Diesel engine swap + what "expedition rig"?

[Route55]

As has now been mentioned a few times, back seat room is limited with an XJ, but it is in most jeeps, even the grand. My kids pretty much hate riding around in the back of mine. They are both at the age where they have outgrown car seats but their legs are just long enough that the disproportioned rear seat (butt area is longer than average) doesn't allow their legs to bend at the knees without scooting forward.

3 car seats will not fit in the rear of an XJ, and even 3 kids in back gets pretty tight.

 

[Bdiddy11]

The XJ would get unibody reinforcements of course to help prolong it's lifespan.

Ideally I'd like to get/make an adventure trailer to help haul gear to keep interior room a bit more lux for the wife and kid(s).

Can't say I'm a huge fan of the Excursion... granted it would fit the family well, I just don't like how they look. That's part of the predicament of finding a suitable platform to build. My wife and I are picky in the looks department.

As far as platforms that we find "visually appealing" would be:
XJ
Grand Cherokee
09+ Libery
Land Cruiser
4 Runner (3rd gen, not huge on the earlier models or the 4th gen+)
Possibly a Montero or Trooper if done up right (not sure if my wife likes them)

Any kind of diesel swap (if it happens) the rig would get sound deadened as much as possible.

 

[Route55]

Of the choices you picked the XJ may be your best bet. Easy to work on, parts are cheap. Since you only have one kid now, why not just stay there, or have just one more? My wife and I stayed at two, because we don't want to own a van.

It's much easier to design your family around your vehicle wants and needs than visa-versa

 

[Bdiddy11]

Yeah, we hate minivans too...

We've thought about having between 3-5 kids. She comes from a family of 6, and I from a family of 8. After the next kid it'll depend on how many more we have =) Ideally I'd like at least three.

Reading this thread http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/44152-Overland-Camping-Vehicle-for-Family-of-6/page4 to get some more ideas/options.

 

[Viggen]

Please people, stop telling him that for a family of 5, an XJ is his best bet. Forgetting that fact that I could not close some of the doors when cross axled (90 Laredo with zero rust and in great condition), it just is NOT big enough. OP, how tall are you? If youre over 6', people trying to sit behind you are going to absolutely hate your guts. Not too much that a kid in the back seat will be able to kick the crap out of your chair because it will basically be in their lap. And forget the 4BT. They really are NVH nightmares. Sure, theyre tough motors but when no matter how much insulation you have lined the cabin with, youre still rattling inside, thats not all that attractive. They are popular in the LC world and also the most common diesel to pop up for sale.

The guy who is getting 30 mpg hwy is getting that because he is geared so high the motor is barely has to work, in a flat state I am willing to guess. His city number is low because his motor has to work very hard to get the truck moving because of said gearing.

I mentioned the cost because it is a serious consideration. The swap will cost you at least $8k, if you do the work yourself (time, motor, trans, transfer case, axles, lift to clear taller motor, etc...). It will be even more if you have someone else do the work. On 32s with bumpers and a winch, I was getting 18 mpg combined. Highway, around 22 at about 70 mph. City, about 17. Diesel is about the price of premium and although I did get better mileage than the 10 to 11 that a normal, comparably built and geared gas 60 was getting, it was not worth it. There is no perfect solution. You are going to have to deal with high teen mileage numbers no matter what you do, and it will get worse the more crap you bolt on. Trucks are big and heavy and not aerodynamic. The difference in cost of entry for a diesel truck is so much higher and fuel is so much more expensive than regular, that you will have to log some serious miles for you to break even. If you really want a diesel truck, call up Proffitts and talk to them about a complete swap. Theyll install just about any motor you want and do it in a way to make you swear it was factory. Be prepared for a serious (but worth it) price tag though.

 

[David Harris]

4BT in an XJ? How much lift are you going to run to make that fit? Also, family of 5 in an XJ? You must be joking.


Buy something already swapped, or better yet, something factory diesel. You are going to spend SO much more time and money properly swapping in all the required pieces for a diesel than just buying something factory. I would avoid a 4BT anything. They always seem to pop up for sale than any other swapped in motors. There must be a reason for it. Also, around town, maybe 20 mpg. Maybe, but I wouldnt hold my breath for anything more. You can get a 4th generation 4Runner that gets 17 and will run on regular. By the time you do the math, a diesel might net you a few extra miles per gallon but the added cost of fuel and the added cost of a swap means youre in the hole.

Best advice is already here: go buy a Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD.

Will second everything said here about the 4BT, plus add that they are extremely loud, vibrating and overall crude motors made for tractors and commercial vehicles. I had the big brother Cummins 6BT in a Dodge truck, which is smoother than the 4BT, and the loudness of that motor pretty much drowned everything out inside except at cruise speed, and could be heard blocks away. It was all stock too. . .

David

 

[David Harris]

Please people, stop telling him that for a family of 5, an XJ is his best bet.

I've owned three XJ's and found them to be pretty tight inside and uncomfortable with 4-5 passengers.

 

[reece146]

Yeah, we hate minivans too...

We've thought about having between 3-5 kids. She comes from a family of 6, and I from a family of 8. After the next kid it'll depend on how many more we have =) Ideally I'd like at least three.

Reading this thread http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/44152-Overland-Camping-Vehicle-for-Family-of-6/page4 to get some more ideas/options.

Pay attention to what Nay says. He was heavily into XJs before he had more kids.

Fuel economy is really the last factor to be using to make a decision on which truck to use in ths manner, particularly in the North American market. Gas is not that expensive, really, it's not.

 

[Viggen]

I've owned three XJ's and found them to be pretty tight inside and uncomfortable with 4-5 passengers.

My point exactly. Its tight for 3 people. There is next to no room in the back seat.

 

[Route55]

O.K., to address a few things here, the 97-01 XJ platform was much stiffer, and the floor bracing problems were all but eliminated. This last series of XJ seems to be holding up much better than it's ancestors, although they still are rust prone.

X3 on the Excursion if you are serious about having lots of kids. They are built on full frames, have solid axles, and come with some stout parts.

My wife and I were afraid to have more than two kids. They outnumber you then

 

[FellowTraveler]

Why swap?

Look for govt surplus 1999 K2500 Suburban w/6.5 turbo diesel built MAY 1999 or newer it will have the enhanced Navstar block.

 

[reece146]

^Do that!

Start with a civie version for the nice interior - or is the modern military equip not as spartan as the old SFA Blazers and stuff?

 

[Buliwyf]

It's going to be allot easier to fix a Excursion into something that "looks good" than it is to build an XJ into something it's not. Bumpers, trim molding removal, black wheels, fender flares, and it'll start looking a lot less like a soccar Mom truck. GMC Suburbans are available in diesels as well if that fits your tastes. Allthough, I have no idea how anyone could think that a shoebox XJ was good looking?:smilies27

But let's take a look at what it'll take to get the A or B series into an XJ:
-custom oil pan
-heavy springs
-a serious lift kit to get clearance, can't body lift an XJ
-heavy sway bars
-Dana 60 front axle swap, minus well get a 60 for the rear as well
-Ax15 to Cummins transmission adapter
-ear plugs
-full roll cage/tube frame to strengthen the chassis
-a divorce
-gears
-custom exhaust work
-brake master cylinder that matches the brakes on the Dana 60 axles
-wheels that fit the 60's
-tires that can handle all this extra weight
-more ear plugs
-radiator work
-possibly an electric fan
-lots of cutting and welding
-engine mounts


...and so much more. Not worth putting that kind of money into a $4000 XJ, one of the worst large familly vehicles out there. Run it as is, when you out grow it (more than 1 kid), send it to the scrap yard and get a better truck.

People constantly use fuel economy as an excuse to buy new cars, but the depreciation on a new car kills any money savings from fuel economy. Unless your towing 10,000+ pounds, fuel economy isn't really a selling point of diesel engines anymore. Diesels are plain more expensive in the long run.

Even after the diesel swap, you still can't expect more than 20mpg with an Expedition Portal load out and decent tires.

 

[Viggen]

Even after the diesel swap, you still can't expect more than 20mpg with an Expedition Portal load out and decent tires.

Reality check:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/excursion/diesel v8

Stock, the highest I found was 16 or 17. Add bigger tires (more weight), bumpers (more weight), winch (more weight), gear (more weight), and people (more weight) and youre mileage will not get any better.


I dont know why the OP would need something the size of a bus to haul 2 or 3 kids around.

 

[Bdiddy11]

Started looking at the Suzuki XL-7. Its got a third row and gets comparable mileage to the XJ. Stock it isn't as appealing but looking at some pics with a small lift and tires it isn't to shabby. we'd either have to go for two rigs or possibly the xl7. My wife loathes burbans and excursions.

Be sweet if dreams could come true and the perfect mpg large family expedition rig was produced