Curious to get your take on the new direction of Disco

[Christophe Noel]

As a lover of the brand, I like everything they do, but wonder if this might be the final drop of the penny and the point when LR finally abandons the off-road enthusiast.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/land-rover/2949-land-rover-s-discovery-vision-concept.html

 

[ZG]

Supposedly it's not a continuation of the Disco, but of the LR2. So, I don't really care much about what they do with the LR2. It's the Defender's successor that we should be looking out for.

 

[PhyrraM]

I won't comment on styling, as that is always progressing and very opinion based.

However, I don't see where the "abandoning off-road" sentiments come from. Other than the tires and large wheels, every new Rover has been more capable than it's replacement. Disco1>Disco2>Disco3>Disco4 have all been at least slight improvements. Stock for stock. Same with the progressing generations of Range Rover and even the Series>Defender came with better off road capabilities.

The original Freelander was pretty pale compared to the rest of the LR line, but it was likely the best compact FWD based, unibody, no-low-range SUV off roader you could buy at any price. The addition of terrain response on the LR2 and Evoque only made them better at off roading.

While Land Rover may not be actively entertaining the 'Vehicle based exploration' community anymore, they certainly have the best (or very close to the best) off-road capability in every market segment they do enter.

I think what most folks are really trying to say when they complain about 'modern Rovers' is that they, personally, are part of a small, specialized, low volume, low profit market and they are having a hard time understanding that Land Rover cannot put more effort and resources into that small market than the returns they can get out of it justify. So they complain and nit pick.

 

[haven]

The Discovery Vision Concept looks every bit as capable off-road as the current model. While many regard the electronic gadgetry with suspicion, I think the new tools, particularly the "invisible hood" view available through multiple cameras mounted on the undercarriage, will be an improvement.

The Discovery has to modernize to stay relevant. The LR2 and LR4 compete for sales in the toughest car category -- semi-luxury SUV. The $35K - $70K price range has some fearsome competitors. Lexus, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, Grand Cherokee, Cadillac, Infiniti compete on the high end; just about all car companies have offerings on the low end of the range. The Discovery has to stand out through a mix of caché, technology and capability.

 

[Eniam17]

While Land Rover may not be actively entertaining the 'Vehicle based exploration' community anymore, they certainly have the best (or very close to the best) off-road capability in every market segment they do enter.

I think what most folks are really trying to say when they complain about 'modern Rovers' is that they, personally, are part of a small, specialized, low volume, low profit market and they are having a hard time understanding that Land Rover cannot put more effort and resources into that small market than the returns they can get out of it justify. So they complain and nit pick.

Thank you for saying this!!!! Most Rover enthusiasts just don't fall into JLR's target market and it seems people just don't get that. To stay competitive (and in existence; we all know what has been going on with the brand for the last 20 years) they have no choice but to evolve. With all the challenges facing the automotive industry such as emissions regulations, safety regulations, etc., no one can survive by producing a box on wheels that gets 15 mpg anymore, as much as that is what many of us like. I hope the new Defender model still competes with the style of something like a loaded Wrangler Rubicon.

I still think people over-react to every new model that comes out and how "bad" they are going to be. I remember going to a dealership sponsored offroad event in 1999 and they took a brand new D2 with 18" wheels and street tires out and most of the day consisted of D1, RRC, and series owners ******tting all over the D2 . "rover has lost it's way, they are done." "These things will never be offroad, these are mall crawlers." Fast forward to 2014 and here we are with tens of thousands of D2's being used as built up trail rigs. Same thing is happening with the LR3.

Like it or not computers control everything now - planes, military strategy, stock market trading, you name it. Every vehicle out there is loaded with electronics now so at least Rover is on the cutting edge of technology. All this being said, I hope I can keep my 89 Classic going for another 25 years....

 

[roverandom]

Folks over react to new Land Rovers because they are not, in fact, stock for stock any better (usually worse) than the old model.
Keep your fancy gadgets and computer controlled doodads, I would put a stock 1989 DI up against a stock LR4 or 'vision' any day. Ask yourself, could a LR4 manage a camel trophy rainforest event? No, it would just sink. The only real difference off road is the DI needs a real driver, new LR's just need someone to steer and press a button.

You don't need a gin palace on wheels or a playstation in order to evolve a brand. Honestly, how many enthusiasts would consider a vehicle like a wrangler if it were a Land Rover product? If Land Rover sold new, well built, efficient, real off roaders with proper off road attributes made of metal that were anything close to affordable nobody would be building LR3/4's or p38's and DII's. perhaps even the old Defenders would even give way as the Series III did with the 110.

Having said that, I don't care what the D5? Looks like or what it is able to do. It has moved into the market previously occupied by Range Rover before it went 100% luxury limo. Look for the real Discovery replacement to be wearing a Defender badge. All indication point to the Defender 'brand' as being the off road torch bearer for Land Rover.


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[Some Dude]

Ask yourself, could a LR4 manage a camel trophy rainforest event? No, it would just sink. The only real difference off road is the DI needs a real driver, new LR's just need someone to steer and press a button.

Here's a guy who's never driven an LR4 off road.

 

[Ray_G]

Here's a guy who's never driven an LR4 off road.

Given where he lives, and what he's done to his LR3 in that environment, I'm not sure that statement is totally accurate (or fair).

To the OP's question; I think Land Rover has done a masterful job of staying viable as a company-if they'd stuck with the Defender as a logical extension of the Series truck the company would not exist right now. The RRC started them in a direction that has given them validity, but the Disco is the reason the company still exists. That context has to be acknowledged no matter how much a very small aspect of the overall population yearns for simple and square, that doesn't have broad base viability.

As to whether or not they have abandoned the offroad segment and such...I don't see other brands taking stock vehicles out on the TAT. A nation full of Jeeps that everyone points toward as the model for what 'we want' and yet...

I love my coil sprung D1 for what she is and appreciate what she's not. The same is true for my LR3 platform. I do have concerns about how resilient it is for harsh environments, but then again that product isn't designed for that application. The CT as an example only has but so much bearing; the support train direct from the factory behind those trucks illustrates the significant logistical tail to what often appears to be some far flung expedition alone and unafraid.
r-
Ray

 

[Dendy Jarrett]

Do I like the look of the new "Discovery?" No! Will it grow on me in time? It is doubtful, but (in the spirit of transparency) I felt the same way about the LR3 when if first was introduced. The big difference, is now that I own an LR3 and have "kitted" it, I can see the heritage lines back to the DI and DII. Not so sure this will be the case with this new truck.

Regarding DI vs. LR3/4: Some people (mostly those in 3rd World countries or people that are "preppers," would prefer the "drive by wire" truck. Where is the real balance? I am unsure. The drive by wire trucks are somewhat bomb proof, but your trade off is normal everyday comforts we have come to expect in our vehicles. Some people like commuting everyday on a motorcycle, but hey, that isn't for me.

I like the capabilities of the LR3/4 but the balance it strikes that includes nice accommodations for US highway driving. To the post by "roverandom" I have seen plenty of DI's in CT events "sink" in the Amazonian RainForests!

D

 

[roverandom]

I drive my LR3 off road quite a lot actually and have made several modifications to that end. It's too heavy and the tyres are way too small to get serious though.

On road it's much better. Such is the nature of modern cars. But stock to stock comparisons are futile. What matters in any vehicle that is expected to do more than commute to work is how easy it is to customize to a customers individual needs.

The genius of the JK is that it had been designed from the start to be customizable. I can go into a Jeep dealer today and order lift kits, big tyres and even portal axles if i wanted to. Right from the dealer with a warranty on a new Jeep with financing. And thats before the aftermarket options. It filled a massive gap in the market. It's a modern day off road reincarnation of the Pontiac GTO.

If it had been a LR product it would have filled the coffers more effectively than the Discovery, Freelander and Evoke all together.

In 2012 LR celebrated the millionth Discovery of all generations built from1989-2012. About two months later Jeep celebrated the millionth JK Wrangler built. That's just the Wranglers built between 2007-2012.

If Gerry McGovern had designed a JK type Defender in 07 and done even half those sales figures he would have been hailed a hero and set on a pedestal next to Maurice Wilks and CSK.






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[ZG]

No question, the Lr4 is more capable in stock form than a D1. Very clear in the comparison recently done by lucky8.


A d1 technically won, but that was mostly a gag as it was very clear which one was more capable.

 

[roverandom]

My Series I can out perform a LR3 off road. Just needs a driver that understands how to get the best out of it. LR3 you need a driver that understands how to get around the overly intrusive TR programs............and stay away from soft ground.


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[Ray_G]

I drive my LR3 off road quite a lot actually and have made several modifications to that end. It's too heavy and the tyres are way too small to get serious though.

On road it's much better. Such is the nature of modern cars. But stock to stock comparisons are futile. What matters in any vehicle that is expected to do more than commute to work is how easy it is to customize to a customers individual needs.

The genius of the JK is that it had been designed from the start to be customizable. I can go into a Jeep dealer today and order lift kits, big tyres and even portal axles if i wanted to. Right from the dealer with a warranty on a new Jeep with financing. And thats before the aftermarket options. It filled a massive gap in the market. It's a modern day off road reincarnation of the Pontiac GTO.

If it had been a LR product it would have filled the coffers more effectively than the Discovery, Freelander and Evoke all together.

In 2012 LR celebrated the millionth Discovery of all generations built from1989-2012. About two months later Jeep celebrated the millionth JK Wrangler built. That's just the Wranglers built between 2007-2012.

If Gerry McGovern had designed a JK type Defender in 07 and done even half those sales figures he would have been hailed a hero and set on a pedestal next to Maurice Wilks and CSK.

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A lot of that is supposition. The sales numbers for Defenders when they were imported don't support that contention, and the difficulty to hit USDM specs only increased since then. Given that Land Rover sales are doing quite well-and their best emerging market is China (who wants luxury vehicles) not necessarily the US, I think they are making the right call for the right reasons.

Jeep has an appeal and a base in the US that Land Rover would never overcome; can't lose a fight you don't get in to-so don't try to out do them. That also keeps everyone from driving a Defender that looks like every other person driving down the road today (i.e. the Jeep reality that I can drive 10mi and see 10-15 'built' 4 door jeeps that are as soulless as a Toyota Pious.) No doubt they are targeting a different demographic, and doing well with it.
r-
Ray

 

[roverandom]

Not so much supposition as you might think. The 1987 Range Rover broke LR into the ultra competitive NA SUV market that had several similar products all by major American manufactures with a high customer loyalty base. The 1994 DI did the same. It was a success despite massive competition in that market segment.

Land Rover left the poor Defender to die on the vine. It is essentially the same truck they have been selling since 1983 that was a coil spring upgrade of a much earlier design. They don't deserve good sales.

If jeep was still making the 1983 CJ5 with a few minor upgrades they would have crappy sales as well.

Any way you slice it Land Rover abandoned the utility market. You can blame Jeep, you can blame domestic pickup trucks but somehow Toyota had managed to carve out a significant piece of the NA off road pie. I blame Land Rover for a total lack of effort.

In the UK, you can see 'built' DI's and Defenders all day with Jeeps being the quirky import unit. The Jeeps are gaining serious ground in the market though.

China would be great chance for Land Rover to dominate the utility market with a good new Defender product. Not everyone in China can afford a new Range Rover. It's a country that is crying out for a unit that can work hard and operate in remote environments with a minimum of support.


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[Ray_G]

Totally concur they abandoned the utility market; and I would say from their optic for good reason.

That utility vehicle for the Chinese market is in solid hands with Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan and others offering a much better product reliability wise than Land Rover, or Jeep, is likely to offer without significant investment-and if you were looking at it from Rovers optic, why bother?

R-
Ray