Diesel for overlanding- are you happy with the choice?

[Dalko43]

Heres some .02 if you haven't made a decision.

If I can make 2 complaints about full timing with a diesel, it's noise and weight. Noise because, well, I'm already down by one ear, and have an older 7.3. So cruising around with the window down isn't really a thing. People turn around when I'm still a mile off... It does get frustrating. Weight is another consideration. I'm pretty heavy all the time. 8K now, but will be 10K easily with my future plans. That does limit you based on road surface and soil type, or road conditions (ice/snow). Lighter is usually better. Being a Jeep guy I'm sure you already know that. But aside form those things, I would still do diesel again (even if I had to convert an older SUV). This is simply because diesel gives you one huge potential option gass doesn't. Diesel heaters (for cold environments).

....

For another bit of info, my dad has had for a year (and 20K some miles) a 2018 Ram diesel. He loves it, even though its frustrating that the dome lights can be operated 20 different ways... If you are only considering new rids, personally I would not go diesel.

Personally, I see newer diesels as the way to go because of the noise and weight issue inherent to diesels. The newer diesels are much more refined and easier to live with than the older ones, even those from 10-15 years ago (no offense to your 7.3l which has a decent reputation nonetheless). The newer diesels (at least those in the 3/4 tons) weigh just as much as the older ones, but they produce higher torque and horsepower and so can motivate a similarly sized truck much more easily.

The weight of a diesel offroad is turned into a bigger deal than it needs to be. The Aussie's use plenty of heavy diesels offroad to great effect...tire pressure and line selection are important. More to the point, unless the OP is thinking about hitting up Rubicon-like trails on a weekly basis, he is going to be hard-pressed to find an overland route in North America where a diesel struggles but gasoline variant gets through fine. Most overlanding in North America takes place on old logging/mining roads...diesel trucks can get through most of them just fine as long as the driver isn't an idiot.

The only reason the OP should consider getting an older diesel is if he plans to travel through Central and South America, where fuel quality and DEF supplies might be an issue. Otherwise, the older diesels are getting well worn and used at this point...it's tough to find one that hasn't been abused or tuned by some idiot.

 

[Chorky]

Personally, I see newer diesels as the way to go because of the noise and weight issue inherent to diesels. The newer diesels are much more refined and easier to live with than the older ones, even those from 10-15 years ago (no offense to your 7.3l which has a decent reputation nonetheless). The newer diesels (at least those in the 3/4 tons) weigh just as much as the older ones, but they produce higher torque and horsepower and so can motivate a similarly sized truck much more easily.

The weight of a diesel offroad is turned into a bigger deal than it needs to be. The Aussie's use plenty of heavy diesels offroad to great effect...tire pressure and line selection are important. More to the point, unless the OP is thinking about hitting up Rubicon-like trails on a weekly basis, he is going to be hard-pressed to find an overland route in North America where a diesel struggles but gasoline variant gets through fine. Most overlanding in North America takes place on old logging/mining roads...diesel trucks can get through most of them just fine as long as the driver isn't an idiot.

The only reason the OP should consider getting an older diesel is if he plans to travel through Central and South America, where fuel quality and DEF supplies might be an issue. Otherwise, the older diesels are getting well worn and used at this point...it's tough to find one that hasn't been abused or tuned by some idiot.

The noise 'issue' certainly is one to be considerate about. My dad's truck is so freaking quiet, it's awesome! But...personally, I would not want to deal with potential issues with all those electronics. Also, in some situations, having high torque may not be a good thing if one is not, er… experienced in off road driving. Case in point, lots of torque + slick mud + lack of experience to control the go pedal = being more stuck. But I do agree with you that in most cases, for the average person, heavy trucks don't necessarily mean much because most people stay on quality roads, even logging roads.

I would think that something more important to the discussion of diesel vs. gas, would be if the OP needs a truck, or if a SUV style rig would be better. Does the OP tow a big heavy trailer? Diesel all the way (my opinion). Does the OP just go tent camping, or have a small >5,000# trailer, then SUV would suffice and still give good comfort. It does seem they want a truck just because, which is totally fine reasoning I think. After all, why spend so much $$$ on something your not happy with.

Final thought here - in my past I, on several occasions, got a vehicle I knew was the 'responsible' choice due to mileage, cost, etc, etc... I was always unhappy. Personally, I am happier having a higher 'expense' but knowing I'm in a vehicle(s) I enjoy! Not miles per gallon, but smiles per mile!

 

[Dalko43]

The noise 'issue' certainly is one to be considerate about. My dad's truck is so freaking quiet, it's awesome! But...personally, I would not want to deal with potential issues with all those electronics. Also, in some situations, having high torque may not be a good thing if one is not, er… experienced in off road driving. Case in point, lots of torque + slick mud + lack of experience to control the go pedal = being more stuck. But I do agree with you that in most cases, for the average person, heavy trucks don't necessarily mean much because most people stay on quality roads, even logging roads.

I guess we have a skewed view here in North America, but pretty much everywhere else diesel engines are heavily preferred for offroading because of their torque. Here we are used to thinking of Ford Super Duties or Ram 2500's with tremendously powerful and torquey engines; and I definitely agree those types of vehicles require some forethought and planning if they're going to be used for technical offroading, but then again so will a Ram Power Wagon, which pretty much has the same-sized footprint, albeit a little lighter.

If we're talking mud bogging or crawling up and down black diamond jeep trails, yeah I agree a 3/4 ton diesel might be too much truck, or at the very least a PITA to get through certain sections. But a Duramax Colorado or 2.8l Cummins-swapped jeep or Toyota would likely excel at that kind of terrain. I don't think it makes sense to categorically say engine type A is no good for offroading or engine B is the only type to be used...too many variables in terms of size, weight, torque delivery, ect.

Final thought here - in my past I, on several occasions, got a vehicle I knew was the 'responsible' choice due to mileage, cost, etc, etc... I was always unhappy. Personally, I am happier having a higher 'expense' but knowing I'm in a vehicle(s) I enjoy! Not miles per gallon, but smiles per mile!

I agree with that. Some people buy a Ford Raptor to serve as a DD; they may never take it offroad and its likely a complete overkill for the pavement duties it sees, but if it brings enjoyment to those owners, then that's a logical enough reason justification in my book. Same principle for owning diesel pickups, modified jeeps, sportscars, or really any vehicle that isn't an economy commuter.

 

[Chorky]

I guess we have a skewed view here in North America, but pretty much everywhere else diesel engines are

If only we could have some of the euro or aussie rigs over here...

 

[Hackopotomus]

Funny to read people say that you don't need a diesel. Hell, I don't need half the crap I have but I sure like having it! ?

I have a 2008 Chevy Duramax, CST 6" lift on 35's, DPF delete and tuned, air bags with on board compressor, Banks engine brake, FASS lift pump, 52 gallon fuel tank, and I absolutely love it! It has tons of power and if I keep the speeds around 65 I can go almost 1,000 miles between fill ups.

The main reason I run diesels is I do occasional heavy tows (10K+) but after driving them I'll never do a gas truck again. I don't care if the overall ownership cost is higher, to me having the power and especially the torque is worth it. I have high HP hot rods too so I'm not penny pinching when it comes to my vehicles.

I use mine for "overlanding" (we used to just call it 4 wheeling and camping!) and it works very well for me. I have a standard camper shell on the back now but am trying to decide to go with a pop up, larger shell or maybe flatbed with custom camper. I want something with a little more room but not too big. Another advantage of the diesel is not having to be overly concerned about a larger camper's extra weight or wind drag if it sticks up above the cab.

I suppose the diesel makes a little more noise than a gasser but the Duramax is not as noisy as a Cummins or the old 7.3s. I think all the newer ones are much quieter. Also, when climbing a big long grade the gas truck is going to kick down to a lower gear and you're going to be winding it out to 4K RPMs or so and it will make a lot more noise then while the diesel will just chug along.

I'm retired so I don't really daily a vehicle but even though I have 6 cars/trucks, the Duramax is usually what I drive when running errands and stuff. Also for any long trips even if they don't involve camping.

 

[SSF556]

i have a diesel tractor, diesel grand cherokee, and a diesel ram 3500. I am happy!

 

[SSF556]

I have had both.. diesel gains an advantage when you get above about 11000-12000 gvwr... below that I prefer the gasser

1. Much quieter (this is a big deal on a slow backroad with the windows down)
2. Can add plenty of power with a built on supercharger

4 . No freezing of diesel (yes I have frozen them)
5. Your bladder is likely smaller than the range of either truck

It is a matter of gvwr.. if you must have it for heavy hauling, then you need it, if not, it is a waste of money and they are pigs compared to the refined elegance of a smooth gasser...

I think Starbucks is a waste of money

 

[SSF556]

Funny to read people say that you don't need a diesel. Hell, I don't need half the crap I have but I sure like having it! ?

I have a 2008 Chevy Duramax, CST 6" lift on 35's, DPF delete and tuned, air bags with on board compressor, Banks engine brake, FASS lift pump, 52 gallon fuel tank, and I absolutely love it! It has tons of power and if I keep the speeds around 65 I can go almost 1,000 miles between fill ups.

The main reason I run diesels is I do occasional heavy tows (10K+) but after driving them I'll never do a gas truck again. I don't care if the overall ownership cost is higher, to me having the power and especially the torque is worth it. I have high HP hot rods too so I'm not penny pinching when it comes to my vehicles.

I use mine for "overlanding" (we used to just call it 4 wheeling and camping!) and it works very well for me. I have a standard camper shell on the back now but am trying to decide to go with a pop up, larger shell or maybe flatbed with custom camper. I want something with a little more room but not too big. Another advantage of the diesel is not having to be overly concerned about a larger camper's extra weight or wind drag if it sticks up above the cab.

I suppose the diesel makes a little more noise than a gasser but the Duramax is not as noisy as a Cummins or the old 7.3s. I think all the newer ones are much quieter. Also, when climbing a big long grade the gas truck is going to kick down to a lower gear and you're going to be winding it out to 4K RPMs or so and it will make a lot more noise then while the diesel will just chug along.

I'm retired so I don't really daily a vehicle but even though I have 6 cars/trucks, the Duramax is usually what I drive when running errands and stuff. Also for any long trips even if they don't involve camping.

View attachment 517272View attachment 517273

Great looking truck!

 

[Andy Douglass]

I have put 8k miles on my first diesel, 2018 Ram 2500. We ran our loaded FWC Hawk on my wife's 1500 with air bags and a sway bar, and it was ok. But we did not want to drive that truck into the ground and we were definitely over GVWR by a little bit, and had a hot brake incident on a decent incline. I never wanted a diesel because I like quiet vehicles. But I found that 2500s with a gas motor were nonexistent on the dealer lots. Had family that sells Ram, so I wasn't going to shell out for an ordered gas Ram when I could get a great price on a diesel. It was a compromise based on the great price we got.

I love the truck. Love the 3/4 ton suspension and love the diesel motor. The bed settles about 1/2" when I drop the 1700 pound Hawk on it. The motor doesn't even notice it. Can you get away with an overweight camper on a 1/2? Yes, but we didn't want to get away with anything, wanted reliability and less worry, and we are happy to pay for it.

As for the availability of diesel, I wonder if it will be more widely available. I feel like there are a lot more diesels on the road now, at least in my area. When I was shopping for the new truck, there were only diesel 2500s available on all the dealer lots in my county, and I see them everywhere. I think the gas stations will slowly need to accommodate more diesel as they adjust to the quantity of diesels on the road.

 

[Dalko43]

If only we could have some of the euro or aussie rigs over here...

2.8L "Duramax" is really a VM Motori engine that is widely used in European vehicles, to include the Jeep. The 2.8l Cummins crate engine is very similar in nature to the diesels the Japanese put in their midsized ute's (Hilux, Navara, Triton).

I have had both.. diesel gains an advantage when you get above about 11000-12000 gvwr... below that I prefer the gasser

1. Much quieter (this is a big deal on a slow backroad with the windows down)
2. Can add plenty of power with a built on supercharger

4 . No freezing of diesel (yes I have frozen them)
5. Your bladder is likely smaller than the range of either truck

It is a matter of gvwr.. if you must have it for heavy hauling, then you need it, if not, it is a waste of money and they are pigs compared to the refined elegance of a smooth gasser...

So buying a diesel is a "waste" of money for any vehicle under 11klbs gvwr, but adding a non-OEM supercharger to a vehicle isn't? Seems to me that if you're really focused on saving your money, or at least spending it wisely, you should get a factory-configured engine/truck that suits your needs and wants, rather than spending all kinds of money, and assuming all kinds of risk, modifying the OEM's engineering with massive horsepower increases.

The GVWR limitations seem arbitrary; you can get pretty much buy an engine (either diesel or gasoline) that is well-suited to a specific range of GVWR requirements. You're not limited to buying a 900-1000lb-ft diesel engine nowadays, as there are options for smaller, more efficient and more practical diesel engines.

And as for modern diesels being unrefined compared to modern gassers, I'm not sure what your basis for comparison is. Arguably, there is a hell of a lot more engineering and innovation that went into most of the modern diesels compared to what went into those pushrod gasser v8's that are still widely used by OEM's.

 

[Regcabguy]

When I'd go offroad in my prior F-250 gasser the engine would gulp gasoline. My pre-emissions 5.9 '07 is very quiet,gobs of low end power and sips fuel off highway.
The Dodge shop I use has heaps of 4th gens coming in for routine service and the owners seem very pleased.

 

[Dalko43]

Everyone is allowed to spend their money how they like.. I cherish quiet and not freezing fuel in Montana winters.. so unless you absolutely need diesel for hauling, it is a bad idea.. if you plan on winter camping in really cold places, like -60 where I live.. unless you must have a diesel for payload... you are better off with gas... you are also better off having your camping batteries inside the heated area.. if you want them to work...

If you want a diesel.. go buy one and know in extreme cold, even with anti gel forumula and seasonal fuel you can easily gel up and your diesel hydronic heater and engine will stope running.. I have had it happen.. at those temps.. in the way out.. is and was a life threatening event.

The op asked questions.. I am sharing my personal experience... if you don’t like it.. maybe you are only 3 seasons...ok.. a supercharged gasser will produce a ton of power and still not freeze and cost less in maintenance.. if money doesn’t matter, get what is functional.. diesels are great for the right job... if you have a hard on for them.. go ahead

Diesel trucks are used throughout the world, including in places where the temperatures get well below freezing. Last time I was driving up the Datlon, I saw diesel's all over the place towing and hauling equipment. The operators and the OEM's have figured out a way for them to work up there...and quite honestly, at a certain temperature just about any vehicle (gasoline or diesel) is going to have trouble starting up without a heater cord.

If you've had bad experiences with them, oh well...a lot of other people have done just fine with them. The newer diesels fare a lot better in the cold than do the older ones...so maybe you have a skewed view on the topic.

 

[IdaSHO]

Something to note, that I dont think has been touched on, it the biggest reason why diesels typically return better MPG.

BTU per gallon

Diesel has always been a more energy dense fuel, with a higher BTU per gallon.
But things get a bit dicey when we start talking about ULSD, winter blend diesel, and bio-blend diesel.

#2 ULSD typically runs 128-138kbtu
Winter blend typically runs 120-130kbtu
Biodiesel can be all over the place, depending upon the mix.

Ive run all three, and the fuel MPG and power hit are substantial.

FYI, BTU rating for gasoline runs right about 125kbtu

Just another reason to reconsider a diesel IMO.

People seem to run with their summer highway MPG as average.
If you were to run year round (as we do) you would see a much clearer picture.

I've seen as much as 6MPG hit running winter blend diesel.
Even worse running bio-blend.

Never mind the cold weather issues with #2 ULSD It can/will gel on you well above zero degrees F.
So if you are traveling from south to north, be advised.... Pretty easy to fuel up with #2, then proceed to cold country and have problems.

 

[GreggNY]

OP here. This thread has gone way beyond what I expected- in a good way. There has been a ton of good info on running a diesel, and some that I honestly didn't consider. I still think it would be a good fit for me but some things definitely need to be thought about. Thanks again for the wealth of info and glad things haven't got messy with the mixed views!

 

[Dalko43]

Something to note, that I dont think has been touched on, it the biggest reason why diesels typically return better MPG.

BTU per gallon

Diesel has always been a more energy dense fuel, with a higher BTU per gallon.
But things get a bit dicey when we start talking about ULSD, winter blend diesel, and bio-blend diesel.

#2 ULSD typically runs 128-138kbtu
Winter blend typically runs 120-130kbtu
Biodiesel can be all over the place, depending upon the mix.

Ive run all three, and the fuel MPG and power hit are substantial.

FYI, BTU rating for gasoline runs right about 125kbtu

Just another reason to reconsider a diesel IMO.

People seem to run with their summer highway MPG as average.
If you were to run year round (as we do) you would see a much clearer picture.

I've seen as much as 6MPG hit running winter blend diesel.
Even worse running bio-blend.

Never mind the cold weather issues with #2 ULSD It can/will gel on you well above zero degrees F.
So if you are traveling from south to north, be advised.... Pretty easy to fuel up with #2, then proceed to cold country and have problems.

Everyone sees an efficiency hit in cold-weather conditions...that issue isn't exclusive to diesels. I've seen gasoline v6's go from a summer average of 17-18mpg to a winter average of 12-13mpg.

There are certain types of diesel which have lower CFPP's than others. #2 ULSD is generally used in temperate climates or during the warmer seasons. For colder climates and seasons, stations will offer #1 ULSD which has a lower CFPP (~ -47F). As well, the newer engines have much more robust cold start systems than do the older ones.

Cold weather is a planning factor for diesel ownership, but I don't see any point in trying to use that as a scare tactic to ward off potential owners....plenty of people have been using diesels in northern climates for years without any problems.