Destination Unknown - a 1997 F350 build

[jswift716]

I've heard great things about por15 until it cracks, then it flakes off in sheets according to all the different people I've talked to that used it. Me, I always clean as much rust as I can then spray 2 coats of rustoleum rust reformer then spray/or roll bedliner on. I did the unibody, inner fenders, trans tunnel, interior and exterior of the Last Cherokee I built and there's still no rust 2 years later. The guy I sold it to just posted it for sale last week that's the only reason I know

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[Chorky]

I've heard great things about por15 until it cracks, then it flakes off in sheets according to all the different people I've talked to that used it.

Yeah the cracking is exactly what I was worrying about.... It would make the whole process just pointless and even more difficult to fix since that stuff is so thick. Jeeps, not a problem, but these big trucks flex a lot for it to seem like it would last longer than a winter - especially in places with high temperature variations.


The rustolium is a good idea and something Ive considered recently. What about eastwoods rubberized encapsulator compound? Any experiences with that? It's advertised as highly flexible... but you know how advertising is.

 

[Chorky]

So I just received 4 different eastwood products to test out. 3 of them are currently drying as a test to see how I like them. So far the standard encapsulator seems like just a paint, while the HD version is a little more substantial, and the rubberized version is also more substantial but does appear to be much more flexible and pliable. We shall see after a few different test though.


Oh, and there's these...

 

[Chorky]

Well….It’s done – part one at least. It took a while, and there were a couple mishaps, but the engine (crossing my fingers) is done for now. Here is a final engine list

Engine pulled for complete re-seal – everything minus head gaskets (comp pressures were within spec, and bearings were good
Glow plugs w/ gasket and wiring
HD glow plug relay
Aliant power stage 1 injectors
New oil dipstick bracket
Motor mounts
New front cover and low pressure oil gears
Adrenaline HPOP
Oil – specified amsoil
Batteries – Odyssey AGM’s
Cleaned and painted engine
Cleaned and painted engine bay, battery trays, and frame
New water pump and t-stat – coolant switched out with ES Complete
Aluminum radiator
Degas tank
All cooling system hoses
Y-pipes
New fuel pump
New fuel heater element – and of course fuel filter
New MAP sensor
IPR valve harness
ICP sensor
Turbo inlet hoses
Trans service/flush
Trans cooler (E40D)
Diamond eye turbo back exhaust w/3” DP to 4” outlet(somehow the cat went missing :-O )
PCM reflash
KAM cleared
Gauges – voltmeter, boost, Pyro, water temp, oil temp, trans temp, fuel pressure, oil pressure, HPOP pressure

I’ve had the truck up and running for about a week now. It runs and pulls strong (though no chance to have a true load yet). Idles grate, good fuel mileage (15-18), MUCH quieter than before with half the exhaust broken and the Y-pipes not even connected… It truly is a new truck!!! And for half the cost of a brand new rig – which I would never get anyway.

I also installed some LED headlights (yep I know, and theyre probably not legal, but with todays new vehicle headlights I need to see too….) and reverse lights, along with a LMC Truck headlight harness to save the switch from burning up and causing a fire – sometimes I wonder about those engineers. Boy what a difference these lights make!!!!

Next up, frame and suspension!


Pics to come when I can get them….

 

[Seabass]

You're making me jealous. I wish I had the time to do exactly what you did to your engine. Mine's pretty clean and dry- but I run Mobile One full synthetic turbo diesel oil. If there's even a chance for oil to escape- synthetic will. At least that's been my experience. I have a very minor leak around the drain plug on the pan, and the dip stick tube leaks a bit at the pan. I shouldn't fuss. My old truck is in good shape. But for you, the over all- peace of mind you now have knowing that you've addressed most of the major short comings and potential problems of these trucks must be nice. However-I'm ahead of you on the suspension and frame part though! My new front suspension is especially nice. I got some money in it now- but worth every penny. And the multiple layers of brushes on black rustoleum paint are holding up well on my frame. I'm definitely looking forward to watching your progress. Great work so far.

 

[Chorky]

Thank you for the kind words seabass! Its tough spending so much cash straight up, but like you said the peace of mind is way worth it. Starting this summer I will rely 100% on this truck for work, play, and moving my home (trailer). Without it I could possibly have to forfeit a great job. So worth it. Plus, all said and done it will still be cheaper than a brand new rig, and with all the goodies. Its interesting you mention the oil. I'm running a full synthetic and did notice a jump in leakage as compared when I first got the truck and it had conventional oil. The previous owners (only 1) didn't do hardly any service, which is why the engine had to get pulled. Nothing was majorly wrong, but a lot of parts needed to be replaced/updated and it had probably 15 years worth of oil and gunk all over! It was a mess...and still sorta is but is much better than before.

How is your suspension doing by the way, now that its been on for a bit? I have opted to swap out for SD springs front and rear - hopefully it makes a huge difference. Checking the grommets yesterday and theyre starting to fall apart in chunks haha! Its good to hear the rustoleum is doing well. I always wondered the longevity. I'm going to be using Sem Rust Shield and then some undercoating. Still worried about cracking, but it will be some good preventative maintenance hopefully to make that frame last my lifetime at least.

 

[Chorky]

Oh, and a couple of pics...

 

[Seabass]

I really like my suspension. I can't remember what I posted in my last update on my thread. I ended up installing a drop pitman arm, and a drop bracket for the track bar. It rides and drives like a different truck. Since I have a pair of these old dogs I'm able to see the difference daily. Only thing I did wrong was order the wrong height on my springs. When I bought my truck about five years ago I instantly threw them add-a-leaves on the front and didn't take good measurements. I just assumed they added 2". So I ordered 3" over stock height springs from Atlas. Well my add-a-leaf job added almost 3". I was really wanting one more inch. Solution: I added two short 1/2" thick leaves to the bottom of each pack (new center bolts and all so they are part of the packs) and the lift is perfect now. I couldn't see calling up Atlas and doing another set of springs. I haven't hurt anything with what I've done either. So other than that.....it's worked out beautiful. I know super duty spring swaps are popular. But my wife drives an 02 F-250 Super Duty. It's a gas, but it's 4x4. Great truck. I'll say this- you think our OBS F-350's ride harsh? Ride in her Super Duty! You'll think it has NO suspension! Her truck rides incredibly rough. So I can't see how adding super duty springs to anything make it ride better. If your going to take the time to buy and swap springs I'd suggest you look really hard at all the options. There's a good chance the super duty springs may not be your best option. That's just my opinion. I have no real world experience here with those springs in our trucks. Good luck!

 

[Chorky]

I'll say this- you think our OBS F-350's ride harsh? Ride in her Super Duty! You'll think it has NO suspension! Her truck rides incredibly rough. So I can't see how adding super duty springs to anything make it ride better. If your going to take the time to buy and swap springs I'd suggest you look really hard at all the options. There's a good chance the super duty springs may not be your best option. That's just my opinion. I have no real world experience here with those springs in our trucks. Good luck!

Oh no! Well I think the SD springs are already ordered.... hmm. i might have to figure something out. From all the other things I have researched said they would ride better, especially with a RSK and a shackle flip. maybe my research was incorrect??
One reason I didnt go with Atlas right now is because I dont know my end game weight. Planning to add front and rear bumpers with a winch on both ends, service body with several tools and equipment, and a pop up camper of some sort... so that would change the weight game a lot. But I'll have to relook at some things now.

On a lighter note, I'm glad you have good experience with your setup! THat's awesome! I'm looking forward to the RSK at least!

 

[Seabass]

I'd guess and say that if the Super Duty spring swaps you're researching all did a shackle reverse- then that's where the better ride is from. Not so much the new springs- but the shackle swap. I say go for it. I'm sure it'll ride better than now. I also totally get not wanting to go with Atlas at this stage. Fernando was quick to ask about weight when I ordered. My truck is kinda finished. So I was ready to bite the bullet so to speak. Someday I'd love to do an aluminum flat bed. I'll loose my topper, but I'll gain tons of other options. But that's a ways off, if ever. I have a really nice original factory bed. Can't see taking it off just yet. Unless I found someone who wanted it enough to buy it for what it's worth.....$$$!

 

[Chorky]

Fernando was quick to ask about weight when I ordered.

Yeah see thats the big issue is not knowing weights. I mean I could guestimate some things based on knowing what the plan is but the reality is not knowing when that will actually happen. Additionally, one plan was to purposefully have springs that are rated for less than the 'max planned' weight so that when on rough roads there is a better chance of movement, but when on paved roads the air bags on both ends can be pumped up some for stability. This idea sounds great, but adds a whole level of complexity to it that I haven't been able to figure out just yet. It also would require different valving of the shocks to match. And, the weight of the future pop-up camper is next to impossible to estimate since there is such a huge variation in weights.

 

[Chorky]

Well the suspension/axle work has been in progress for a few weeks now. Here is what I settled on:

SKY 4" RSK
rear shackle flip
associated hardware
SD springs front and rear - since I dont know total weights yet, plan is to still run Atlas 2 stagers at a 'weak' rate for off highway use, and airbags on all 4's for highway stability
Ball joints
U-joints
True Track front and rear
Adapting ARB diff breathers with hose extensions for axles and transfer case
35" duratrac's x6
16" ProComp rims to match
Warn hubs
Amsoil fluids for transfer and axles - to match the rest of the rig

In the process, the following things were added due to some damaged parts, chips, dents, etc.. along the way
New bearings/races all around
Replacing rear ring/pinion - chipped
Rebuilding front and rear driveline due to U-joints and shaft damages

So basically replacing everything more or less. But in the process of tear-down it was found many of the parts were either bad, worn, or about to fail - so $$$ yes, but if it wasn't noticed and fixed now, the potential cost for collateral after part failure would have been significantly higher - especially in relating to the drivelines. That being said, at this point it will basically be a brand new old truck - minus some small things and the trans (which I'm still not sure what to do with). But, with all the goodies, still comes in way under the cost of a brand new truck, is much easier to work on, has less failure points, less electronics that cannot be diagnosed, and leaves room left over for the rest of the build plans. $$$ very well spent I would say!

Pics to come...., but I'm already planning the next steps:
fuel tanks - 105 gal worth
bumpers
winch'es
service bed
paint repair
radios - well...er...install them
electrical upgrades - I am HEAVILY debating an ambulance alternator, or a dual alternator - the ambulance ones apparently are $1,000?!?!?!
custom pop-up from Phoenix
additional window tinting - for hot climates
and various misc things like switches, door locks, hinges, etc... standard maintenance stuff
and of course it wouldn't be complete without lights..... haha

 

[Chorky]

Oh and I forgot... prior to the suspension project was the frame project. I decided to choose a guy near by who supposedly is very reputable and has been doing this all his life. The mission was to strip, clean, and paint the frame as good as possible with a rust encapsulator (like eastwood) without doing a body-off. The frame was in good shape, but the existing factory undercoating was coming off, and there was surface rust on probably 75% of it. Nothin major though.

Long story short, when I got the truck back after a week, I noticed something very irritating. 1) the frame was missing HUGE spots of being painted, something like only 50% of it was painted, and of that 50%, 50% of that was such a light coat that you could see the rust through the coating, 2) the bill listed only 12-16 hours of labor but the truck was there for a full week, 3) much of the undercoating was just painted over and was 'peeling' so that the encapsulator was essentially ineffective and a waste, 4) ITEMS WERE STOLEN!!! About $1,000 worth!

So I confronted the owner. Saying he was going to have to 'consult his team' to figure out what happened, I figured I would have to resort to filing with the BBB in that he probably was going to dismiss everything. But....to my surprise I got a very anxious phone message! He admitted fault! On the answering machine of all things. So in talking with him he said he was very irritated himself especially that his own son was the one doing the work, and that he wanted to make it right. I told him I am under a SEVERE time crunch and that I would be in touch after the suspension is all fixed up. One side of me certainly wants him to fix his mistake, yet the other doesnt' want him to touch my truck again. I'm considering telling him to finish the original job, and do it in one day so it will not have the opportunity to sit there for any length of time, and to cancel all the rest of the work I had considered having him do. But, the simple fact that he admitted the mistake is huge in my book.... But still....loosing 1/2 in value of the original job that wasn't even completed in itself is highly irritating. *insert very angry steaming red face*

 

[Chorky]

Ok...so Suspension work done - well. Sorta almost. Some minor things. But its pretty amazing! Way better than stock. The front flexes a TON. The rear not as much, then again there really isn't a lot of weight back there as pictured. The springs are SD springs for a F-250 (new). I'm not sure what exactly the differences are between 250 and 350 other than lack of overload's - but I wanted to remove overloads anyway for a 'loose' set-up off highway, and pump up air bags for stability on highway. I'm not sure exactly how atlas will feel, but I'm wondering if they would even be necessary for a while - might just ride these for a bit. It actually rides and feels a lot like my TJ which has the Currie system in it. The plus is obvious - better off highway performance. - WAY better. I tested the 'old' system (which came to find out was SUPER worn) as compared to this new set-up and its night and day. Even rides better than my dad's new 2018 Ram 3500. The downside is it might be a tad too loose for towing heavy, so I'm considering airbags here in a few weeks since I head to big sky country soon with my 7K# travel trailer (home). There is some pretty substantial clearance issues going on. Obviously the front bumper needs to be trimmed - in a few weeks probably. But with the shackle reversal, when compressed the axle obviously moves rearward. I noticed that I could get the tires (35's) to actually touch the fender and still have 4-6" of up-travel left. Now, to make that much travel possible the springs would be crying... and probably would only occur if some idiot stole it and decided to try jumping it. At lease as far as I'm concerned it'll probably never happen during normal driving as this was just a 'test' of sorts, but it does raise some questions... How close does that tolerance actually get on road, such as going over a speed bump? What is going to occur when I'm chained on all 4's which is very likely all winter? The tires do rub the springs and prevent full wheel lock - which from what I understand is normal with all this. It will take some time to get used to the handling characteristics. Everything is nice and tight, but the height and 'looser' suspension (which is what I wanted) does allow the truck to wonder some, especially at highway speeds on bad roads (which is pretty much all of my area anymore...) and it could appear to an officer that I'm not paying attention to the road. And that does make me wonder how she will handle in the future with a full service bed and pop-up camper. But then again, its not meant for speed. Its for exploring, and cruising rough roads in somewhat comfort at a pace faster than a snail.

So all in all - I'm super happy. Although full testing won't happen for another week sadly, the pre-test is winning.

Pics! sorry, no pics of sitting flat to see the height differences...maybe in a few weeks.




Next up - canopy on Tuesday, hopefully allowing me to install radios and finish the center console, starter lockout switch (easy and temporary), airbags

Stay tuned!

 

[Seabass]

Congratulations on getting it going! Looks great! I'm experiencing everything you are. At least in terms of handling. My ride is stellar. My truck is loose as well. I really noticed it when I went to 35's. But I think a combination of tall tires with a lot of sidewall, taller and more flexible suspension, long ladder frames that move a lot, and steering that isn't crisp like newer designed systems......it just makes these trucks feel like they are wandering. Oh- and the old 7.3's are heavy too. I have the added weight of a winch bumper and winch with a mile of steel cable too. So on back roads I don't drive like im in a a sports car. But it's not scary or dangerous. You just don't speed. On big highways it's fine. I can cruise 75 and feel comfortable on the interstates. But off road I can literally travel twice as fast as with the stock suspension. That's nice. Like you I'm interested in slower travel all around. Now with weight- I'm still running new, upgraded springs for our model trucks on the rear. They even look stock at a glance- unlike the front setup- that even a non- truck guy could tell is modified. The packs have two more leaves than stock, and add about two inches of lift. But retain the factory over-loads above the spring packs. I've had some big loads and it drove exactly the same as empty. More or less. My flatbed goose is 32' long with dual tandem axels. It weighs almost 9,000 pounds empty. So I'm starting out heavy with it anyway. My slide in camper weighs about 1,500 dry. I can tell it's there. The back roads are a bit more interesting when packing it. Seems like the truck is more top heavy. And it is. But again- it still feels safe. But I know that I don't need to corner like I'm racing. And when I meet a car I pay attention to the shoulder of the road cause it's gonna grab me, and pull me. I knew 20,000lb loads were going to occur in my world- so I had to maintain a stout rear suspension. But it does move, it does flex. Just not as much as a dedicated off road suspension should. But I'm splitting the middle here. Luckily the front- especially now that I removed the sway bar- moves a lot with Atlas's soft springs. Our setups aren't too different in many aspects. I couldn't be more happy. Everything I've done has worked out about like I was hoping. The only surprise for me was the tires. A lot of the looseness occurred with the tires (my opinion). I wasn't expecting it. I've never had a truck this heavy with this much tire. My buddy is trying to get me to go 17's or maybe 18's to reduce the sidewall size. He says it'll handle better. I bet he's right. But I am very old-school. I don't care if they do drive better. I'm sticking with 16's. I like my setup fine. I would love an aluminum flat bed though. I know I posted that before...but I want one more now. Again, great job on your truck!