DCDC charger and wire size?

cr500taco

Adventurer
I'm going to add a 100ah lithium battery and install it in the bed of my 2011 Tundra Rock Warrior that has the tow package. I'm going to get a Renogy MPPT controller with a DC to DC charger for it. What size charger do you recommend and what size wire should I run?
Right now, the second battery will just power my fridge, mainly and also, charging some devices via USB. I don't know what else in the future. But, I just want to be prepared as I figure out my setup. I don't want to worry about redoing it to upgrade. I don't see myself running anything off of an inverter.
 
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rruff

Explorer
Probably 20A unless you have a high output alternator, then look up a DC wire size chart and buy pure copper wiring, or if it's CCA adjust accordingly.

BTW, MPPT is for solar panels only. I assume you are talking about dual input?
 

SlowCarFast

Member
Note: it's kind of complicated, and no one can give you an optimized answer without knowing all the details of your setup and intended use.

If you want a one size fits most answer: 50A charger (lots of charging capacity, not much more money than smaller unit), cable should be sized based on calculator/chart which accounts for current and cable length, fuse appropriately (your fuse arrangement is tied to your cable size/length, make sure you're clear on this relationship, it's part of what keeps you from burning down your rig, you want a fuse to blow before you cable melts or starts burning things). Make sure all your wiring at every point in your system has cabling sized and fused accordingly. Current and cable length defines cable gauge ➡️ cable gauge drives fuse size.

The more complicated/optimized version involves more thought and some learning on your part. Perform an energy audit, figure out what devices you're running (and may run in the future). What's their voltage, current, and average runtime. Use this to estimate your average power draw over 24 hrs. Then consider your charging scenario: solar or no? What sort of solar charging conditions are typical? Do you drive a lot of hours most days of a trip? Or are you more stationary? Based on your average charging time for that same 24 hours, you can estimate what sort of DC-DC charge capability you need when on the road to offset usage. What's your typical climate, as that can impact battery capacity. How much reserve capacity are you comfortable with? All of this can go into calculating your energy use and charging needs.

The blue sea website has some good resources on figuring some of this stuff out (https://www.bluesea.com/support/articles). I've built systems in a couple vehicles and put the work into designing things the way I want them and invested in some basic tools to ensure clean safe installs. It's worked well so far!
 

SlowCarFast

Member
Weird, I would have sworn that Renogy used to recommend no more than 20A for a 100A alternator, but now up to 1/2 the alternator capacity seems to be recommended...
With my renogy unit you can also cap the DC-DC charging rate at whatever you want in the settings, giving you the flexibility to adjust downward based on your comfort level with current alternator and other loads and future proof if you choose to go to larger alternator or whatever.

If I'm driving a lot I usually cap it at a lower charge rate, but it's nice knowing I can crank it up for a quicker charge if I'm in a bind (with the possible downside of some extra strain on the alternator).
 

Vicdog

New member
Watch maximum open circuit voltage for your solar panels. Renogy 30 amp is now 30 volts max. I have the dual input mppt and it’s great for my 100 amp hr.
voltage drop is real at 12 volts so bigger wire better. #8 min. I added the Bluetooth module so I could adjust the charging rate, 10, 20, or 30 amps.
I have a smart alternator so I ran an ignition wire. it Works without it most of the time but for full output, you need it.
one more point, the renogy will divide the alternator and solar input in half if both are present. It may use solar fully but I only have a 100 watt panel
 

cr500taco

Adventurer
Probably 20A unless you have a high output alternator, then look up a DC wire size chart and buy pure copper wiring, or if it's CCA adjust accordingly.

BTW, MPPT is for solar panels only. I assume you are talking about dual input?
Yes, a MPPT with DC to DC charging. I will be adding a portable solar panel, as well.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk
 

MR E30

Well-known member
There are good answers in this thread already, let me add a real life example (my setup) to help tie the info together:

I run a Renogy 50A Charge Controller for my DC-DC and MPPT needs. I would not recommend anything smaller. Barely more expensive, and can simply charge faster. My 3rd gen Tacoma has no problem delivering 50A to my house batteries, even when idling. My batteries can handle 50A each, so the charge controller can't 'overcharge' them. I have (3) 100ah LifePO4 batteries.

Charge Controller is located in camper, alternator in the front of the truck. Think of things in loops. The DC-DC charging loop is from my starter battery, to the charge controller, through it, to my battery bank, through that, and then grounded down to the frame.

This loop has a maximum amperage of 50A. It is roughly 8 feet long. A wire sizing chart online will tell you that this loop requires 4AWG wiring. So that entire loop is 4AWG, both positive and negative wires.

I have a fuse for this circuit, installed right at the battery (closest to the source is best), and it is sized at 1.25x the maximum current. So 50A x 1.25 yields 62.5A. I used a 60A fuse since they don't make a 62.5A as far as I am aware.

That is that single loop. Time to leave it behind and think of the next loop as an independent thing. I have another loop, my batteries through my inverter loop. This loop is the linked batteries (in parallel) through the circuit breaker, then through the pos bus bar, to the inverter, out of the inverter, to the neg bus bar, and back down to the batteries.

This loop requires different sized wiring, since the loads are different. I have a 3kw inverter used to power a 1,800w induction cooktop. To get amps you divide wattage by volts. So 1800w/13.3v gives me ~135A flowing through these wires. I think I used 12v in this calculation, just to be safe, as there is a substantial voltage drop when this large of a load is applied. The wire sizing chart tells me I need (1) 2/0 wire, or (2) 4AWG wires. Do the same calculation to size the fuse/circuit breaker, again installing it as close as possible to the source.

You size your wiring based off of your anticipated max amperage, not the maximum discharge of your batteries (which is 300A in my case). You could do this to completely bulletproof your setup, but this does not appear to be common. My cooktop is, by far, my most power hungry device, so I felt comfortable building out my system with it as the limit.

Smaller loops, like from the DC fuse block to the interior LED lights, use far less amps, so they are something like 22awg wire. Fridge wiring gets it own size based on its max draw. Fuse ratings (blade fuses in the DC fuse block) are determined again by 1.25x max draw. Don't oversize fuses either! Or else the wiring again becomes the weak point, and bad times could be ahead.

Anyways, hope all that makes sense. If not, let me know and I'll share some more.
 

rruff

Explorer
My 3rd gen Tacoma has no problem delivering 50A to my house batteries, even when idling.
I'm curious about wearing out the alternators. On my Tundra they aren't really made to be replaced; it's ~$1200 job.

I can understand how nice it is to have engine charging, though.
 

MR E30

Well-known member
I'm curious about wearing out the alternators. On my Tundra they aren't really made to be replaced; it's ~$1200 job.

I can understand how nice it is to have engine charging, though.

Definitely something to think about.

I bet the Tacoma would be similarly priced to have someone do it, but it's in a semi-convenient location within the engine bay, so I could swap one out myself if I had to.

I have been tracking temperature and load info, as I am on the fence about replacing my slowly failing SLA starter battery with a Dakota Lithium starter battery.

In the ~1.6 years my wife and i have been living in our Tacoma, solar has provided us with 99+% of our energy needs. 400w of rigid panels on the roof of the camper gives me the 25A that the charge controller is designed to handle pretty much throughout the entire day.

In all of that time I have idled the truck for maybe 15 hours in total to recharge the battery, and the majority of that was when we had just 100ah of house batteries.

I have been tracking engine bay, battery, and alternator temps with Govee temp sensors for about 9 months now.

I cannot draw a correlation between the alternator supplying 25A (it only gives 50A when there is absolutely zero solar coming in. Even .1 amps from the panels cuts the DC input down to 25A) and it not providing any current (batteries are full) in regards to its temperature. I have spreadsheet tracking various bits of info, and ambient air temp is the main driver of these monitored temperatures.

Steep, long grades on the highway spike temps throughout the entire engine bay, but when idling at camp I always have my hood open (mouse problems, chewed through my knock sensor wiring harness outside of Oracle AZ, so hood spends more time open than closed), and that means the engine bay air temp is ambient plus 5 maybe, battery temp is ambient plus 2 or 3, and alternator is around 110. Steep, long grades on the freeway have the alternator temps climb to ~150 for perspective. Roughly 100 for engine bay temps, at ambient temps of ~80 for additional perspective.

I'll keep an eye on it. Stereo guys have their stock alternators pushing 100+ amps to their setups semi-regularly as well. No info on if their alternators are dying prematurely though.
 

rruff

Explorer
I bet the Tacoma would be similarly priced to have someone do it, but it's in a semi-convenient location within the engine bay, so I could swap one out myself if I had to.
I'm used to vehicles that are super easy... like 5 minutes in the parking lot. So I was shocked to discover how unfriendly the Tundras are. People say to allow 2 days for DIY... and often that they'd pony up the $1,200 rather than do it again...

That sucks about the mice/rats! They seem to like Toyota wiring...
 

Kevinm

New member
There are good answers in this thread already, let me add a real life example (my setup) to help tie the info together:

I run a Renogy 50A Charge Controller for my DC-DC and MPPT needs. I would not recommend anything smaller. Barely more expensive, and can simply charge faster. My 3rd gen Tacoma has no problem delivering 50A to my house batteries, even when idling. My batteries can handle 50A each, so the charge controller can't 'overcharge' them. I have (3) 100ah LifePO4 batteries.

Charge Controller is located in camper, alternator in the front of the truck. Think of things in loops. The DC-DC charging loop is from my starter battery, to the charge controller, through it, to my battery bank, through that, and then grounded down to the frame.

This loop has a maximum amperage of 50A. It is roughly 8 feet long. A wire sizing chart online will tell you that this loop requires 4AWG wiring. So that entire loop is 4AWG, both positive and negative wires.

I have a fuse for this circuit, installed right at the battery (closest to the source is best), and it is sized at 1.25x the maximum current. So 50A x 1.25 yields 62.5A. I used a 60A fuse since they don't make a 62.5A as far as I am aware.

That is that single loop. Time to leave it behind and think of the next loop as an independent thing. I have another loop, my batteries through my inverter loop. This loop is the linked batteries (in parallel) through the circuit breaker, then through the pos bus bar, to the inverter, out of the inverter, to the neg bus bar, and back down to the batteries.

This loop requires different sized wiring, since the loads are different. I have a 3kw inverter used to power a 1,800w induction cooktop. To get amps you divide wattage by volts. So 1800w/13.3v gives me ~135A flowing through these wires. I think I used 12v in this calculation, just to be safe, as there is a substantial voltage drop when this large of a load is applied. The wire sizing chart tells me I need (1) 2/0 wire, or (2) 4AWG wires. Do the same calculation to size the fuse/circuit breaker, again installing it as close as possible to the source.

You size your wiring based off of your anticipated max amperage, not the maximum discharge of your batteries (which is 300A in my case). You could do this to completely bulletproof your setup, but this does not appear to be common. My cooktop is, by far, my most power hungry device, so I felt comfortable building out my system with it as the limit.

Smaller loops, like from the DC fuse block to the interior LED lights, use far less amps, so they are something like 22awg wire. Fridge wiring gets it own size based on its max draw. Fuse ratings (blade fuses in the DC fuse block) are determined again by 1.25x max draw. Don't oversize fuses either! Or else the wiring again becomes the weak point, and bad times could be ahead.

Anyways, hope all that makes sense. If not, let me know and I'll share some more.
Worth noting that if you were to run 2 4gauge wires instead of 1 2/0 gauge that the 2 wires should be fused individually. You don’t want 2 wires fused together and running a single fuse you would run for 2/0
 

ascendit

Active member
I'm going to add a 100ah lithium battery and install it in the bed of my 2011 Tundra Rock Warrior that has the tow package. I'm going to get a Renogy MPPT controller with a DC to DC charger for it. What size charger do you recommend and what size wire should I run?
Right now, the second battery will just power my fridge, mainly and also, charging some devices via USB. I don't know what else in the future. But, I just want to be prepared as I figure out my setup. I don't want to worry about redoing it to upgrade. I don't see myself running anything off of an inverter.
 

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
I have a fuse for this circuit, installed right at the battery (closest to the source is best), and it is sized at 1.25x the maximum current. So 50A x 1.25 yields 62.5A. I used a 60A fuse since they don't make a 62.5A as far as I am aware.
This piece of advice needs to be clarified. If you're fusing for a 50A circuit you use a 50A. Fuses are sized based on the current they will hold indefinitely. They will open at some current higher than their rating, which is going to be based on a time-current curve. So the higher above their holding current the faster it will open.

Let's use an example, the fairly common MRBF that Eaton/Bussman offer. If you used their 60A this is the time-current curve for it.

Screenshot 2025-05-21 at 13.39.23.png

Screenshot 2025-05-21 at 13.40.08.png

You'll see at 100% (60A) it approaches asymptotically to the point they don't even give a data point. In the data sheet they say it will hold 100% for greater than 100 hours.

It will only start to reliably open at around 135% of rated value, which is their lowest data point. This will take no more than 900 seconds but could be less. They can't say for sure exactly so it's given as a maximum in the specs, although their chart indicates the range might be from 3 second to 2000 seconds.

Their next data point is 200% of rated value. A 60A MRBF will open at 120 amps in no more than 60 seconds. That's still pretty long, enough that you need to make sure your device or wire can handle it. Here again the chart indicates it could be as quick as 0.2 seconds. At 60 seconds you might need to think about insulation material depending on heating of the wire at 60 seconds. By that I mean you might want to use 125°C EPDM rather than 75°C PVC.

The next data point is 350%. Here they can say a bit more precisely that it will open between 0.1 min to 1 second max. That's 210 amps for a 60A MRBF. This is usually sufficient to prevent wire melting through insulation but is a lot of current from a device or load perspective.

The highest data point they give is 600%, where they state it will open in less than 0.2 seconds.

Now all that said, there are reasons you may have selected to derate, e.g. using 125% of the expected 50A circuit current. One is due to elevated ambient temperatures you find under the hood. Fuses are typically rated for an environment of 25°C but 40°C is pretty typically used for a baseline under hood or on the chassis. That's part of the underlying reason for the range of opening times, but Eaton doesn't give temperature derating guidance to my knowledge for MRBF but for other types 25% is IMO excessive for 40°C. Some require no adjustment at this temperature, some might be 5% or 10%.

When a fuse (or circuit breaker, which have similar trip characteristics) does give this it'll look like this. This being for an Eaton Series 22X ATC shaped circuit breaker. You have to potentially adjust over current protection in application that are exceptionally warmer or colder than what we know as normal ranges. It should be made clear that a fuse will operate over a very wide range, perhaps -40°C to +85°C, but what the designer needs to verify is what value to select to achieve the opening current desired. So a 60A in this example will open at +85°C but it might occur at 30 amps almost instanteously. Vice versa it will also open at -40°C but in that case it could be at 90A after an hour.

Screenshot 2025-05-21 at 14.03.40.png

I don't mean to second guess your 125% value but you may need to explain why you chose this. Normally inrush may require it (but this is typically implicit in the fuse time-current, e.g. an exceptionally harsh 350% in-rush might last long enough to blow it) or complex current as you might find on abnormally inductive AC loads.

In some cases you may have to derate down in value, too (e.g. use a 40A in a 50A since a fuse will only open with real current, not complex). You may see in your example going down 25% to get the fuse opening to nearly immediate at 50A but using a 40A (or nearest) to achieve that.

I have a Victron 18A DC-DC and don't find that either of those cases are severe enough to justify a 25% derating but that's only a sample of one example. Not all DC-DC chargers, or indeed any 12V load or device, necessarily implements in-rush protection and could see large turn on current if they have a lot of capacitance or inductance that may require balancing ratings between sufficient protection while avoiding nuisance tripping (e.g. the fuse blows randomly when you power up).

The main thing I would note, though, is you shouldn't be using the DC-DC rating to size fuses. You would use the wire branch size. If you're using 8 AWG wire then you fuse for that regardless of the load you hang on it. So your first design choice is to pick a wire size you need based on load current. Then you pick the source-side fuse size for that wire. You can use a smaller value if you wish, but the fuse indicated for wire size is absolute maximum, of course subject to temperature adjustment if you find it necessary.

The device itself should have it's own fuses required for protecting it. You can put a 50A DC-DC on a 1/0 AWG feeder protected with a 120A fuses. That doesn't imply the DC-DC will see 120A. If the device does need external fuses on it's supply (or output potentially, too) then you should put those at the input of the device, not the source end of the branch. The manufacturer will probably suggest a specific brand, type and value.
 
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