motor Sports (organized desert racing) representaives both spoke. POTA focused primarily on wash travel within the Mon., while Whiplash spoke on the lack of resources allotted for the area around Wickenburg where they hold their events.
I chose to not make a public comment, I'll do that via e-mail now that I have a better understanding of the document, and can spend more time reviewing it. I did spend roughly 20 minutes with the plan manager and staff prior to the meeting going over the maps and got answers to several questions I had on generalities within the areas I'm focused on.
Ursidae69
Traveller
crawler#976 said:
Interesting, but I guess they are happy with alternative "e" and didn't feel the need to be there.
Very cool, public land grazing in the southwest can be done right, but it is a lot harder in terms of money for the rancher, so I applaud anyone that can do it.
I agree with you here. Of course, to each his own ya know, but I still agree.
That is to be expected, your making posts here to bring folks out is the same as SC announcing this meeting at PC. Both sides know how important public comment is. I've not actually hiked or been through Agua Fria NM since I was a kid. I remember as a youngster riding my 3-wheeler up and down the river and all over the place there. Certainly not something I'd do now. Making the tributaries protected as wilderness doesn't sound that bad, especially for the bald eagles and other birds that use it for breeding grounds. Are there roads in the areas suggested that would get affected?
Wish I had a transcript, I love hearing this stuff, the diatribes are often pretty funny.
I'm curious how the ATV groups sell themselves. I know that not all ATV riders are bad, they have bad apples that ruin things same as we have, but I think there are a lot more bad apples in the ATV crowd. That IMO is due to the low cost to get into the sport. There is a thread on this board about it being illegal to drive in washes in parts of AZ, I didn't know that, wonder if that is true in this area?
Your interaction with the managers was probably time better spent than making a public comment anyway.
Regarding the trail designation in the future, what is your take on that after talking with the managers and seeing the maps? Do you think they will be open to hearing about the hardcore trails that you guys do? How do you plan to approach that? Maybe harder trails can be designated, but left off of maps to keep inexperienced people off them?
Thanks for the post. :clapsmile
crawler#976
Expedition Leader
Chris Horyza (the plan manager) could not give me any specifics on the route defination process. The BLM has plotted GPS routes for the existing hard core trails, and is suggesting the routes, when formalized, be named and signed with difficulty info (1 to 5 or 1 to 10 scale). There will be routes closed - I can virtually guarentee that Armagedeon will be removed from the list due to it's traversing thru a riparian area. That's fine by me...as long as we're allowed to continue with the sport elswhere in the area.
One of my other comments directed specifically to Rock Crawlin involved treating it like boating. Specific equipment is required for boating - both safety wise and environmentally. Boaters are required to use PFD's and are prohbited from discharging fluids into the water. Perhaps once trails reach a level of difficulty, let's say 4.0 or above on the 1 to 5 scale, extreme trails call for the use of safety equipment, fuel cells and catch cans for prevention of spillage. Unfortunatelly the BLM doesn't have the authority to impose those types of regulations.