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Csaba Csebe wrote a good editorial a few months ago about the supply & demand of diesel in Car & Driver. Basically, if more diesel cars sell, the price will go up. We loose no matter what.
Here's a good summary from another thread that sums up the diesel situation for TLC.....
- CARB used to allow a vehicle '85 and older to be converted to diesel if that manufacturer equipped the model with a diesel option. TLC was able to do conversions under the guideline that while Toyota never sold the LC in the US with a diesel, they did offer it in other countries. Last year, the local CARB rep said that no longer qualified. Jonathan used his many relationships in Sacramento to get an exemption for TLC to continue doing the diesel conversions as they are very eco friendly, up to 100% biofuel compatible. I don't know if others can get a conversion through CARB. I just know that TLC can.
- The 2.8 is a great little motor, as many of you have mentioned. TLC chose to go with this motor for several reasons. Primarily, it can be purchased as a new crate motor. Second was that it uses a rotary mechanical fuel pump so there are no electronics to worry about. And thirdly, because Toyota will not sell crate motors and stalled their US diesel program as well.
- The 2.8 is manufactured by MWM International in Brazil. It is sold globally and used extensively in South America and Europe. Since MWM began building their 3.0 motor, they now do limited production runs of the 2.8. The 3.0 uses common rail injection with piezo electric injectors. Much better system but the electronics are the issue. Simens manufactures the ECM for them and a custom base map for the ECM runs about $50K which is what it will take to make one for a conversion vehicle. MWM's U.S. rep is more focused on developing their farm equipment market potential so the 2.8 and 3.0 have to be sourced in Europe. TLC has a 3.0 landing in a few weeks and will begin working on the electronics conversion but so far, the MWM rep and Simens rep are very unwilling to give up the base map for tweaking until they see a BIG check.
- Most of the soft parts for the 2.8 are available in the U.S. TLC is beginning to stock them and they are also available at most VW dealers as they are common parts, e.g. filters, etc. Also, most any diesel mechanic can do service on the motor since it is so basic. It uses a variable vane Garrett turbo and most parts are Bosch.
- Yes, Advance Adapters makes the adapter. TLC has the learning curve behind them to add to the advice that goes with the parts purchase though and the same retail price as AA. TLC actually shares thier info with them so they can use it as well. The H55 is a nicer tranny behind the 2.8 as it seems to be smoother. The NV4500 is noisier and mainshaft design allows the engine to transfer more vibrations. TLC is also going to be looking into the automatic tranny but initial conversations with AA about it are not positive. The Autos made for the 2.8 and 3.0 are so rare in the U.S. that it doesn't make sense to import them and the T-case adapter sales volume doesn't justify the development cost.
- Also, if you do the conversion make sure to use low gears in the axles as high gears, e.g. 3.73:1, will have the engine straining in a lower power band and fuel milage suffers. And don't forget to use an inter-cooler. Running the 2.8 without one will damage the motor.
- Yes, the LR guys have been doing the conversions with this motor for years, mostly in Europe. Unfortunately, most of the additional parts needed for the conversion (radiator, inter-cooler, etc.) are not compatible with fitment-wise with LC's. TLC is going to offer a conversion kit but is still working on inking a deal with MWM that will provide direct access and hence cheaper shipping. Until the kit is available, if someone buys a diesel, TLC can put together a kit to go with the purchase.
- One of the benefits to the 2.8 motor is the weight and size. It fits easily and doesn't add excess weight. That's nice when you're doing the conversion.
Sorry to be so lengthly in my comments. Chris shared the thread with me and it seemed like there were allot of questions out there. Hope that helps.
Here's a good summary from another thread that sums up the diesel situation for TLC.....
- CARB used to allow a vehicle '85 and older to be converted to diesel if that manufacturer equipped the model with a diesel option. TLC was able to do conversions under the guideline that while Toyota never sold the LC in the US with a diesel, they did offer it in other countries. Last year, the local CARB rep said that no longer qualified. Jonathan used his many relationships in Sacramento to get an exemption for TLC to continue doing the diesel conversions as they are very eco friendly, up to 100% biofuel compatible. I don't know if others can get a conversion through CARB. I just know that TLC can.
- The 2.8 is a great little motor, as many of you have mentioned. TLC chose to go with this motor for several reasons. Primarily, it can be purchased as a new crate motor. Second was that it uses a rotary mechanical fuel pump so there are no electronics to worry about. And thirdly, because Toyota will not sell crate motors and stalled their US diesel program as well.
- The 2.8 is manufactured by MWM International in Brazil. It is sold globally and used extensively in South America and Europe. Since MWM began building their 3.0 motor, they now do limited production runs of the 2.8. The 3.0 uses common rail injection with piezo electric injectors. Much better system but the electronics are the issue. Simens manufactures the ECM for them and a custom base map for the ECM runs about $50K which is what it will take to make one for a conversion vehicle. MWM's U.S. rep is more focused on developing their farm equipment market potential so the 2.8 and 3.0 have to be sourced in Europe. TLC has a 3.0 landing in a few weeks and will begin working on the electronics conversion but so far, the MWM rep and Simens rep are very unwilling to give up the base map for tweaking until they see a BIG check.
- Most of the soft parts for the 2.8 are available in the U.S. TLC is beginning to stock them and they are also available at most VW dealers as they are common parts, e.g. filters, etc. Also, most any diesel mechanic can do service on the motor since it is so basic. It uses a variable vane Garrett turbo and most parts are Bosch.
- Yes, Advance Adapters makes the adapter. TLC has the learning curve behind them to add to the advice that goes with the parts purchase though and the same retail price as AA. TLC actually shares thier info with them so they can use it as well. The H55 is a nicer tranny behind the 2.8 as it seems to be smoother. The NV4500 is noisier and mainshaft design allows the engine to transfer more vibrations. TLC is also going to be looking into the automatic tranny but initial conversations with AA about it are not positive. The Autos made for the 2.8 and 3.0 are so rare in the U.S. that it doesn't make sense to import them and the T-case adapter sales volume doesn't justify the development cost.
- Also, if you do the conversion make sure to use low gears in the axles as high gears, e.g. 3.73:1, will have the engine straining in a lower power band and fuel milage suffers. And don't forget to use an inter-cooler. Running the 2.8 without one will damage the motor.
- Yes, the LR guys have been doing the conversions with this motor for years, mostly in Europe. Unfortunately, most of the additional parts needed for the conversion (radiator, inter-cooler, etc.) are not compatible with fitment-wise with LC's. TLC is going to offer a conversion kit but is still working on inking a deal with MWM that will provide direct access and hence cheaper shipping. Until the kit is available, if someone buys a diesel, TLC can put together a kit to go with the purchase.
- One of the benefits to the 2.8 motor is the weight and size. It fits easily and doesn't add excess weight. That's nice when you're doing the conversion.
Sorry to be so lengthly in my comments. Chris shared the thread with me and it seemed like there were allot of questions out there. Hope that helps.
