DC-DC battery charger under hood?

[DiploStrat]

Exactly.

A dedicated temp sensor wire direct to the bank is basic equipment for a proper VR, in fact any high-end charge source designed for charging deep-cycling banks. Plus sensors at the alt diodes.

Not only for regulating overtemp conditions, but adjusting compensation voltage as needed in normal operation.

Can't speak to Ford or RAM, but Chevrolet includes starter battery temperature sensing in their regulation system. The challenge for most of us is that our starter batteries are hotter than the camper batteries. My old Mercedes truck does not measure battery temperature. (But then it barely has any wires at all!)

I can't prove it, but I suspect that Chevrolet measures alternator temp as well, if only to throttle back in the case of overheat. They don't want warranty replacements.

 

[DiploStrat]

Real trucks are designed to fit ancillary stuff to its motor. Folks should quit using electro-bandaids converting grocery getter SUVs to become ’Expo Trucks.

These folks will help you jam an extra alternator or two on your truck. https://www.nationsstarteralternator.com

 

[Joe917]

The Stirling BtoB chargers have temp sensors at the alternator and battery.(although our 200amp 24volt alternator probably hardly feels the load!)

 

[john61ct]

They don't want warranty replacements.

Putting a depleted large high-CAR bank on the alt is what would void the warranty.

The usual starter+propulsion requirements are not a problem.

 

[restorationrides]

So, I have since done some research herein and I really don't find that there's much information at the level I'm talking about.

One example would be the detailed inner workings of an alternator and its respective voltage regulator. How does it generate electricity and tailor it to the application requirements.

What kind of sensors are integrated depending on the manufacturer. How can we tailor a particular alternator's capabilities to fit at as tem requirements...?

More of a detailed introspection into the components of a charging system, sort of independent of a particular application...

Regards,
RestorationRides

Sent from my REVVLPLUS C3701A using Tapatalk

 

[restorationrides]

On a lark, I just went to the website and tried to find my biggest truck's application. They have a number of alternators listed up to 320 amps! Sounds great on paper but the app says it'll fit everything from a Suburban down to a little SSR. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think SSR's came with 8.1 liter gas motors as an option...

RR

Sent from my REVVLPLUS C3701A using Tapatalk

 

[john61ct]

Worth its own thread.

Quoted amps is only theoretical max, IRL continuous output may be half, and even then only when kept cool.

Stock VRs rarely work at all well for deep cycle banks, converting to external unit like Balmar MC-614 well worth it **if** alternator is a major charge source.

But given modern vehicle design, a Sterling BB DCDC charger is usually a better investment.

And you're right, actually producing big amps requires horses.

My friend bought a 570A @24V unit tried to run it off a 15HP engine. Soon as the loads came online the whole setup stalled like sticking a crowbar in the spokes. High torque plus soft start VR, could maybe do it with double that, 30HP?

Need very solid multi-vee pulleys too, stock single vee belts start breaking down past 60-80A.

 

[DaveInDenver]

And you're right, actually producing big amps requires horses.

My friend bought a 570A @24V unit tried to run it off a 15HP engine. Soon as the loads came online the whole setup stalled like sticking a crowbar in the spokes. High torque plus soft start VR, could maybe do it with double that, 30HP?

In a vehicle engine application that alternators this large just simply can't be used because eventually the belt will start slipping. You have to run multiple belts, chain and/or run things so tight you eat up bearings from the side load beyond a certain point. Something that large (570 A) surely was shaft driven and a 15 HP could never even produce enough power to drive it close to full output. For ~14kW a genset I'd think you will probably be using at least a 25 HP engine.

 

[CampStewart]

Chevy SSR as well as full size trucks all came with LS style engines which all have the same front accessory drives

 

[restorationrides]

And you're right, actually producing big amps requires horses.

My friend bought a 570A @24V unit tried to run it off a 15HP engine. Soon as the loads came online the whole setup stalled like sticking a crowbar in the spokes. High torque plus soft start VR, could maybe do it with double that, 30HP?

In a vehicle engine application that alternators this large just simply can't be used because eventually the belt will start slipping. You have to run multiple belts, chain and/or run things so tight you eat up bearings from the side load beyond a certain point. Something that large (570 A) surely was shaft driven and a 15 HP could never even produce enough power to drive it close to full output. For ~14kW a genset I'd think you will probably be using at least a 25 HP engine.

Okay, let's run the calculations.

570 amps at 24 volts equals 13,680 watts

1 horsepower is approximately 760 Watts.

Therefore...

13,680 watts divided by 760 watts/horsepower equals approx. 18 HP. (Theoretically speaking)

Note: Power factor correction is likely 80 percent so HP required is probably closer to 23 HP....

Sent from my REVVLPLUS C3701A using Tapatalk

 

[DaveInDenver]

Okay, let's run the calculations.

Someone should.

570 amps at 24 volts equals 13,680 watts

For ~14kW a genset I'd think you will probably be using at least a 25 HP engine.

I figured a 570 A alternator was probably a Neihoff N1609 or something similar.

http://www.militarysystems-tech.com/files/militarysystems/supplier_docs/N1606-Brochure.pdf

Therefore at 3,500 RPM it'll produce about 500 A at 28 V, e.g. 14,000 watts divided by 746 HP/watt = 18.8 HP, so at an actual efficiency of 0.78 you get 18.8 HP/.78 = 24.1 HP input needed. The 3,500 RPM was picked because it's a realistic RPM for an engine despite that the 570 A isn't actually produced until you exceed 7,500 RPM.

At full rated output of 570 A @ 28 V (15,960 watts or 21.4 HP) you'd need an engine capable of 30.1 HP @ 8,000 RPM, pretty much just as john suggested and basically impractical due to RPMs required.

Note: Power factor correction is likely 80 percent so HP required is probably closer to 23 HP....

Power factor is a question on the load side. That's how a 20 HP/15 kW generator becomes 18.75 kVA @ 0.8 pf. It's the same real work, the apparent power differs with the voltage and current out of phase. Since there was no mention of an inverter or AC power by john this is aside a point that is already aside the point (does that make this an apparent thread?). Power factor is important when sizing AC generators to know the engine's actual capability since it only knows how to develop real power at the shaft. This also why the utility puts power factor correction on your line if your load is out of phase. They're only capable of billing you for real power and not getting paid for the reactive power they had to generate to drive your shop full of motors. So they hang a capacitor bank on your line to make sure they aren't short changed.

 

[john61ct]

Alt rpm does not need to equal engine rpm.

And some engines are fine at 6000+rpm.

Not that one should do so for extended periods.

But with an LFP bank, one hour's runtime could take care of many days' electrical needs.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Just had in mind the Kawasaki FD671 gasoline engine I have, which produces 20.5 HP @ 3,600 RPM. Geez, I was agreeing with you and can't even escape correction. I figured they sometimes have gearing since I highly doubt a diesel is going to want to run 1:1 at high RPM, but don't know what the ratios might be. Doesn't change the power needed, though, does it?

 

[restorationrides]

Okay, let's run the calculations.

Someone should.

570 amps at 24 volts equals 13,680 watts

For ~14kW a genset I'd think you will probably be using at least a 25 HP engine.

I figured a 570 A alternator was probably a Neihoff N1609 or something similar.

http://www.militarysystems-tech.com/files/militarysystems/supplier_docs/N1606-Brochure.pdf

Therefore at 3,500 RPM it'll produce about 500 A at 28 V, e.g. 14,000 watts divided by 746 HP/watt = 18.8 HP, so at an actual efficiency of 0.78 you get 18.8 HP/.78 = 24.1 HP input needed. The 3,500 RPM was picked because it's a realistic RPM for an engine despite that the 570 A isn't actually produced until you exceed 7,500 RPM.

At full rated output of 570 A @ 28 V (15,960 watts or 21.4 HP) you'd need an engine capable of 30.1 HP @ 8,000 RPM, pretty much just as john suggested and basically impractical due to RPMs required.

Note: Power factor correction is likely 80 percent so HP required is probably closer to 23 HP....

Power factor is a question on the load side. That's how a 20 HP/15 kW generator becomes 18.75 kVA @ 0.8 pf. It's the same real work, the apparent power differs with the voltage and current out of phase. Since there was no mention of an inverter or AC power by john this is aside a point that is already aside the point (does that make this an apparent thread?). Power factor is important when sizing AC generators to know the engine's actual capability since it only knows how to develop real power at the shaft. This also why the utility puts power factor correction on your line if your load is out of phase. They're only capable of billing you for real power and not getting paid for the reactive power they had to generate to drive your shop full of motors. So they hang a capacitor bank on your line to make sure they aren't short changed.

The alternator IS an AC current generating device. It is simply rectified to create a DC supply. But more importantly, the point here is that you're not going to get 100% of all of the input out of any of these power generating devices. And another poster came up with close to the same efficiency factor is me (about 80%). I think we can consider that close enough...

Okay, let's run the calculations.

Someone should.

570 amps at 24 volts equals 13,680 watts

For ~14kW a genset I'd think you will probably be using at least a 25 HP engine.

I figured a 570 A alternator was probably a Neihoff N1609 or something similar.

http://www.militarysystems-tech.com/files/militarysystems/supplier_docs/N1606-Brochure.pdf

Therefore at 3,500 RPM it'll produce about 500 A at 28 V, e.g. 14,000 watts divided by 746 HP/watt = 18.8 HP, so at an actual efficiency of 0.78 you get 18.8 HP/.78 = 24.1 HP input needed. The 3,500 RPM was picked because it's a realistic RPM for an engine despite that the 570 A isn't actually produced until you exceed 7,500 RPM.

At full rated output of 570 A @ 28 V (15,960 watts or 21.4 HP) you'd need an engine capable of 30.1 HP @ 8,000 RPM, pretty much just as john suggested and basically impractical due to RPMs required.

Note: Power factor correction is likely 80 percent so HP required is probably closer to 23 HP....

Power factor is a question on the load side. That's how a 20 HP/15 kW generator becomes 18.75 kVA @ 0.8 pf. It's the same real work, the apparent power differs with the voltage and current out of phase. Since there was no mention of an inverter or AC power by john this is aside a point that is already aside the point (does that make this an apparent thread?). Power factor is important when sizing AC generators to know the engine's actual capability since it only knows how to develop real power at the shaft. This also why the utility puts power factor correction on your line if your load is out of phase. They're only capable of billing you for real power and not getting paid for the reactive power they had to generate to drive your shop full of motors. So they hang a capacitor bank on your line to make sure they aren't short changed.

Sent from my REVVLPLUS C3701A using Tapatalk

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

Came across this thread while searching for DCDC info...

What a comedy show high school level pissing match