danfromsyr
Adventurer
american's can barely operate the gas & the brake.
give them a 3rd pedal and we'll all be stuck in traffic.
give them a 3rd pedal and we'll all be stuck in traffic.
Diesel vs Gasoline
- Thread starter billiebob
- Start date
calicamper
Expedition Leader
Yup. A buddy at a subaru dealer started seeing brand new WRXs with less than 20k on them coming in with torched clutches about 15yrs ago. Talking like 2 a month or more. His Uncle worked at the VW dealer said they see the same thing.
My last subaru manual went 150,000 miles with lots of towing and lived on a steep street in San Francisco. Clutch still had 15% on it when the release bearing started getting noisy.
Last week in slow creeping traffic I could smell a Subaru clutch burning up. I found it 4 cars ahead of me Forester the guy was just dragging the clutch to keep his speed while on a hill. It was smoking pretty good by the time I passed him in the other lane. Most people today shouldn’t buy manuals period. The concept in how they work and how you use them is beyond their scope of thought.
billiebob
Well-known member
Yes but they only beat the Fuller transmissions because drivers are not focused. I love to focus on performance. Or the Browning 5&4 challenge....... this girl is awesome eh.
lol, I said beats everything except a 13+ speed Fuller, which do have a better ratio spread than even a Ford 10 spd auto.
Of course, in real life even a computer autoshift can't match the shifting speed of a planetary auto.
But I get your point, they're more fun and that girl is awesome!
Buliwyf
Viking with a Hammer
And people never take into account when the new semi-auto's screw up. I'm in no hurry, so the extra speed of the auto, doesn't make up for it selecting the wrong gear for a hill. And line haul truck drivers have every inch of their route memorized, so.....
Give an 18 speed a better user interface, and let's compare. Maybe paddle shifter.
Lolz, but Semi's and motorcycles are still pretty popular, and nearly all manual.
Jeeps and Mustangs are still more fun with manuals. Even if the auto is superior in every other way.
Give an 18 speed a better user interface, and let's compare. Maybe paddle shifter.
Lolz, but Semi's and motorcycles are still pretty popular, and nearly all manual.
Jeeps and Mustangs are still more fun with manuals. Even if the auto is superior in every other way.
The move to auto-shifts is due to the change in trucking culture - gone are owner ops who took pride in their equipment and skill, and in are big corporate funded haul lines (looking at you, Swift) that hire cheap labour.
Studies have shown with near-minimum wage fleet drivers, manuals can be more unreliable and costly, due to driver abuse - whether on purpose or lack of skill / experience.
Back on topic - the modern 8 spd ZF / 10 spd GM Ford transmission will perform superior to any manual available to the light truck market, say a G56. The G56 is neither strong enough, nor has the gear spacing advantage. It has a deep 1st because it needs it without a converter. The 4.7:1 1 gear ratios of the 8/10 spds, with a converter, will allow much better grade start-ability than a G56. Followed by a lightning quick shift to 2nd, while the G56 shifts relatively slow, with a near-50% drop in rpm to 2nd.
This is what gives modern gas a big advantage over older gas rigs.
Studies have shown with near-minimum wage fleet drivers, manuals can be more unreliable and costly, due to driver abuse - whether on purpose or lack of skill / experience.
Back on topic - the modern 8 spd ZF / 10 spd GM Ford transmission will perform superior to any manual available to the light truck market, say a G56. The G56 is neither strong enough, nor has the gear spacing advantage. It has a deep 1st because it needs it without a converter. The 4.7:1 1 gear ratios of the 8/10 spds, with a converter, will allow much better grade start-ability than a G56. Followed by a lightning quick shift to 2nd, while the G56 shifts relatively slow, with a near-50% drop in rpm to 2nd.
This is what gives modern gas a big advantage over older gas rigs.
plumber mike
Adventurer
It makes sense in a fleet setting to have the computer have ultimate control rather than the driver. It’s also what makes the new stuff that much less appealing for a personal vehicle.
vintageracer
To Infinity and Beyond!
UPS local delivery trucks in the Nashville market are all GAS powered and have been for a number of years.
Nice! Didn't know you're in BC.
My dream lottery overlander would by one our Pacific, built right here in North Van, back when we, you know, built things...
Rbertalotto
Explorer
Absolutely the worse tow vehicle I ever drove! 2005 GMC PU with the 5.3 and 4spd auto. Towed my 3000# motorcycle trailer from Massachusetts to Montana. Barely could get up the western hills while blowing its brains out at 4000rpm. Terrible vehicle.
The day I got home I traded it for a 2006 Dodge diesel. Best truck I ever owned. Pulled 13,000 pound trailer like it wasn't there!
Traded it last year with 225,000 miles for a new RAM 2500 6.4L Hemi. GREAT truck! Gas motors and 6+ speed transmissions have come a long way in the past ten years.
YnotDIY
New member
Surprised no one has brought up Veg Oil or Bio-Diesel as an alternative fuel sources for Diesel engines. Cheep to make and even cheeper if you can find a supplier that will GIVE YOU FREE VEG OIL, not to difficult to do.
Just bought a 94 Diesel F350 4x4 so I'm not winning any weight competitions, but what drew me to a diesel and ultimately why I decided to purchase one was the possibility of using and "manufacturing" veg-oil or biodiesel. Although this isn't a reliable fuel source on the road, unless you're willing to do some leg work and to find sources, then if you find sources it ultimately will regulate where you can go. Not to big of a deal for me, just fill up with diesel when I need to and get veg oil whenever I can. This can be very cost effective if done correctly. Making bio-diesel has been said to cost $1.00/gallon....
I like the possibility of Bio-fuels as an alternative to gas, America is hooked on gas. Sounds like ya'll are too
bahahahaha! Also cool to meet people who are into alternative fuel sources and connecting with people on the road who can support your adventures.
Just bought a 94 Diesel F350 4x4 so I'm not winning any weight competitions, but what drew me to a diesel and ultimately why I decided to purchase one was the possibility of using and "manufacturing" veg-oil or biodiesel. Although this isn't a reliable fuel source on the road, unless you're willing to do some leg work and to find sources, then if you find sources it ultimately will regulate where you can go. Not to big of a deal for me, just fill up with diesel when I need to and get veg oil whenever I can. This can be very cost effective if done correctly. Making bio-diesel has been said to cost $1.00/gallon....
I like the possibility of Bio-fuels as an alternative to gas, America is hooked on gas. Sounds like ya'll are too
bahahahaha! Also cool to meet people who are into alternative fuel sources and connecting with people on the road who can support your adventures.
1stDeuce
Explorer
I love my '06 Duramax, which has 280k on it. It has done everything I've ever asked it to, and usually has no problem holding the speed limit while doing so. I'd drive it to Tierra Del Fuego tomorrow with no concerns. I also have two 6.0L gassers, both with around 200k miles, and I'd do the same with them. Modern engines just don't die if you take care of them reasonably well. Unfortunately, modern diesel engines are terribly expensive and complicated beasts compared to modern gas engines, so as the OP pointed out, there's the initial surcharge, plus the long term maintenance costs, which will likely be higher if you run a truck for a couple decades like some of us do. This is less of a concern in the rust belt, or if you trade off vehicles every 5 years or so.
I see lots of people talking about the torque of a diesel. Yeah, I get it. But if I was buying a newer truck right now, I'd be looking for a gas turbo. I live at 7000', and I have to climb over 9000' twice just getting to the nearest Home Depot. Non-turbo engines, even with more transmission speeds, just struggle at altitude. IMO, Diesel isn't what makes the difference, it's the forced induction. When you consider that modern gas engines are DI, with no engine vacuum to overcome in normal driving, the efficiency advantage with a diesel is pretty slim. (Much of diesel's mechanical efficiency advantage was due to lower pumping losses because they operate with no engine vacuum, the rest because diesel fuel does have a bit more heat energy in it...)
Ford has both full and mid sized trucks available with gas turbos, and GM is behind with only a full size. I expect when the Dmax in the Colorado/Canyon goes away, some sort of gas turbo will replace it, and it'll be awesome. (GM: Why no 2.7L gas turbo in the dmax???) Ram is rumored to be releasing a 1500 gas turbo I-6 in 2021, and I'm betting it'll be smooth as silk, and probably a real ripper, and it'll probably run 500k miles with regular oil changes.
Just my $0.02 in this $1,000,000 thread...
I see lots of people talking about the torque of a diesel. Yeah, I get it. But if I was buying a newer truck right now, I'd be looking for a gas turbo. I live at 7000', and I have to climb over 9000' twice just getting to the nearest Home Depot. Non-turbo engines, even with more transmission speeds, just struggle at altitude. IMO, Diesel isn't what makes the difference, it's the forced induction. When you consider that modern gas engines are DI, with no engine vacuum to overcome in normal driving, the efficiency advantage with a diesel is pretty slim. (Much of diesel's mechanical efficiency advantage was due to lower pumping losses because they operate with no engine vacuum, the rest because diesel fuel does have a bit more heat energy in it...)
Ford has both full and mid sized trucks available with gas turbos, and GM is behind with only a full size. I expect when the Dmax in the Colorado/Canyon goes away, some sort of gas turbo will replace it, and it'll be awesome. (GM: Why no 2.7L gas turbo in the dmax???) Ram is rumored to be releasing a 1500 gas turbo I-6 in 2021, and I'm betting it'll be smooth as silk, and probably a real ripper, and it'll probably run 500k miles with regular oil changes.
Just my $0.02 in this $1,000,000 thread...