Destination Unknown - a 1997 F350 build

[Chorky]

Congratulations...

Thanks Seabass! I do appreciate hearing it all. Like you said the ride is pretty sweet! I figured that the increased sidewall height was going to make things feel plush - after all it is a lot more rubber. Like you said also, I was able to drive twice as fast on the backroads as before and feel like riding on a pillow! It was perfect since I do a lot of that, and having to crawl below 15 really takes up a lot of time. Of course more technical situations would certainly require careful calculations. I do hope to test out the TrueTracks on both ends at some point to see what the difference they make actually is.

To be honest I am shocked though at just how much of a difference the suspension made. I think having both sway bars removed also made a huge difference. Although to my surprise there was still quite a lot of frame flex, and a lot more body creaking now - so I may opt to find out how to make the body mounted on springs (funny story though, the engineers at Knapide said spring mounted beds actually cause more damage than frame mounted ones???) And these duratracs aren't known for the thickest sidewall, but from everything I hear they are an excellent winter /mild off road tire. I have Cooper Discoverer STT Pro's on the TJ, and they are amazing off road and hard packed surfaces, but not so much in the ice... So I chose the duratracs. I also, like your friend, considered 17's or 18's, even possibly 19's; however, I found out that the larger rims actually had a lower weight rated tire. So for example the duratras I have on 16's are rated at 3850 I believe, but the 17's-19's are below 3100... Now its not like I'm expecting to load the truck to 15K#s, but I do believe that in some way a higher rated tire would have stronger side walls (even though both are E rated)? Just an assumption though. The wondering is to be expected, after all the work if you consider the differences from an engineering perspective, but does raise some questions for towing/loaded. Your mention about the heavier bumper does make me wonder if next year these springs will still suffice or not. I'm planning to have a pretty heavy duty bumper with winch added (the "outback" version by buckstop with a 16K winch - and in the future probably a snow plow).

So for your rear springs, I thought those were looser, but you have more leaves? Care to elaborate some? I'm curious, with your trailer, how did the truck handle the corners? I'm curious with the extra body sway how things will be up and down mountain passes - planning to test that next weekend actually, but it would nice to hear your experience. What about the roll with your camper, since you mentioned it was "interesting"? I would guess that by the end of the 'project' I will be overloaded a fair amount in the rear with a full service bed, full fuel (including a 3rd tank), and full camper. My all time biggest concern (even with the TJ) is rolling. Now to combat this, and on road body sway, I am seriously considering airbags on all 4's, I'm pretty sure this would help some, even with sway's removed. Tuesday I'm planning to get a canopy from craigs - its a steel one with the side storage compartments. Owner says it's 'heavy' but that's subjective? Though it will offer me the ability to store most of my gear now securely - generator, fuel, propane, saws, gas, equipment, personal gear, axes, shovels, 2 spare tires, etc... So no doubt that will also change characteristics some.

In any case, with slower driving it is all manageable other than on off camber situations, or deep ditches - which is frequently encountered. But regardless of the potential 'problems', the pros vastly outweigh the cons by a huge margin in my book - at least for what I plan to use the truck for in my lifetime.

 

[Seabass]

Well, the rear isn't looser. Overall the truck is. Even the rear. But the rear being looser I attribute solely on the tires. My new rear springs are substantially heavier (literally and figuratively) than the stock ones. I can put a lot of weight in the bed and it doesn't squat much at all. My truck rides around with a fiberglass shell on with my tools and gear, and me in the seat at 8,950 pounds. All the time. That's fairly heavy. My other truck weighs an even 9,000 all the time- and it's only got a 460- so it's packing a LOT of stuff. It handles so different than the diesel. But I digress. Curves and weight.... The trucks handling is very different packing the camper versus the trailer. My camper is an old Jayco. It's a pop-up style. But it's got a fair good bit of weight above the cab. The top is kinda heavy- the canvas is heavy, it has a full size bed over the cab. A lot of its weight is up in the air. And the front gets some of the weight with the camper because a lot of the camper is ahead of the rear axel. So it has much more effect on the front suspension. It's not bad, or hard on the truck but it makes everything feel different from the drivers seat. As for the goosenecks and a really big load on a trailer- I do drive slower. But most of the weight is right on the gooseneck ball and the rear suspension gets most of the load. That's where those two extra leaves and overloads do their job and do it well. That suspension compresses just enough to get more rigid. It is solid when it's down. The truck rolls some, sure. But it's nothing I can't easily compensate for. I haul horses plenty with it too. I'd say I'm pulling six to seven thousand pounds. That's just easy on my truck. I don't have to really even drive it any different from empty. In fact it hardly knows that load is there. But again- all on the rear axel. As for your front bumper....I had a 2nd gen Dodge 24valve that I put a big Ranch hand bumper on. It totally decimated the trucks handling. But, I really haven't noticed that much difference on these old fords. I've had "GO TO HELL" bumpers of some kind on all of them. The last two are the only two with winches though. Mostly the trucks just sat a bit lower and rode like they were a bit heavier. Which isn't in line with what I said about the camper and the additional front end weight. I still say it's the height of the weight on the camper. With a bumper/winch it's right at the axel and low. But- I'm sure it'll take an inch or two off your ride though. As a rule I don't like to add any more weight with a bumper than I need. I want one that can handle a winch, and can pull from. I want my front protected. We have a crap-ton of white tail deer here and I've hit a few in every truck I've ever owned. One while going 60mph. Didn't hurt the truck at all....the buck however didn't come out as well. So there's a balance between having what is needed and being over-kill. The steer axel already has a lot to do just carrying the 7.3. The ball joints and tie-rod ends will thank you for every pound you can shed. It's really easy to over think this leaf spring stuff. Yes, there's formulas and rules, and how many pounds this and that....but in the end if you just add a little more spring than you think you need you'll be fine. Just don't be under done. I even told Fernando my front was heavier than it really is for my Atlas springs. I'm planning on swapping to synthetic rope this summer- and that's gonna free up some pounds! I have a lot of experience with air bags. They have their place. Overall- I only like them on the rear- and only for helping with big weight. And don't tie them together if you want stability. On my work truck I have a set of Firestone Ride Rites- tied them together with a "T" and ran one line to the back of the truck with a valve stem to air them up. I can inflate them to 60lbs pressure and it's amazing the weight the truck will carry. But in a curve the heavy side pushes its air to the light side and vice versa. So on flat roads: load is suspended. Curvy roads: not so fun. Plenty of body roll. Off road: the suspension still moves really well when you need load carrying abilities and articulating suspension at the same time. I don't care for them on the front. It's just too much stuff to worry about. Are they inflated the same? Is one leaking? Where is the leak? They can limit articulation. Switches, valves, bolts and plates. It adds up. Overall though, I just like springs better. They are simple and they work. And those two things are great. So have I muddied the water for you? I've done a lot with these old trucks.....I'm probably wrong on some of this. But everything I'm spouting out is coming from real world experience. I didn't read about what someone else did and make it out to be fact. I've done it my self. I'm just sharing what I experienced, and my opinion about it. But hopefully it'll help get you in a direction that seems right for you- so you can do it your "own self" (wife teaches 2nd grade and "ownself" is a funny "kid" phrase) and make your own observations without wasting some of the money and time that I have. But-dang I like what your doing! I'm curious about your tru-tracs, though. I got a Detroit in the old work truck- freaking awesome! I want to upgrade my Diesel's diffs in time. I got to admit that the Detroit has a few quirks. I don't know if I want one in the diesel because of them. They tell me that a tru-trac is hard to notice till you need it. So I'm watching what you do. I may do it too!

 

[Chorky]

I have a lot of experience with air bags. They have their place. Overall- I only like them on the rear- and only for helping with big weight. And don't tie them together if you want stability. On my work truck I have a set of Firestone Ride Rites- tied them together with a "T" and ran one line to the back of the truck with a valve stem to air them up. I can inflate them to 60lbs pressure and it's amazing the weight the truck will carry. But in a curve the heavy side pushes its air to the light side and vice versa. So on flat roads: load is suspended. Curvy roads: not so fun. Plenty of body roll. Off road: the suspension still moves really well when you need load carrying abilities and articulating suspension at the same time. I don't care for them on the front. It's just too much stuff to worry about. Are they inflated the same? Is one leaking? Where is the leak? They can limit articulation. Switches, valves, bolts and plates. It adds up. Overall though, I just like springs better. They are simple and they work. And those two things are great. So have I muddied the water for you? I've done a lot with these old trucks.....I'm probably wrong on some of this. But everything I'm spouting out is coming from real world experience. I didn't read about what someone else did and make it out to be fact. I've done it my self. I'm just sharing what I experienced, and my opinion about it. But hopefully it'll help get you in a direction that seems right for you- so you can do it your "own self" (wife teaches 2nd grade and "ownself" is a funny "kid" phrase) and make your own observations without wasting some of the money and time that I have. But-dang I like what your doing! I'm curious about your tru-tracs, though. I got a Detroit in the old work truck- freaking awesome! I want to upgrade my Diesel's diffs in time. I got to admit that the Detroit has a few quirks. I don't know if I want one in the diesel because of them. They tell me that a tru-trac is hard to notice till you need it. So I'm watching what you do. I may do it too!

Ahh ok for some reason I thought your springs in the rear had a lower rating than the factory ones. 9K isn't too much weight though I don't think. I expect in my future to be 11 or so all the time. As the future for my rig is a service bed and camper (with kayaks even) I'm expecting to have issues with stability, which is going to need some careful considerations I think. The reason for the bumper for me is similar to you it seems. I hear there is a lot of wildlife incidences on the roads where I'm headed, and with all this work to the truck I would hate for a elk to ruin my day, so I figured a beefy bumper that takes the hit is better than the alternative. I do need to weigh my front axle to see what kind of buffer I am dealing with though. Maybe a steel/aluminum combo for strength and weight?

Aside from the complexities, is there any other functional reason you dislike airbags for the front? I had already considered having the rear controlled separately for each side just for what you mentioned, so that's cool I'm not the only one who thinks that way haha. But I figured the fronts would also be good especially with expecting to have a plow during winters at times. I had considered doing the same as the rear and also making sure they can be inflated separately for stability. But the rear is a must especially as I continue on with a fully loaded service bed, spares, and pop-up. But as usual I appreciate your input. Its always great to hear from those who have been there before to learn from their lessons prior to making one of your own that might not be such a good one.

As for the truetracs. I haven't noticed them at all, and have made several pretty tight turns (had to trim the bumper about 3-4 inches yesterday). I'm sure I'll find out soon if they are worth it. From an engineering perspective they seem amazing, but real life is usually something totally different. Regardless, as I get more familiar with them and get them in situations where they actually work, I'll be sure to post some updates. I did consider other options such as the Detroit, but in a truck that will be fully loaded on a variety of terrain, I figured something less effective but less noticeable would be better, for me anyway. After all, its not a hard core off road truck - thats what a jeep is for.

 

[Chorky]

And before I forget...

I am truly rushing with things at this point. For those who didn't read previous posts, I had some incidences with the frame work that I was going to outsource. A week at the frame shop and the work was sub-par. LARGE portions of the frame was not even touched, the portions which were were already showing the very minor rust I had through the paint. About the only thing that was really covered somewhat sufficiently was the axles. And even those had issues. To top it all off, items were stolen, equaling nearly 1/2 of the cost of the job. The owner of the place admitted fault, and swore he would do it right and fix it, and 'make it right'. Normally in other situations I would totally take one up on that offer; however, this was just too sketch to do such a thing. Now I must say in all honesty that their prep work (even though it was just a hot pressure wash of sorts with some solvents) did make the job for me much MUCH easier to finish prep-work now that all the heavy grease, oil, and road junk was mostly gone. So I opted to fix what he didn't do on my own. After sourcing parts from Eastwood, spending nearly 6 hours cleaning, and another 3 hours doing prep work, it took about 5.5 hours to paint the whole frame. I was SUPER lucky that it took only 5 full cans of the encapsulater I chose, and about 1/4 of an extra can of random stuff I had lying around. As I'm under a serious time crunch now, this worked out perfectly, so the truck can sit in the shop and cure for the night. The job was a pain just due to time constraints, so I didn't bother doing a 'professional' job like I would have liked (and yes, this rushed job is eating me up alive!!!!!!); however, the big work is done, and the majority of the frame is sufficiently coated...I think, no I hope, anyway. I would love to have a second coat on, but I made the first coat somewhat heavy, and I made sure to do the hurried prep-work as good as possible given a one day timeframe for the job, so hopefully it will suffice. Since the frame is, well...obviously what ties the truck together, I really wanted to do this since I first purchased it. it wasn't bad by any means, but as I see it, if one is putting in $$$$$$ for engine, driveline, body, accessories, and all sorts of other work, it is a no brainer to also help the frame, the bones, of the rig to stand the test of time - well...er...my lifetime anyway. Especially in harsh environments of heavy amounts of rain and snow. I'm super glad I chose this truck aside from others, as the frame really to me is a huge deal. Once the bed comes off for a service bed, and the tanks come out for replacements, I'll hopefully have the opportunity to do even a better job.

Anywhoo... Here ya go.



Next up, figuring out how to do storage in the bed in prep for the canopy on tuesday. I'm thinking some d-rings or standard tie-downs, and just bolting them to the side of the bed - since a service bed is in the future anyway I'm not too concerned about Swiss cheesing the inside of the bed to securely tie things down - I NEVER travel with items just loose. Too many people have been killed that way.

 

[Chorky]

Almost forgot - I also feel the need to say, that using proper protective equipment is a absolute must, at all times. I know several people who usually scoff at such ideas, especially when painting, even if its only a few cans such as today. And in the past, especially with cleaning agents, I usually might have said the same thing. However, this time I opted to get a respirator knowing I would be somewhat 'stuck' under the truck with all the fumes. Even though I have a full beard which prevented the respirator from sealing to my skin and doing a super good job, I will never go without again....ever. After seeing bone white filters turn to BLACK after a days' worth of spraying, imagining what that could have done to my lungs....never again. So when in doubt, always throw in some extra safety precautions! Just my .02

 

[Seabass]

I have a lot of experience with air bags. They have their place. Overall- I only like them on the rear- and only for helping with big weight. And don't tie them together if you want stability. On my work truck I have a set of Firestone Ride Rites- tied them together with a "T" and ran one line to the back of the truck with a valve stem to air them up. I can inflate them to 60lbs pressure and it's amazing the weight the truck will carry. But in a curve the heavy side pushes its air to the light side and vice versa. So on flat roads: load is suspended. Curvy roads: not so fun. Plenty of body roll. Off road: the suspension still moves really well when you need load carrying abilities and articulating suspension at the same time. I don't care for them on the front. It's just too much stuff to worry about. Are they inflated the same? Is one leaking? Where is the leak? They can limit articulation. Switches, valves, bolts and plates. It adds up. Overall though, I just like springs better. They are simple and they work. And those two things are great. So have I muddied the water for you? I've done a lot with these old trucks.....I'm probably wrong on some of this. But everything I'm spouting out is coming from real world experience. I didn't read about what someone else did and make it out to be fact. I've done it my self. I'm just sharing what I experienced, and my opinion about it. But hopefully it'll help get you in a direction that seems right for you- so you can do it your "own self" (wife teaches 2nd grade and "ownself" is a funny "kid" phrase) and make your own observations without wasting some of the money and time that I have. But-dang I like what your doing! I'm curious about your tru-tracs, though. I got a Detroit in the old work truck- freaking awesome! I want to upgrade my Diesel's diffs in time. I got to admit that the Detroit has a few quirks. I don't know if I want one in the diesel because of them. They tell me that a tru-trac is hard to notice till you need it. So I'm watching what you do. I may do it too!

Ahh ok for some reason I thought your springs in the rear had a lower rating than the factory ones. 9K isn't too much weight though I don't think. I expect in my future to be 11 or so all the time. As the future for my rig is a service bed and camper (with kayaks even) I'm expecting to have issues with stability, which is going to need some careful considerations I think. The reason for the bumper for me is similar to you it seems. I hear there is a lot of wildlife incidences on the roads where I'm headed, and with all this work to the truck I would hate for a elk to ruin my day, so I figured a beefy bumper that takes the hit is better than the alternative. I do need to weigh my front axle to see what kind of buffer I am dealing with though. Maybe a steel/aluminum combo for strength and weight?

Aside from the complexities, is there any other functional reason you dislike airbags for the front? I had already considered having the rear controlled separately for each side just for what you mentioned, so that's cool I'm not the only one who thinks that way haha. But I figured the fronts would also be good especially with expecting to have a plow during winters at times. I had considered doing the same as the rear and also making sure they can be inflated separately for stability. But the rear is a must especially as I continue on with a fully loaded service bed, spares, and pop-up. But as usual I appreciate your input. Its always great to hear from those who have been there before to learn from their lessons prior to making one of your own that might not be such a good one.

As for the truetracs. I haven't noticed them at all, and have made several pretty tight turns (had to trim the bumper about 3-4 inches yesterday). I'm sure I'll find out soon if they are worth it. From an engineering perspective they seem amazing, but real life is usually something totally different. Regardless, as I get more familiar with them and get them in situations where they actually work, I'll be sure to post some updates. I did consider other options such as the Detroit, but in a truck that will be fully loaded on a variety of terrain, I figured something less effective but less noticeable would be better, for me anyway. After all, its not a hard core off road truck - thats what a jeep is for.

Wow! 11,000 pounds is pretty heavy. And I agree- mine at about 9,000 isn't really that much. But a considerable more than stock. I get why you want bags. I think they'll help you out. And to answer your question- there's nothing really wrong with air bags. My opinion. Especially when you need variability in suspension capability. Err....you know what I mean. You don't always need super stiff springs- so you air down. My only complaints are: they can limit articulating (in particular droop of suspension) and second: if you do the onboard air management (i.e. Compressor and gauges and switches and valves) it adds a new level of up-keep. Ask me how I know. It can make you pull your beard out. Again-ask me how I know. But hey- I run rears on my work truck. They do what they are intended to do. And I keep using them. I have used them on the front. No big deal. Same basic idea as rears. Same complaints, and same gains. I'm thinking that if I wanted the all around usability that you do- and planned on hitting the weights you are planning on, then I'd do them too. Hopefully you have a solid system that you install and fully understand. That way you can maintain it easier. I wasn't trying to talk you out of them- I just prefer a simple spring suspension only. I've never really considered putting them on my diesel. But it probably won't ever be as heavy all the time as you either. If I do a flat bed- I hope to do aluminum. And my long goal is a FWC. I'm just not going to be much heavier than now since my current camper is heavy compared to what I want. I'm also not packing some stuff right now either that I do when traveling. But still- it's only a few hundred pounds of gear and tools that I don't leave in the truck all the time. Thanks for addressing the tru-trac stuff. That'll be interesting to read about. And your frame! That thing is in excellent shape! I'm in the edge of the rust belt. My frame had a good bit of surface rust and some minor pitting from one end to the other. Don't get me wrong- it's super solid....but it don't look nearly as smooth and new as yours. Dang "western privilege"! Western trucks are always nicer than eastern ones.

 

[Chorky]

Wow! 11,000 pounds is pretty heavy. And I agree- mine at about 9,000 isn't really that much. But a considerable more than stock. I get why you want bags. I think they'll help you out. And to answer your question- there's nothing really wrong with air bags. My opinion. Especially when you need variability in suspension capability. Err....you know what I mean. You don't always need super stiff springs- so you air down. My only complaints are: they can limit articulating (in particular droop of suspension) and second: if you do the onboard air management (i.e. Compressor and gauges and switches and valves) it adds a new level of up-keep. Ask me how I know. It can make you pull your beard out. Again-ask me how I know. But hey- I run rears on my work truck. They do what they are intended to do. And I keep using them. I have used them on the front. No big deal. Same basic idea as rears. Same complaints, and same gains. I'm thinking that if I wanted the all around usability that you do- and planned on hitting the weights you are planning on, then I'd do them too. Hopefully you have a solid system that you install and fully understand. That way you can maintain it easier. I wasn't trying to talk you out of them- I just prefer a simple spring suspension only. I've never really considered putting them on my diesel. But it probably won't ever be as heavy all the time as you either. If I do a flat bed- I hope to do aluminum. And my long goal is a FWC. I'm just not going to be much heavier than now since my current camper is heavy compared to what I want. I'm also not packing some stuff right now either that I do when traveling. But still- it's only a few hundred pounds of gear and tools that I don't leave in the truck all the time. Thanks for addressing the tru-trac stuff. That'll be interesting to read about. And your frame! That thing is in excellent shape! I'm in the edge of the rust belt. My frame had a good bit of surface rust and some minor pitting from one end to the other. Don't get me wrong- it's super solid....but it don't look nearly as smooth and new as yours. Dang "western privilege"! Western trucks are always nicer than eastern ones.

Yeah 11K is heavy. I'm really hoping to stay under 10, but from my thoughts I will be over. So 105 gal of fuel, plus front and rear winch bumpers, 2 spares, service bed with saws, equipment, recovery gear, etc... and of course a pop-up with 300#'s of kayaks (not all the time though). I'm pretty sure that'll be over lol. I would be happy if I could stay right at 10, but we shall see.

Your idea of a flatbed and FWC sounds pretty awesome!! I had considered that before too. A flatbed is just nice to have and very useful, and modular; however, for me, I just have a need to carry a bunch of junk too often - many poke fun at it, but it all gets used, and when I don't bring it, it becomes a major deal of needing it usually. I also agree that a simple suspension system is best. Heck, simple in general is best. It makes life less complicated. I love my truck, but my biggest beef with it is all the electronics. I see a IDI-T in my future. Simple, basic, reliable, and no electronics!!! Although they're a total pig. But the reality for me is I think some of the 'fancy' stuff (bags) might be necessary for stability and usability. After all, the truck could be super awesome but if never used its worthless right? But theres always time to change things and ideas/plans so who knows what will actually happen.

On another note - I'm hoping the community could chime in on something here. With the suspension work and tires, I need a new hitch for my trailer. A drop hitch. Probably an adjustable one since I don't know truly the drop needed, and probably a 7" one to be safe, and to use other shorter trailers in the future. The question is what kind? Do I stick with something simple, or a simple one with a sway controller, or dual sways, or weight dist., or a combination, or these new fancy gen-Y torsion ones? The truck, with the changes, does have significant more body roll than before. And although it's excellent off road, I do wonder the dynamics and safety factor when towing 7K#'s, especially around corners at speed, and mtn passes. I really need something soon....as in I'm leaving either wednesday or thursday for a 'test' to make sure all works well before going 500 miles to my summer/near permanent job. I've never used anything other than a standard ball. And although I have towed a lot of super heavy stuff in the military and with the CDL, bumper pulls are a different animal. So I don't really know when and who truly needs these new fancy torsion or weight dist hitches, and who doesnt... I do think I want the sway or dual sway controllers simply for cross winds and passing 18-wheelers. But I'm really needing something good, and fast.... any suggestions are very welcome!

Off to check that frame paint!

 

[Eldgen]

Mine Weighs in at 11k when loaded for the hills. I built my own airbag mounts with the bag cups to keep from hindering flex, plumbed them separate and replaced my license plate bolts with the schrader valves.

 

[Seabass]

Mine Weighs in at 11k when loaded for the hills. I built my own airbag mounts with the bag cups to keep from hindering flex, plumbed them separate and replaced my license plate bolts with the schrader valves.

I have thought many times about fabricating cups for mine. It's amazing that a little rubber balloon can hold an axel up so well. I may be wrong- but I think Day-Star sells a bolt on cup kit for the Firestone bags. I think I'm gonna leave mine plumbed together. It does help off road. And then if one gets to leaking off I don't have to worry about my truck sitting all crooked.

 

[Chorky]

I have thought many times about fabricating cups for mine. It's amazing that a little rubber balloon can hold an axel up so well. I may be wrong- but I think Day-Star sells a bolt on cup kit for the Firestone bags. I think I'm gonna leave mine plumbed together. It does help off road. And then if one gets to leaking off I don't have to worry about my truck sitting all crooked.

Yeah you are correct Day-Star does sell cups for firestone bags. In fact this has been my plan all along knowing that the suspension changes have increased travel which is not conducive to the airbags unless it is totally stock. So to allow for significant travel off road, and support on highway, I had planned on day-star cups from the start. I think the bags will be going on soon after testing things out this weekend. I have seen some frame mounted videos of the cups/bags in action on super rough roads, and they seem to work really really well. My only concern would be a rock getting in the cup and puncturing the bottom of the bag. One critical component though that I need to figure out is some sort of support bracket or steel. If you consider how the weight on springs is distributed over several feet of frame, while bags put essentially the entirety of the weight on one point, something could go wrong. So I am considering adding some steel from shackle to shackle, and bolting the bag brackets through the added steel and frame. Yes, this would most certainly add weight; however, I have recently removed 50% of a extendable bumper mount that the previous owners had installed. That darn thing probably weighed over 300#s!!! Plus, the gooseneck is MASSIVE, and that is just going to have to go away for now - aside from not needing it just yet, it wasn't installed all that great and is due for replacement in my book anyway.

In other news, I settled on a hitch - for lack of time I just pulled the trigger. The local trailer shop hooked me up. 8" drop with a dist hitch minus the bars, but with the sway controller since the trailer already had the attachments when I purchased it. So in the future if I so need I have the option for the bars for a weight distribution. Its simple, and will work for now. Its super heavy though!! Thicker steel than my frame, and probably weighs in at 50#'s! But its rated at 14K towing, and 1700 tong, which is a little below my receiver rating of 16K and 2400, so theres a good safety margin there. Sadly, I found out my sway controller was machined wrong, so another stop to the store tomorrow after the canopy. I'm down to one day to get a bunch of random little things done before this weekend. Also, I have not fully hooked up to the trailer yet, and still need to get it to level ground, but if I'm right, I will still have one hole to move downward with the 8" drop. That is assuming the canopy and gear weigh things down a few inches. I'm surprised at how much taller the back end is - in this situation, real life did not match engineering mathematics.

Mine Weighs in at 11k when loaded for the hills. I built my own airbag mounts with the bag cups to keep from hindering flex, plumbed them separate and replaced my license plate bolts with the schrader valves.

How does your rig handle the off highway roads loaded at 11k? is your weight low, or is it top heavy?

 

[Seabass]

Somewhere here on the portal a guy has a thread- or posted in a thread about airbag related problems. He has a truck like ours and the top plate for his rear bags literally ripped out of the frame. He ran the bags tight and was loaded heavy and was off road a lot. He had the frame repaired and then plated. The frames aren't super thick where the top plate is intended to mount. Ever since I saw his post and accompanying pics I never inflate my bags over sixty psi. Now- he may have accidentally been using his bags as bump stops. That would make for some serious impacts on the plates. Or he may have just over done things. There's an inch or two of up/down placement where you could attach that top plate. If you got it too low....I could see impact with the bottom plate at full compression. Best I can tell my factory bump stops hit before my air bags are out of room. Either way- I think you are totally correct to plate and brace up that area of the frame. It is a lot of work going on in just a few square inches of frame and definitely not what Ford intended for that area of the frame. I'm sorry I didn't think to bring this issue up since I have previously known of it. Glad you thought of it. For what it's worth- I have some really big flat washers on the back side of my top plates. I just thought it was a good idea and did then before I saw that guys post. I've never bothered with plating even though I think it's worth while. I check my frame a few times a year. No cracks. No problems. And I've had some really big weights on my old flat bed truck. Off road and all. Not saying I won't....but so far so good. Again- just another reason for me personally to prefer adequately made leaf springs and skip bags. You are definitely in the right direction though.

 

[Chorky]

Somewhere here on the portal a guy has a thread- or posted in a thread about airbag related problems. He has a truck like ours and the top plate for his rear bags literally ripped out of the frame. He ran the bags tight and was loaded heavy and was off road a lot. He had the frame repaired and then plated. The frames aren't super thick where the top plate is intended to mount. Ever since I saw his post and accompanying pics I never inflate my bags over sixty psi. Now- he may have accidentally been using his bags as bump stops. That would make for some serious impacts on the plates. Or he may have just over done things. There's an inch or two of up/down placement where you could attach that top plate. If you got it too low....I could see impact with the bottom plate at full compression. Best I can tell my factory bump stops hit before my air bags are out of room. Either way- I think you are totally correct to plate and brace up that area of the frame. It is a lot of work going on in just a few square inches of frame and definitely not what Ford intended for that area of the frame. I'm sorry I didn't think to bring this issue up since I have previously known of it. Glad you thought of it. For what it's worth- I have some really big flat washers on the back side of my top plates. I just thought it was a good idea and did then before I saw that guys post. I've never bothered with plating even though I think it's worth while. I check my frame a few times a year. No cracks. No problems. And I've had some really big weights on my old flat bed truck. Off road and all. Not saying I won't....but so far so good. Again- just another reason for me personally to prefer adequately made leaf springs and skip bags. You are definitely in the right direction though.

Yeah I think I have seen that one before, and I think even on my build on page 3, Motafinga posted a photo of a bag gone wrong on a frame. Either way the bags are on hold for now - my gooseneck from the previous owner was not totally installed correctly, and i'm worried removal will reveal a few issues, so its going to be left alone for the summer and dealt with next year when it can be removed, and steel added to the frame for the bags.

Which leads me into.....

 

[Chorky]

So last wednesday I headed out to a somewhat remote place for a variety of things, which included towing my trailer and doing a full test of systems of the trailer and truck. Everything worked flawlessly!!

The truck was loaded about as much as it will be this summer. Aside from my 7K trailer, the truck had both spares, the newly acquired canopy, full fuel, a generator, tools, spare parts, 'work' equipment, saws and gas and parts, axes, and more. Total weight of extras in the bed was probably, oh...500 pounds? It's hard to say really... Much less than the future anticipated 3K pounds.

The truck towed the trailer just fine (although lift and tires restricted me to 45 over mtn passes to keep EGT temps reasonable)! Aside from my previous post, bags aren't really even necessary at this point. The only time I could have used them was on what King Co. likes to call a well maintained freeway (ie. I90). But the dips and ruts were so bad, I'm sure fully pumped bags would have caused issues, on that particular section I was almost bottoming out everything. I seriously hate 90 on the west side - King Co. has major misappropriation of funds. Anywhoo...bags they are still in the plan for future needs, for now they are not needed. I did end up with a 8" drop hitch that can have dist bars added later, and I did have a sway controller on (which I am 100% sold on for future trailers) which helped a ton with some crazy cross winds. But overall, I am extremely happy with everything. Of course with a total custom fabricated system things would be even better, but for 'standard' bolt on parts, this thing rides and drives better than my TJ with a wicked suspension set-up. Towing is just great, and better than with the super heavy duty springs that were on before. Off road abilities are unsurpassed. I took a little side trip to an observatory (46.95116, -120.72425) and was able to cruise most roads in the area at 10-40 (road quality dependent) with ease, and without destroying the truck or my kidneys. One particular stretch of road turned into somewhat of a Jeep trail. A steep section of about 50-60 deg slope, very loose rock, and dips up to about 2-3' deep. Reaching the bottom, I figured this would be a great chance to test out the true-tracks. So a 500 point turn later, I headed back up, crawling along I most certainly heard and felt quite a lot of wheel slip due to the loose rocks and dips; HOWEVER, I felt absolutely NO loss of traction. In other words, the true-tracks, once noticing slip, grabbed seamlessly and smoothly allowing the opposite tires to crawl with traction. Now, I probably should have tested it in 2wd just to be sure, but if I can get a hold of the video my friend took I'm sure you will see that a true-track all around front and rear is really an excellent way to go for a truck such as this. Lockers....those should just be left for Jeeps or hard core situations. With the F250 springs (lighter), flip, reversal, lift, and 35's I had more than enough clearance and travel to get through this trail. And to be honest, the testing I did this weekend is just that - a test. More than I really expect to do on a regular basis, but it is great to know that the truck is capable of doing exactly what I wanted. And with knowing I probably only reached 75% of the trucks limit, I know that I will have a 'reserve' buffer even when the final build is complete, which was my plan all along. The only unknown at this point is what the rollover angles will be once a service bed and camper is added, and as mentioned before, this is and always has been my biggest fear. Also, all this testing was done with the tires fully pumped to 60 since I don't yet have a compressor. I'm sure aired down to about 30, things would be simply stunning. Now as a caveat, as with everything there was some concerns. The tires do rub in certain situations, so that will just take time to get used to. The front hubs seemed to have a grinding feel, but I could not source the cause. And the frame still flexed a ton, which I know is normal for these, but just doesn't feel good. I think though once I have more weight in the bed, the rear springs will flex more and not feel so tight. At which point, bags will be useful on highway. Another potential issue that I am concerned about more is the weight on the front springs. They seem to not be quite right. On the shackle mounts, the springs sit all the way to the right, and I think that the whole axle is shifted right about an inch more than it should be (ie. not centered). But it was centered when the job was completed, so I'm not really sure if this is cause for concern or not.... The other thing is for the front springs, on the rear shackle mounts, they seem to already be having a negative arch. I know springs settle, but I'm wondering if these springs might be just a tad too weak for the big 7.3? I'll try and get some pics of this to see what the community thinks... But until then.... Enjoy these.





This last image - the Stuart range in the background, for effect.

 

[Seabass]

Sounds like the bag thing will work out. I'm confident you'll think your way through them and end up with something that will suit your needs well. Without pics it's hard to guess what's going on with that axel shift.... As far as the negative arch on your springs- my new Atlas springs started out perfectly flat at best. Now they are slightly negative arched. And they have like 6 or 8 leaves. Since I know they were built to hold my weight I'm not worried in the least. My original springs were negative. My other F -350 is flat- but only because it has a set of add-a-leaves. They were negative before. My wife's super duty is also slightly negative too. I haven't noticed many positive spring arches on these trucks till you got that 4" or greater spring lift. I guess I'm saying it may not be reason for concern. Truck looks great with the canopy! Oh- and the best thing about flat beds, and utility beds on these trucks- when the frame flexed its not nearly as noticeable since there's no longer matching body lines to point out just how twisted things are. It's honestly one of the reasons I want to do a flat on my diesel. What can I say...I'm vein.

 

[Chorky]

Sounds like the bag thing will work out. I'm confident you'll think your way through them and end up with something that will suit your needs well. Without pics it's hard to guess what's going on with that axel shift.... As far as the negative arch on your springs- my new Atlas springs started out perfectly flat at best. Now they are slightly negative arched. And they have like 6 or 8 leaves. Since I know they were built to hold my weight I'm not worried in the least. My original springs were negative. My other F -350 is flat- but only because it has a set of add-a-leaves. They were negative before. My wife's super duty is also slightly negative too. I haven't noticed many positive spring arches on these trucks till you got that 4" or greater spring lift. I guess I'm saying it may not be reason for concern. Truck looks great with the canopy! Oh- and the best thing about flat beds, and utility beds on these trucks- when the frame flexed its not nearly as noticeable since there's no longer matching body lines to point out just how twisted things are. It's honestly one of the reasons I want to do a flat on my diesel. What can I say...I'm vein.

Springs.....
I haven't noticed any rubbing, and I think all is 'ok' other than maybe some dogtracking, but it just seems odd to me..... Not quite sure hot to correct it either. The track bar and panhard bracket are solid and that could be a source for correction, but at the same time I wonder when cornering how much pressure is being placed on that stuff since the springs aren't being 'wedged' in.... Seems like they should be. But I never paid attention to the old stuff and its gone now so I don't have anything to reference.