Cummins B3.3 Powered FJ60

[TangoBlue]

Also, the one installed in ProwlerDriver's 60 is an all mechanical version B3.3. There is a computer controlled version of the B3.3 and it puts out a 110 hp and 300 ft lbs of torque. This version would be even more peppy and get even better fuel mileage. Estimated fuel mileage would be in the high 20's, maybe even 30 mpg.

Pardon the hijack but this gives cause to ponder the possibilities for a Toyota that doesn't lead with "FJ."

I wonder how an ECU controlled B3.3 might do in a 2001 Tacoma as a replacement for the 3RZ FE? Care to speculate Grease Cruiser?

A 1KZ and 1 KD does work but then there's the concern of support and maintenance... do you know of anyone who's done this to the Tacoma? Compatibility with the transmission especially the A340.

Hijack off.

 

[Sloan]

Have you guys converted any California trucks? I may have some ways through but just wondering if you guys have had any experience. Can the FJ60 still have AC? I am going to call you guys monday and we'll talk.

 

[nickw]

Rebuild

Horsepower is 85 and torque is 215 ft lbs.

According to Cummins, you have to START THINKING about a rebuild at 400K miles.

We have installed several of these engines in 40's and 45's but never in a 60. We were a little hesitant to install one in a heavy wagon but we were willing to give it a shot after discussing the project with ProwlerDriver. I was pleasantly surprised of how well the B3.3 performs in a 60. It is a lot more powerful than we expected.

It is not a rocket ship by any means, but it is quite peppy and the fuel mileage is spectacular. It is also a LOT quieter than a Cummins 3.9L 4BT. The B3.3L is an excellent engine for a light overland vehicle and/or daily driver. I don't think I would recommend it for a heavy Cruiser wagon especially one that does a lot of medium to heavy towing.

Also, the one installed in ProwlerDriver's 60 is an all mechanical version B3.3. There is a computer controlled version of the B3.3 and it puts out a 110 hp and 300 ft lbs of torque. This version would be even more peppy and get even better fuel mileage. Estimated fuel mileage would be in the high 20's, maybe even 30 mpg.

Hope that helps.

Greasecruiser - where did you get the 400,000 figure? As far as I know Cummins never put the 3.3 in a over the road vehicle that would get anywhere near the mileage like that (and I imagine they would not condone the use of one in a over the road vehicle). Are you basing the figure on average speeds vs average hours between rebuilds?

I think its a great little engine, but haven't heard much in the way of longevity since its 'relatively' new.


Thanks

 

[Grease Cruiser]

Have you guys converted any California trucks? I may have some ways through but just wondering if you guys have had any experience. Can the FJ60 still have AC? I am going to call you guys monday and we'll talk.

We have done many 4BT conversions for people in California but not a B3.3

Yes, the FJ60 can still have AC.

Unfortunately, I won't be in Monday but I will be in Tuesday. Feel free to call either day.

Greasecruiser - where did you get the 400,000 figure? As far as I know Cummins never put the 3.3 in a over the road vehicle that would get anywhere near the mileage like that (and I imagine they would not condone the use of one in a over the road vehicle). Are you basing the figure on average speeds vs average hours between rebuilds?

I think its a great little engine, but haven't heard much in the way of longevity since its 'relatively' new.


Thanks

You are correct, the B3.3 was never put in a production vehicle here in North America. I have heard of a version of the B3.3 that was put in production vehicles elsewhere, but I don't know where or what.

For what it is worth, the B3.3 has been in production for awhile now. I don't know exactly when it came out, but I know of a Tier 1 from 2003. Cummins is now on their Tier 4 version which is the computerized version. ProwlerDriver's B3.3 is a brand new Tier 3 version from 2006 and was sourced from a Cummins NOS distributor.

Also, the B3.3 is a joint venture of Cummins and Komatsu out of Japan. Komatsu Cummins designed the engine and makes most of them in Oyama, Japan however, some are outsourced to South America. So, since the B3.3 is a Japanese (+/-) engine, in theory a Cummins B3.3 powered Cruiser is still all Japanese ...for what it is worth.

The 400K+/- mile figure was told to me by our Cummins rep and it may not have an actual real world figure. I believe he 'loosely' based that number on Cummins recommended rebuild service of 10,000-12,000 hours and average vehicle speed of 35-40 mph. It seems logical and good enough for me :sombrero:


Disclaimer: Please remember that the B3.3 is an OFF HIGHWAY engine and is not 50 state legal. Proffitt's Cruisers has installed a few of these engines for customers but for OFF ROAD USE ONLY. Please check your local laws and regulations if you are considering a conversion of this nature.

 

[Pokey]

Heya Grease- you mentioned the ECU 110hp version..........is that basically the same engine with Ecu and slighty bumped up fuel mgmt?

also- whats the price difference between the $5k-ish b3.3 and the ecu version?

 

[hks3sgte]

Interesting. I'm sure an intercooler and a bump in fuel/boost will make that 3.3 perfect.

 

[Viggen]

Pardon the hijack but this gives cause to ponder the possibilities for a Toyota that doesn't lead with "FJ."

I wonder how an ECU controlled B3.3 might do in a 2001 Tacoma as a replacement for the 3RZ FE? Care to speculate Grease Cruiser?

A 1KZ and 1 KD does work but then there's the concern of support and maintenance... do you know of anyone who's done this to the Tacoma? Compatibility with the transmission especially the A340.

Hijack off.

You wont make it through emissions. Just a heads up. VA DEQ requires working OBDII when equipped and doing a swap like this will kill it. Non operational OBD equals automatic fail. Not to mention that its a newer truck so youll probably have to take it by DEQs office in 'Hoodbridge for a visual inspection before they can change the title to diesel (from the mouth of the head of VAs DEQ) and if he asks where the motor came from (since by law, it has to be your model year or newer, same class of vehicle and an on road diesel) you might be in for it. Just some words....

 

[TangoBlue]

You wont make it through emissions. Just a heads up. VA DEQ requires working OBDII when equipped and doing a swap like this will kill it. Non operational OBD equals automatic fail. Not to mention that its a newer truck so youll probably have to take it by DEQs office in 'Hoodbridge for a visual inspection before they can change the title to diesel (from the mouth of the head of VAs DEQ) and if he asks where the motor came from (since by law, it has to be your model year or newer, same class of vehicle and an on road diesel) you might be in for it. Just some words....

Well, aren't you just a ray of sunshine...

Yeah, thanks for the details and that's what I figured since I'm a resident of an emissions inspection county. I think the only way to comply with that would be to stick with the 1KZ or 1KD, but this engine seems to have a lot of potential.

So you haven't fallen off the planet. We (some former CCLC colleagues) were talking about you at the Fall Crawl last weekend. Hope all is well and plans are progressing...

 

[ersatzknarf]

Hi GC,
This conversion has so much potential ! Wonderful :sombrero:
Please can you tell us more about the new version and if it is available ?
Thanks ! ! !

Horsepower is 85 and torque is 215 ft lbs.

<snip>

There is a computer controlled version of the B3.3 and it puts out a 110 hp and 300 ft lbs of torque. This version would be even more peppy and get even better fuel mileage. Estimated fuel mileage would be in the high 20's, maybe even 30 mpg.

Hope that helps.

 

[Viggen]

Well, aren't you just a ray of sunshine...

Yeah, thanks for the details and that's what I figured since I'm a resident of an emissions inspection county. I think the only way to comply with that would be to stick with the 1KZ or 1KD, but this engine seems to have a lot of potential.

So you haven't fallen off the planet. We (some former CCLC colleagues) were talking about you at the Fall Crawl last weekend. Hope all is well and plans are progressing...

Nothing but sunshine, butterflies and unicorns...

No, still here, sort of. Im in Manchester, England for a year (getting rained on). Back sometime in Sept '12 for a couple of months and then back to graduate in Dec. Ill have another rig by the end of Sept to build up. Kind of thinking I want to do more of a build this time (rather than finish what others started). Either another 60, a 55 (although lack of just about anything parts wise is a little scary) or a first gen 4R (fiance emailed me a cell phone picture of one she saw the other day with the caption 'Whats this and can this be the next one?').

Ive been looking through the Crawl photos on Mud and wishing I could be out there having fun. Instead, Im buried under International Relations texts and .pdfs just trying to keep my head above water. Back when I had the D1 I was looking at a transplant and ran into the DEQ issue. If it were pre OBD, I dont think youd have an issue. This strikes me as a motor very much like the 3B. I know that the 2LT (or whatever it is) had issues, do the KZ or KD? What about parts supply for those? Did they make it to Canada?

 

[TangoBlue]

It's equally dreary here and good to hear you're doing well. I'll PM you back to avoid completely hijacking this interesting thread.

 

[ersatzknarf]

Okay, well that kind of settles considering the computer-controlled one, which is fine... Thank you.

What sort of vehicle sizes/weights does this engine work well with, please ? Is an FJ60 so heavy to not be considered a likely candidate (it worked out very well, in this case, however) ? (what is that sort of weight, please ?)

This just seems like a fantastic powerplant to consider for a whole host of conversions. Someone mentioned putting one into a Tacoma... Would that be too much for a B3.3 ?

Sure hoping the OP will chime in with how this convesion is working out over time . . .

Has anyone tweaked one of these motors ? What can one expect for economy/power trade-offs, I wonder ? I get the impression that there is more to be found, without losing too much economy.

Sorry, just can't let go of this one. It's such a great choice, given the limited availability of choices here in the states, and that it's local and has support makes it all the more attractive.

One issue with the computer controlled version of the B3.3 is that they are limited by the computer at 2600 RPM the last I was told by the Cummins Rep., so they may produce more power on paper, but drive-ability might be an issue. The mechanical version has an automotive style injection pump so if someone wanted to play with the fueling and boost it could be done. They are great little engines.

 

[4xdog]

That's a beautiful install. I know where you're comin' from ProwlerDriver regarding quality, and that would more than meet my standards, too! Good job Proffitt's!

Don
2001 Toyota Tacoma DC 4WD TRD
1988 Jeep Cherokee XJ Limited
1962 Triumph TR3B
2008 Lexus RX350

 

[ersatzknarf]

Thank you very much, that does help.

The intercooler and "proper gearing" are points to consider. With respect to the gearing, what should one consider, please ?

I think someone posted the link to the Jeep mentioned. I'll have to have another look...

The Cummins B3.3 is comparable to what the Toyota 3B that was placed in the HJ60 Toyota Land Cruisers. It can handle the weight but will be no speed demon and will slow down on hills---pretty much just like a factory Toyota will. On the Carbon Neutral Expedition I took my truck weighed in over 6500 lbs and I was passing an FJ80 with a 1HDT going up steeper hills. It all comes down to proper gearing and having an inter-cooler on these engines if you want to run them hard. I tend to leave the engine stock as they leave the shop as I would prefer to have them broken in that way--however if you do a search for a Jeep with a B3.3 he has quite the write up on his tweaks. Cummins is conservative on their fuel/boost with this motor and it has an automotive style injection pump making it easy to fiddle with. Hope this helps.

 

[1911]

With respect to the gearing, what should one consider, please ?

Most diesels are under-square engines (stroke is longer than the diameter of the bore) because they're designed to be torque monsters especially on the low end of rpm range. The B3.3 fits this description, with a stroke of 115 mm and a bore of only 95 mm. Notice that it makes its peak torque at only 1600 RPM! http://www.cummins-sp.com/document_library/Spec_Sheets/Engines/Industrial/B3-3_Spec%20Sheet.pdf This is terrific for a wheeling motor, to have all that torque at such low rpm - but the downside to that long stroke is that you can't rev it very high; too much mass in the pistons and rods to move and change directions fast.

So as has been noted, the red line of this engine is something like 2600 RPM. Any gasoline truck engine has a much higher red line than that, so whatever transmission and differential you have now is geared for a gasoline engine that will spin way faster. On an FJ40 or an FJ60 it doesn't matter quite as much since the F-series gasoline engines only have a practical red line of 3-4,000 rpm (yeah I know they will spin more, but you don't get much more out of the top end), so they would do OK with an H55 5th-gear overdrive or a higher-geared diff and/or larger tires and an H41/42 transmission. As an example, my FJ40 with an H41, 3.7 diffs, and 33" tires will run down the highway very comfortably at 65 mph pulling 2500 rpm from the stock 2F engine. The 2F has more head room than that, and it will go 75-80 on a flat road if you REALLY want it to but it's a lot happier and safer at 65. But if I dropped in a B3.3, now we're talking about 65-70 mph being the absolute top speed no matter what (because of the 2600 rpm red line), and having to run it at full-tilt boogie all the time just to maintain that speed.

Newer trucks are likely to be worse. As an example, the 1GR-FE gasoline V6 in the Tacoma and FJC has a red line of 5,500 rpm, more than twice that of the B3.3. These trucks are geared for that engine, which makes its peak torque much higher at 3,800 rpm.

Bottom line is, to use the Cummins B3.3 in any truck, you're going to have to: 1. do the math with your stock drive train, 2. figure out what kind of top speed on the highway you're willing to live with, and 3. be willing to change your transmission and/or final gearing to suit the power band of the B3.3.