Day One...not that this is going to go fast, or anything

[Czechsix]

Congrats on the purchase, the truck looks great. I have been lurking around this site for almost two years now trying to learn as much as possible. I really like the overall size and "simplicity" of the Fuso. My wife and I are landing on building a camper as well, we have gone down the traditional pickup path but really like the view, overall length, maneuverability and forward visibility of the COE platform. I mentioned in another thread we are also considering a U500, BAE route but would prefer to avoid the size, weight and servicing issues, it would be cool but.....

Anyhow, I am subscribed and will be very interested in your assessment of the 4x4 performance. Based on your comments you arent looking for a rock crawling machine and neither are we. I am not sure If I have the experience to do a engine, transmission and transfer case replacement so it will be great to see where you land with the stock components.

I I may have missed it but do you know if they replaced the transmission in yours? In my discussions with one of the regional Fuso sales managers he indicated they went to a different clutch pack material on the newer ones so you may want to do a little research. The fellow I spoke with really understood the history and revisions made since the release of the platform.

Anyhow, congratulations and I am looking forward towards your build.

eric

Thanks, Eric

I'll definitely be playing about a bit with the platform before it gets the box on the back. I'm really curious to see how well it does, and I'll be doing in-cab GoPro footage. One of the first dirt road runs I'm going to do is a local road up a mountain - Nate Harrison Road, for those of you that have visited San Diego County. It's easy (usually), but there are some interesting sections. It's got various gradients to deal with, and various surfaces, so it should make for an interesting test bed. About the only real area that might cause issue is a spring that seeps across the road, creating a nice and muddy crossing. Which, depending on the season and how much traffic has gone through, sometimes does a very good job of trapping vehicles.

I don't know for sure if they have replaced the transmission. Empire Truck did pull some recall codes, and one of them seems to point towards replacement, but until I get in touch with someone with more experience, I can't tell. I'll crawl underneath and see if there are any build numbers on it, that should help.

That information on the different clutch compound is interesting too, I'll have to follow up on that. The one thing that kind of gets to me is the trans oil capacity...compared to other units I've used, this thing is tiny and low capacity. I already managed to trip one warning light by trying to crawl up a dirt slope.

Lots of pondering to do, and lots of ideas to steal, LOL.

 

[topofpalomar]

Czechsix,

Quick Road Report - No spring crossing on the Nate Harrison Grade. It was dry when I drove it in the Jeep two weeks ago.

If you come up in the next few days the road might be a little slick from the rain yesterday but it won't be much. County Roads has been doing a good job of keeping the route negotiable (it's one of the emergency escape routes off Palomar Mountain).

Should be a good trial run for you, though. I look forward to your report.

 

[Czechsix]

Czechsix,

Quick Road Report - No spring crossing on the Nate Harrison Grade. It was dry when I drove it in the Jeep two weeks ago.

If you come up in the next few days the road might be a little slick from the rain yesterday but it won't be much. County Roads has been doing a good job of keeping the route negotiable (it's one of the emergency escape routes off Palomar Mountain).

Should be a good trial run for you, though. I look forward to your report.

Aw hell, ok, my backup plan is Surprise Canyon...maybe some of the waterfalls are going a bit. :sombrero:

Thanks for the report! I'll be taking this on gradually harder trails, Harrison, then probably do Grapevine Canyon down into Anza Borrego, do some of the washes. Nothing technical but should keep developing some sense of capabilities. Maybe I'll take it out to the playground in Truckhaven, come to think of it.

I need to play around with the tire inflation pressure - definitely too high on the way back, but it sure rolled easy! 80psi unloaded is too much. But I don't have onboard air set up yet, and that's one of the things that'll be added. Until I get that going, I'm not really willing to get too salty with experimentation.

 

[EAB]

I really like the approach of incrementally sorting out how it goes, what works and what doesn't. You are already starting from a good place eg the parabolics and super singles. I can't remember if I saw it had shocks as well. As I mentioned I have only heard from one new Fuso owner ( Howard ) and he is happy with his as reported earlier. Over the last month or so I was contemplating if I should just get one and check it out but winter is coming here and I really don't have a place to store it plus I tore my bicep tendon 5 weeks ago so I won't be able to do much for a bit yet. So thanks for jumping in.

As as far as the clutch pack is concerned, the rep said the earlier ones ( I spoke to him this last spring ) clutch lining material wore prematurely and they were replacing them when it failed. I can't remeber what he said the symptoms were but I would look into it.

Couple of questions, what do you think of the parabolics and are you going to put any weight in the back?

 

[Czechsix]

Yep, gradual approach is best, but we have a good pool of experienced owners too that have put their trucks through the wringer. I'm good at stealing ideas.

Seeing how the stock trucks are set up, running the parabolics, at the least, was something I planned on from the beginning. Even though I still think these trucks aren't really rough terrain suitable, keeping tires in contact with terrain is a good idea. These springs seem to have good droop characteristics, and I'm more interested in droop than upward travel. Having the Timbren bump stops helps quite a bit, but I'm still curious how something like a good pneumatic stop would work. If I get a wild hair I might pursue that...then again I've got ten thousand other things to do.

I'll definitely check into that clutch issue. We had a bit of rain here last night, nothing enough to make even a puddle, but more than enough to make some slopes slick, so I did a test run on the same slope I used before, when it was dry. Previously, I dropped it into first gear, and tried crawling up the slope - which resulted in a trans oil warning light. Guess I was going too slow, and making the clutch slip, creating a high heat condition. So the truck flagged it, and I tried again, faster. That worked. Today, I tried going up that same slope in rear drive only, first gear again, but faster. We have a very slick clay here, and the rear tires loaded up rapidly, and even with spinning, couldn't gain enough traction. Put it into four wheel drive, took another run, and no drama, went right up and over. Good ground contact, but this truck will take some getting used to. It acts quite a bit different than my overpowered Suburban, the old 'mogs, etc. Not necessarily worse...just takes different driving technique.

So far, I think the parabolics are great. I'm really curious as to how the coils act, but I'll probably never find out (unless that wild hair thing turns up again).

As to weight - yes! It needs weight, and I'm thinking of running a couple of tons of rock, or concrete block. I think this suspension will really shine with a decent load on it to make it work.

One question I have is how well the suspension will work with washboard - will the shocks hold up, or am I going to have to eventually go to a shock with external reservoirs? Time will tell.

 

[EAB]

If and when you have a chance, can you measure the height to the top of chassis rail with the parabolics and 19.5 singles?

On another note, I was reading a review this evening that spoke to the wet clutch and how it allows the transmission to slip. So I guess they have tried a cole of different lining materials. Here's the link to the article.....

http://www.tradetrucks.com.au/truck-reviews/1208/mitubishi-fuso-canter-715-truck-review/

This got me thinking does the transmission have a way to modulate clutch pressure that allows the clutches to slip. Or is the desired slip determined by the characteristics of the clutch material. If it's the later,would it be set to slip at the haul capacity/gvwr of the vehicle at a specific inclination. I would imagine this is documented somewhere.

Anyone sounds like like you are sorting things out.

 

[dlh62c]

I'll definitely be playing about a bit with the platform before it gets the box on the back.

If you haven't yet, you need to download the 2012 Fuso Canter Body Builders Guide, there's 300 plus pages of useful information there.

 

[Czechsix]

EAB - sure, not a problem for the measurements.

Interesting article. One thing I really would like to know is if Mitsubishi did any kind of publication on gradient ability in various gears/speeds. From looking at the trans, it uses fluid pressure to modulate the clutch packs. I'm sure that the clutch material has something to do with it too. Another thing I'd like to see is if there is a full lockup at "X" rpm and what that is. For instance - hill climbing - is there a speed that you don't want to go under?

dlh - yep, already got it downloaded and printed out, and it's a handy reference.

 

[Czechsix]

To top of frame rail: 40.5"

Curb weight, full tank of fuel, no driver - 8280#

Oh, and does anyone know if there's only one VIN location on these trucks? Any secondary VIN location? It's going to take over a month to get CHP to check out and issue a variance for the lack of the secondary VIN....would be much nicer if there was a second VIN hiding in a not so obvious area. Checked the whole cab, engine, frame....nothing.

 

[EAB]

Thanks for the measurement. I went through the builders manual and came up with a rear frame height of 32.7 inches at 12,000lbs substituting the stock wheels and tires with the Toyo M608z 285 70R 19.5 as follows:

Hr = hr + Rr Hr is the height of the frame at the rear, hr is the distance from the frame tot he center of the rear wheel and Rr is the tire radius.

So at 12000lb Hr = 15.25 in + 17.7 in = 32.95 approximately this does not take into account a reduction of the tire radius at load nor anything else I don't understand.

The reason I asked for the height is i didn't understand the effects that the parabolic springs have on the height but it would appear it is significant. Once you have some weight on it I would be interested in the difference although I am not really worried about the difference between 33 and 40 inches.

I too would like to understand some of the questions you have regarding the transmission. When you were climbing the steep hill did it just stop making forward progress but the engine was not stalled? I assume it reaches a point were it starts drifting backwards as the clutch slips?

So if you assume a 40" frame height + 78" headroom ( is this enough ) + 6" for floor and ceiling thickness + 4- 6" for mounting ( is this realistic ?) = 130" total height.

 

[Czechsix]

I too would like to understand some of the questions you have regarding the transmission. When you were climbing the steep hill did it just stop making forward progress but the engine was not stalled? I assume it reaches a point were it starts drifting backwards as the clutch slips?

So if you assume a 40" frame height + 78" headroom ( is this enough ) + 6" for floor and ceiling thickness + 4- 6" for mounting ( is this realistic ?) = 130" total height.

Regarding the slope - this slope is approximately 12 meters long, and I'll get the actual angle tomorrow or day after. I was curious as to how well the truck crawled under load. If you run an automatic trans, they'll slip and gradually crawl, producing heat...that they deal with. This Duonic trans seems to make lots more heat (which makes sense, since it's multiple clutches in oil), and that's what seems to trigger the trans warning. Basically the truck crawled slowly, until the clutch pack heated, threw a code, and the engine derated itself and the truck rolled backwards until braking was applied. Which amounts to operator error.

Host camper lists their expedition model, on a Fuso, at 10' 2"....so I'd say you're right in the ballpark.

 

[Howard70]

Toro Peak!

Hello Czechsix:

I hadn't read through your thread until this evening. It's great to hear of another Duonic-equipped-Fuso FG owner. We've had ours since May (it's one of the LHD EarthCruisers) and have gradually figured out some of the driving issues you've covered. While we live in New Mexico we have family in Lakeside (east of San Diego) and had our truck out there this August. If you're looking for good roads to explore with the FG you might consider Toro Peak. We spent a night up there in August to escape the heat after driving across the Mohave. It had been about 40 years since we were last up there and I don't think it's changed much. We had no trouble with the road (the roughest sections are within the first 5 miles), yet it was a fun drive.

It is a long enough trip from San Diego that you might think of an overnight, but the views are incredible.

Good luck with your new truck. We'll probably be in your area sometime in late December / early January and perhaps we could get together for a drive or an overnight.

Howard

 

[Czechsix]

Hi Howard - yep, Toro Peak is a great idea. I might even join the local club that heads out there in winter, to do a snow run and see how far they can go. I haven't been up there in years. Another area I might play around in is Cleveland National Forest, up above Lake Elsinore. When you do get into this area, absolutely I'd be up for a drive or more. Sometime after the first of the year (probably towards the end of January), we'll be taking the truck up to Bend to settle on either EC or Host...and then pick up close to summer.

But in the meantime I'll be doing mods and figuring out how the truck acts.

 

[Czechsix]

So the current entertainment is the DPF/DEF system.

The instrument cluster gauge always reads full, no matter what the level is. This is either a sender issue, or (according to a Fuso service center) a calibration issue that is a common problem. The other issue is that when the DEF tanks gets to the half full point, I get a non-critical EngSys and DEF warning light. After filling the DEF tank to the top level and driving the truck at freeway speed for 5.5 miles, it self corrected. I'm thinking I might have to pull the sender/pickup/heater unit from the tank and see what's going on with it.

I've also started working with Aluminess on a custom front winch bumper setup, probably with full cab brush protection, plus some other ideas that I've been kicking around for years. It'll take six weeks to a couple of months, but should add some helpful features.

 

[Overland Hadley]

:lurk: