D1 Rescue / What have I gotten myself into?
- Thread starter slomatt
- Start date
slomatt
Adventurer
After resisting the call of the Rover for 5 years (Rovers Anonymous) this weekend I finally cracked and turned to the oily side. Now while I wait for the RAVE manual to download, I figured I'd stand up in front of my fellow addicts and share my new journey. This post will probably get a little long winded, but there is somewhat of a surprise towards the end.
In 2008 I strongly considered purchasing a Discovery, but since I was just getting out of a relationship with a Jeep with 160k miles I was extremely hesitant to buy another vehicle that could be trusted to breakdown at least once every month. Instead I searched for a long time and purchased a 2000 4Runner 5spd with only 84k miles. This truck has been bulletproof for the last ~4 years and I have been extremely happy with it. I have no intention of getting rid of the 4Runner, but I have kept an eye on Craigslist just to see what pops up.
Early last week an ad appeared for a 1996 Discovery. The owner was very forthcoming about the truck's faults (and there are quite a few of them), and this Saturday a friend and I went to check it out. After a test drive, crawling around under the truck, and some negotiations I ended up buying the Disco.
At this point I should mention the following possibly relevant points:
1. I had no intention of buying a 3rd car any time soon. This was a very spontaneous purchase.
2. I am getting married later this year and we are trying to save money for the wedding.
3. We are in the process of purchasing a house and are currently living in a temporary apartment. My shop is packed up and in storage. I have no parking spot for another vehicle, or a place to work on one.
4. Even given the above 3 points, my fiance was on board and supportive of the purchase!
On Saturday evening we had plans in San Francisco so I had no time to drive the Discovery home after the purchase. I ended up driving it through rush hour traffic and parking it outside a BART (subway) station in Oakland and leaving it overnight while I went back into the city. Sunday I took BART to Oakland, picked up the truck, and drove it to a friend's house where it is currently quietly dripping on his side yard.
So, that's the purchase story. The details on the truck are that it is a 1996 Discovery 5spd with 180k miles on the chassis and when I arrived to check it out I was happy to find out that it is a SD model with no sunroofs to leak or power seats to break. There is no major damage to the exterior or rips/tears in the interior, but both are quite dirty and the paint is faded. The previous owner kept up with maintenance to some extent, but has not been driving it much for the last few months.
The whole point of this purchase is that it will be a long term "rescue" project. Once we get our house purchase finalized then I'll be able to start the slow restoration process on the truck. For now my goal is to get the tow major mechanical issues sorted out, and then to essentially leave it in a state of suspended animation for a while.
Here is an overview of the good and bad parts of the truck as it currently sits.
Exterior
+ No major damage, only a couple of small dings.
- Paint is very faded.
- One headlight has moisture inside it.
- Small amount of rust in the standard spot below the safari windows.
- Front bullbar is broken (I was going to remove it anyway)
- Needs new wiper blades.
- Hood latch is bent and needs to be repaired/replaced.
- Wheels are oxidizing and need to be repainted.
- Windshield is cracked.
- Rear quarter window weatherstriping is "perished".
- Radio antenna is broken.
Interior
+ No rips or tears in the seats or carpet.
+ All four power windows work!
+ Both power mirrors work!
+ Owners manual is in the glove box.
+ Factory jack and tool kit are in the back.
+ Roof rails are in a bag under the rear seat.
- Headliner is sagging.
- Driver's seat foam is worn out.
- Carpet is quite dirty.
- Rear view mirror is hazy.
- Stereo does not work, and there are old wires from a previous stereo install.
- Center console is loose.
- Steering wheel is worn out and crumbly at the top.
Engine/Driveline
+ Transfer case seems to work perfectly including the CDL.
+ No vibrations, steering pulling, or rattles when driving.
+ Brand new batteries (yes, there are two).
- Battery tie downs are missing for both batteries.
- Wiring needs to be cleaned up.
- Valve cover gasket has a small leak.
- Hood insulation is falling down.
- MASSIVE power steering leak. The previous owner had the box and the hoses replaced, so it is likely the power steering pump. There is a lot of fluid all over and I haven't tracked the leak down yet, but it is quite likely the sector shaft seal.
- R380 Transmission is difficult to get into 1st gear and impossible to get into reverse gear unless the engine is not running. Once moving all forward gears work properly, but I have to rev-match to shift into them. My hope is that this is a simple hydraulic issue, possibly with the clutch damper. With all the power steering fluid everywhere it is impossible to spot other leaks. With the high mileage on the truck I'll probably just replace the master and slave cylinders, the hoses, and the clutch damper.
- Car pulls slightly to one side during hard breaking. It's hard to inspect things through the 1/8" of caked on power steering fluid. If the calipers need to be rebuilt that's not a big deal, or a slide pin could just be sticky.
There are probably more problems that I've forgotten to mention or that I have not discovered yet, and I'm sure anybody who bothered to read this far is wondering why I picked this truck when you can find much better condition Discos for little money, and that is a very valid question. In my defense I should say that the truck drives very well. The suspension is a bit soft (OME to the rescue), but it handles 75mph on the freeway easily with no pulling, vibrations, or strange noises... and it does it while getting 25+ mpg because this thing has as 300tdi in it!
The engine swap was done by Jim Pendleton in 2007 and the truck has gone 75k miles since then. The previous owner has been running the truck on biodiesel and really like the vehicle, but he is getting his graduate degree and couldn't afford to deal with the power steering and transmission issues so I was able to get a good price for it.
This purchase was a bit risky, but I was lucky enough to be the first person to test drive it and though it is dirty it is also solid and I think the truck has a lot of potential. The best (and most important) news is that the truck is registered in California as a diesel, and has been for 5+ years. This morning I transferred the the title with no problems, and in a week or so I should have the final DMV papers.
So, that is the story for now. I'm pretty excited about this project and will probably be posting here quite often with questions. Any thoughts/comments/suggestions are always appreciated, especially input on the steering leak or transmission issue. Oh, and from looking at pictures it seems that most 300tdis have only a single battery (12v), but this truck has two. Were there both 12v and 24v models? Hmmm....
- Matt
In 2008 I strongly considered purchasing a Discovery, but since I was just getting out of a relationship with a Jeep with 160k miles I was extremely hesitant to buy another vehicle that could be trusted to breakdown at least once every month. Instead I searched for a long time and purchased a 2000 4Runner 5spd with only 84k miles. This truck has been bulletproof for the last ~4 years and I have been extremely happy with it. I have no intention of getting rid of the 4Runner, but I have kept an eye on Craigslist just to see what pops up.
Early last week an ad appeared for a 1996 Discovery. The owner was very forthcoming about the truck's faults (and there are quite a few of them), and this Saturday a friend and I went to check it out. After a test drive, crawling around under the truck, and some negotiations I ended up buying the Disco.
At this point I should mention the following possibly relevant points:
1. I had no intention of buying a 3rd car any time soon. This was a very spontaneous purchase.
2. I am getting married later this year and we are trying to save money for the wedding.
3. We are in the process of purchasing a house and are currently living in a temporary apartment. My shop is packed up and in storage. I have no parking spot for another vehicle, or a place to work on one.
4. Even given the above 3 points, my fiance was on board and supportive of the purchase!
On Saturday evening we had plans in San Francisco so I had no time to drive the Discovery home after the purchase. I ended up driving it through rush hour traffic and parking it outside a BART (subway) station in Oakland and leaving it overnight while I went back into the city. Sunday I took BART to Oakland, picked up the truck, and drove it to a friend's house where it is currently quietly dripping on his side yard.
So, that's the purchase story. The details on the truck are that it is a 1996 Discovery 5spd with 180k miles on the chassis and when I arrived to check it out I was happy to find out that it is a SD model with no sunroofs to leak or power seats to break. There is no major damage to the exterior or rips/tears in the interior, but both are quite dirty and the paint is faded. The previous owner kept up with maintenance to some extent, but has not been driving it much for the last few months.
The whole point of this purchase is that it will be a long term "rescue" project. Once we get our house purchase finalized then I'll be able to start the slow restoration process on the truck. For now my goal is to get the tow major mechanical issues sorted out, and then to essentially leave it in a state of suspended animation for a while.
Here is an overview of the good and bad parts of the truck as it currently sits.
Exterior
+ No major damage, only a couple of small dings.
- Paint is very faded.
- One headlight has moisture inside it.
- Small amount of rust in the standard spot below the safari windows.
- Front bullbar is broken (I was going to remove it anyway)
- Needs new wiper blades.
- Hood latch is bent and needs to be repaired/replaced.
- Wheels are oxidizing and need to be repainted.
- Windshield is cracked.
- Rear quarter window weatherstriping is "perished".
- Radio antenna is broken.
Interior
+ No rips or tears in the seats or carpet.
+ All four power windows work!
+ Both power mirrors work!
+ Owners manual is in the glove box.
+ Factory jack and tool kit are in the back.
+ Roof rails are in a bag under the rear seat.
- Headliner is sagging.
- Driver's seat foam is worn out.
- Carpet is quite dirty.
- Rear view mirror is hazy.
- Stereo does not work, and there are old wires from a previous stereo install.
- Center console is loose.
- Steering wheel is worn out and crumbly at the top.
Engine/Driveline
+ Transfer case seems to work perfectly including the CDL.
+ No vibrations, steering pulling, or rattles when driving.
+ Brand new batteries (yes, there are two).
- Battery tie downs are missing for both batteries.
- Wiring needs to be cleaned up.
- Valve cover gasket has a small leak.
- Hood insulation is falling down.
- MASSIVE power steering leak. The previous owner had the box and the hoses replaced, so it is likely the power steering pump. There is a lot of fluid all over and I haven't tracked the leak down yet, but it is quite likely the sector shaft seal.
- R380 Transmission is difficult to get into 1st gear and impossible to get into reverse gear unless the engine is not running. Once moving all forward gears work properly, but I have to rev-match to shift into them. My hope is that this is a simple hydraulic issue, possibly with the clutch damper. With all the power steering fluid everywhere it is impossible to spot other leaks. With the high mileage on the truck I'll probably just replace the master and slave cylinders, the hoses, and the clutch damper.
- Car pulls slightly to one side during hard breaking. It's hard to inspect things through the 1/8" of caked on power steering fluid. If the calipers need to be rebuilt that's not a big deal, or a slide pin could just be sticky.
There are probably more problems that I've forgotten to mention or that I have not discovered yet, and I'm sure anybody who bothered to read this far is wondering why I picked this truck when you can find much better condition Discos for little money, and that is a very valid question. In my defense I should say that the truck drives very well. The suspension is a bit soft (OME to the rescue), but it handles 75mph on the freeway easily with no pulling, vibrations, or strange noises... and it does it while getting 25+ mpg because this thing has as 300tdi in it!
The engine swap was done by Jim Pendleton in 2007 and the truck has gone 75k miles since then. The previous owner has been running the truck on biodiesel and really like the vehicle, but he is getting his graduate degree and couldn't afford to deal with the power steering and transmission issues so I was able to get a good price for it. This purchase was a bit risky, but I was lucky enough to be the first person to test drive it and though it is dirty it is also solid and I think the truck has a lot of potential. The best (and most important) news is that the truck is registered in California as a diesel, and has been for 5+ years. This morning I transferred the the title with no problems, and in a week or so I should have the final DMV papers.
So, that is the story for now. I'm pretty excited about this project and will probably be posting here quite often with questions. Any thoughts/comments/suggestions are always appreciated, especially input on the steering leak or transmission issue. Oh, and from looking at pictures it seems that most 300tdis have only a single battery (12v), but this truck has two. Were there both 12v and 24v models? Hmmm....
- Matt
It's pretty common to add a second battery to these trucks. I've done so on mine.
It's got nothing to do with 12/24 volts. They are wired in parallell, possibly with a manual or automatic isolator (not necessary, but nice). I've got mine wired on an isolator so both batteries charge but one of them is hooked up to the regular vehicle stuff and the other handles the radios, fridge and a possible future winch. That way you don't risk killing your starting battery. My isolator will also let me bridge the batteries if need be (like if the starting battery dies from leaving lights on, etc but I still have a charge on the other battery).
slomatt
Adventurer
Definitely true for modified trucks. What is strange in this case is that the truck has no modifications other than the engine swap, and I'd be really surprised if the previous owner put in the second battery as a backup. They do make 24v auxiliaries (alternator, etc) for the 300tdi, but my guess/hope in this case is that during the swap a second battery was added in parallel for extra cranking power. I'm going to dig into the truck a bit more this weekend and will post the findings.
- Matt
The only trucks I'm aware of that had 24v were MoD Defenders. I don't see in what reality it would make sense to swap over everything that needs swapping to make a truck 24v. If the parts even exist (think window computers, etc).
Also, "only an engine swap"? Adding a second battery is a 30 minute project. It's not exactly a major modification and pales in comparison to even the paperwork required to finagle a diesel swap through registration and bring in the completely never-been-federalized engine (typically under the guide of "tractor parts").
MedicalCowboy
Adventurer
I don't think he's saying the motor is a small mod he's just saying that it was weird that the rover had two batteries and no other mods. Which is somewhat weird... ANYWAYS! Nice disco Matt can't wait to see the build.
keoni004
Observer
Nice find! D1 with a 300tdi is certainly a unique truck. With regard to the second battery, maybe the PO was planning on adding a few more toys in the future? Valve cover leak can be addressed...the transmission and braking are more immediately problematic. Otherwise, it looks like a lot of the other broken parts/pieces would be replaced in the process of a long-term project anyway. Subscribed!
wreckdiver1321
Overlander
I'm liking it so far!
Sub'd
Sub'd
slomatt
Adventurer
Thanks! You are exactly correct, I was just commenting that it is weird that the dual batteries are the only modification other than the engine swap. The previous owner was not at all mechanically inclined and seemed to think the truck required two batteries. At initial glance it looks like the positive terminals are tied together and then both batteries are grounded to the frame. This is not a great setup because the batteries can start to try to charge each other, but in this case it is not a huge deal since they are both brand new. In the future I'll probably remove on of the batteries or else put in a switch or isolator so its a cleaner setup.
Do you happen to know what style of battery hold downs come from the factory? There is an unused white strap in the engine compartment, but it doesn't seem to fit over the current battery. Thanks.
- Matt
slomatt
Adventurer
I had a chance to dig around the truck a bit more this weekend.
The batteries are in parallel with the positive terminals are tied directly together (no isolator). The passenger side battery is grounded to a point low down on the engine block, and it's positive lead goes to the fuse block and the starter. The driver side battery is grounded to a bolt on the alternator. Based on this it would be very easy to simply add an isolator to separate the two when the engine is not running.
There are no visible leaks from the clutch master cylinder, clutch damper, or slave cylinder but the slave does look a bit corroded.
After sitting for a week the truck started immediately with one small puff of smoke, nothing out of the ordinary.
- Matt
The batteries are in parallel with the positive terminals are tied directly together (no isolator). The passenger side battery is grounded to a point low down on the engine block, and it's positive lead goes to the fuse block and the starter. The driver side battery is grounded to a bolt on the alternator. Based on this it would be very easy to simply add an isolator to separate the two when the engine is not running.
There are no visible leaks from the clutch master cylinder, clutch damper, or slave cylinder but the slave does look a bit corroded.
After sitting for a week the truck started immediately with one small puff of smoke, nothing out of the ordinary.
- Matt
slomatt
Adventurer
Over the last couple of months I've made some progress with the truck. The good news is that the power steering pump was replaced with a new part from ZF and the leak is now repaired. The bad news is that after replacing the clutch master and slave cylinders and removing the clutch damper the shifting problems are still present, which possibly indicates a more serious problem. Used R380s from V8 trucks are easy to find in the US, but unfortunately the R380 for the 300tdi has different gear ratios and slightly different input shaft dimensions. I emailed Ashcroft in England to see what it would cost to have the transmission rebuilt, and Dave Ashcroft said it actually sounds like the problem is likely caused by clutch drag.
I've been reading a bunch of Rover forums and plan to look into the following possible causes:
- Slave cylinder pushrod is the wrong length. Since the transmission apparently worked fine previously this is unlikely.
- Worn clutch operating arm. These have a tendency to punch through at the pivot point on the 300tdi since the arm is stamped and not cast.
- Master cylinder out of adjustment.
- Plastic "doughnut" at the bottom of the gear stick is worn or missing.
- Plate in the gear selector mechanism is worn.
- Problem with the clutch or release bearing.
Again, the symptoms are that 1st is difficult to engage and reverse is impossible to engage with the engine running. Once moving engaging 2nd is very notchy, but the rest of the forward gears are pretty good. Downshifts require careful rev matching or else the gears will not engage. There are no strange noises at highway speeds. With the engine off it is easy to shift into any gear, and strangely with the engine on it is possible to get into reverse if the transfer case is shifted into neutral first, this could support the clutch drag theory since it disconnects the output shaft and removes load on the transmission.
I've driven the truck about 50 miles over the last few days and have to admit the diesel is pretty darn fun. But.... today I drove up a very steep hill and suddenly the truck started loosing power above 2k when under heavy load, it sounds like the turbo stops spooling and once I get off the gas for a second power comes back only to disappear again. The seems to be another common problem and could simply be that the hose between the wastegate and the injection pump is leaking, one more thing to look into. Arg.
So that's the update. We are still working on finding a house and without a garage the restoration process is slow.
- Matt
I've been reading a bunch of Rover forums and plan to look into the following possible causes:
- Slave cylinder pushrod is the wrong length. Since the transmission apparently worked fine previously this is unlikely.
- Worn clutch operating arm. These have a tendency to punch through at the pivot point on the 300tdi since the arm is stamped and not cast.
- Master cylinder out of adjustment.
- Plastic "doughnut" at the bottom of the gear stick is worn or missing.
- Plate in the gear selector mechanism is worn.
- Problem with the clutch or release bearing.
Again, the symptoms are that 1st is difficult to engage and reverse is impossible to engage with the engine running. Once moving engaging 2nd is very notchy, but the rest of the forward gears are pretty good. Downshifts require careful rev matching or else the gears will not engage. There are no strange noises at highway speeds. With the engine off it is easy to shift into any gear, and strangely with the engine on it is possible to get into reverse if the transfer case is shifted into neutral first, this could support the clutch drag theory since it disconnects the output shaft and removes load on the transmission.
I've driven the truck about 50 miles over the last few days and have to admit the diesel is pretty darn fun. But.... today I drove up a very steep hill and suddenly the truck started loosing power above 2k when under heavy load, it sounds like the turbo stops spooling and once I get off the gas for a second power comes back only to disappear again. The seems to be another common problem and could simply be that the hose between the wastegate and the injection pump is leaking, one more thing to look into. Arg.
So that's the update. We are still working on finding a house and without a garage the restoration process is slow.
- Matt