winkosmosis
Explorer
We'll see...Our EPA mandates also increase. It would be nice, but...
My pessimism is showing
CAFE mandates are increasing
Diesel Wrangler in 2010!
- Thread starter Life_in_4Lo
- Start date
CAFE mandates are increasing
Rustyzchopshop
New member
schmugboy
Observer
I LOVE my 2.0 TDi in our Jetta SportWagen. That thing is so much better than my dog 3.7L V6 in my JK. I broke down in early 09' (did not want to wait any longer waiting for a diesel) to buy my Rubi Unlimited and even at employee pricing (joke) I still feel sore in the pants. But if a Diesel Wrangler comes out, I may just sell my 09' and buy the new one. Dumb, I know, but I am a diesel disciple now.
AmericaOverland
Explorer
It's going to be a LONG time... LONG TIME! Unless... People ought to band together to tell the EPA to back off and repeal some of the pollution laws on the books. Vehicles have gotten to the point where the mechanics working on them need the equivalent knowledge of airframe mechanics, powerplant engineers, and avionics technicians. This has gone too far. You can't work on your own vehicles, pulling motors, rebuilding them, honing heads, and timing them. You basically need an expensive computer to program it and get it running right. This is why I went with a Scout II to try to reduce some of the dependence on so much work and increase the reliability factor by reducing the number of things that can go wrong, like safety airbags popping open on a climb or electronics going haywire.
Stephanie
Diesel Wrangler is looking less likely for USA:
"We have no plans at the moment for diesel Jeeps in North America, although one of the things I've learned in this business is to never say never..."
Michael Manley, president and chief executive officer of the Jeep brand, at the 2010 Detroit Auto Show, as quoted by Autoblog Green.
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/01/13/report-no-diesel-jeep-wranger-for-north-america/
The article says it's reasonable to assume that the old minivan V6 in the Wrangler will be replaced by Chrysler's new Pentastar 3.6L gasoline V6. The new engine offers a 33% increase in power and 11% improvement in torque (280 horsepower and 260 lb-ft), as well as 11% better fuel economy.
"We have no plans at the moment for diesel Jeeps in North America, although one of the things I've learned in this business is to never say never..."
Michael Manley, president and chief executive officer of the Jeep brand, at the 2010 Detroit Auto Show, as quoted by Autoblog Green.
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/01/13/report-no-diesel-jeep-wranger-for-north-america/
The article says it's reasonable to assume that the old minivan V6 in the Wrangler will be replaced by Chrysler's new Pentastar 3.6L gasoline V6. The new engine offers a 33% increase in power and 11% improvement in torque (280 horsepower and 260 lb-ft), as well as 11% better fuel economy.
OS-Aussie
Adventurer
Not a CRD but still better than the six sick chipmunks it has
1937Scott
New member
Not surprising Jeep is backing down from diesels in the U.S........
The Nazi--er, I mean EPA has made them all but impossible to affordably manufacuture and market in America. It's why Ford long ago had to abandon the bulletproof 7.3 Powerstroke.
I don't trust ANYTHING Jeep says until I see it at the dealership. They went far enough to build a Wrangler with the 3.0 CRD and press release it, then never produce it.
They went far enough to concept, produce, and announce the Gladiator truck, then pull-back.
The official Jeep press release at the time said, "They're marketing studies showed no viable need or interest in a Jeep truck." Re-he-eaaalllly.
So..... a Compass, Liberty, Patriot, Commander, Grand Cherokee, Wrangler, Wrangler Unlimited,and Wrangler Rubicon aren't complete SATURATION of the S.U.V. market, but they won't make the Gladiator?
No doubt, they're too broke to do it now, so back to what I said before; I'll believe it when I can test drive it.
The Nazi--er, I mean EPA has made them all but impossible to affordably manufacuture and market in America. It's why Ford long ago had to abandon the bulletproof 7.3 Powerstroke.
I don't trust ANYTHING Jeep says until I see it at the dealership. They went far enough to build a Wrangler with the 3.0 CRD and press release it, then never produce it.
They went far enough to concept, produce, and announce the Gladiator truck, then pull-back.
The official Jeep press release at the time said, "They're marketing studies showed no viable need or interest in a Jeep truck." Re-he-eaaalllly.
So..... a Compass, Liberty, Patriot, Commander, Grand Cherokee, Wrangler, Wrangler Unlimited,and Wrangler Rubicon aren't complete SATURATION of the S.U.V. market, but they won't make the Gladiator?
No doubt, they're too broke to do it now, so back to what I said before; I'll believe it when I can test drive it.
AmericaOverland
Explorer
In other words, find yourself an old jeep and have it restored. That is what I've been doing with the Scout II I'm about to get next month. It's been in restoration since March, and I'm glad it doesn't have the emissions on it and airbags in it. Less things to go wrong.
In fact, I might need to search the threads here and see what the restoration industry/network is like for our sort of vehicle. I don't have the skills to restore a vehicle, never mind have the space/tools to do it, but it has been fun/frustrating to see mine get through restoration. I'm thinking about getting a second vehicle to be my overland vehicle, just a basic vehicle for traveling through the US. I want my Scout mainly for hauling stuff and my drums, and to be able to camp out a few times a month at various state and national parks, maybe drive on well-maintained graded roads. This Scout's a keeper, and it's also a backup vehicle to my Corolla or whenever I want to drive something different. I want something that was designed to LIVE IN MUD! I'd rather look into another vehicle restoration than buy the extremely loaded-up new "cars" that are out now.
Stephanie
1937Scott
New member
Stephanie,
I agree with your perspective, airbags, frustrating vehicle selection,etc.
However, listen carefully; In 2006 I decided like you, to restore/build my 'perfect' adventure vehicle. I wanted something that could fit on a goat trail, or between large trees in the high country, but not an ATV. I wanted something I could actually drive to the mountains, then 4x4 around.
I spent 3 1/2 years and the equivalent of cash for TWO NEW JEEP RUBICONS on a project. (A 1945 complete ground-up Jeep project.) I paid a shop to do the work, and it sits in my garage a disappointment. For what I paid, it should fly through the air. Nothing works like it should, and it's going to take MORE MONEY to make it right. Infuriating, I can assure you.
So, my words of caution are this; Unless you can do the restoration/overhaul/project yourself, DON'T DO IT!!! Find a reasonable vehicle you can live with, modify it for your needs, and try to be happy.
Of course, I could be wrong.
I agree with your perspective, airbags, frustrating vehicle selection,etc.
However, listen carefully; In 2006 I decided like you, to restore/build my 'perfect' adventure vehicle. I wanted something that could fit on a goat trail, or between large trees in the high country, but not an ATV. I wanted something I could actually drive to the mountains, then 4x4 around.
I spent 3 1/2 years and the equivalent of cash for TWO NEW JEEP RUBICONS on a project. (A 1945 complete ground-up Jeep project.) I paid a shop to do the work, and it sits in my garage a disappointment. For what I paid, it should fly through the air. Nothing works like it should, and it's going to take MORE MONEY to make it right. Infuriating, I can assure you.
So, my words of caution are this; Unless you can do the restoration/overhaul/project yourself, DON'T DO IT!!! Find a reasonable vehicle you can live with, modify it for your needs, and try to be happy.
Of course, I could be wrong.
24HOURSOFNEVADA
Expedition Leader
This made me laugh. Not at you Stephanie, but in general. For there is no possible way you could have known what Scott has endured throughout the tribulations of his three and one half year build. He knows what he speaks.
AmericaOverland
Explorer
What happened, exactly? How did it take over 3 years and two new vehicles' worth of cash? What was disappointing about it?
My situation is this - I'm having a 1977 Scout II restored. I know it's not going to be a new car, but it's going to be something I ordered, the way I want it. I don't intend for this truck to be a serious off-roader. I don't want it torn up. Dirt roads would be about all I would want it to do. This is not even 4WD (yes, it has the hollow tube axle up front with no pumpkin).
It would be used like a Honda Element would be used. You can camp in it/out of it, have a roof top tent, carry a lot of stuff, but I wouldn't want to go totally off-road much at all. I'm not sure I would ever go outside of the US and maybe northern México.
Stephanie
gpwpat
Adventurer
I am disapointed that we can't get a diesel in the wrangler. I love my 2007. and doubt I could afford to upgrade. I know I couldn't but I had hoped that if they came out with the diesel, when my 3.8L finally went I would replace it with the diesel out of a new one and be able to get it legal in California. Oh well. maybe a hemi if I can ever do it and get smogged.
1937Scott I too am curious as what could happen to a 1945 Jeep that nothing works right that is a total restoration be going wrong. A 1945 jeep is so simple you can repair them with a wrench, bailing wire and duct tape. Well not really, but I have a fair amout of experiance with 1945 and older jeeps restoring for myself and for pay and can't imagine how you could drop 60K on a wwii jeep and it not work right. It must not be a restoration. To me restoration is factory fresh. The way it left the factory it should even be Olive drap for that year. You must have a rebuilt jeep with many aftermarket parts to get into those figures and for it to be so complex that it doesn't work right.
1937Scott I too am curious as what could happen to a 1945 Jeep that nothing works right that is a total restoration be going wrong. A 1945 jeep is so simple you can repair them with a wrench, bailing wire and duct tape. Well not really, but I have a fair amout of experiance with 1945 and older jeeps restoring for myself and for pay and can't imagine how you could drop 60K on a wwii jeep and it not work right. It must not be a restoration. To me restoration is factory fresh. The way it left the factory it should even be Olive drap for that year. You must have a rebuilt jeep with many aftermarket parts to get into those figures and for it to be so complex that it doesn't work right.
1937Scott
New member
Okee doke, as further explanation is required, here we go:
(I've been privately talked to about my statements immediately after posting, so sorry for the delay here.)
My '1945' Jeep might have began as a restoration, but it became a totally new, custom vehicle build, to wit: (You were correct in your observation.)
Dana 44 axles front and rear, late model 2.5 liter Jeep 4cyl. engine, Atlas t-case, new 5 speed tranny, custom race-built frame, new body, etc.......
So, Stephanie, I must apologize first to you. Second, my advice would be this; Find a COMPETENT shop for your Scout II, then seek out or have them provide references. By that I mean customers that have had major or similar work you are seeking that has been completed by said shop. I would engage them about the quality of work, timeliness as well as cost.
I did none of that. I merely interviewed the shop and followed their lead. This is a BRIEF list of what drove the cost of my Jeep through the roof; It took 2 engines, 2 transmissions, 2 transfer cases, 2 frames, several sets of springs (which are still wrong), 3 sets of driveshafts, numerous fit/re-fit/design issue problems to build my Jeep. An UN-motivated shop didn't help. I put much cash up front, a mistake in hindsight. All of the duplicate parts were a result of inexperience and/or fit problems by the shop, requiring alternative parts to get it to work. The shop would refrain from working on it for months at a time, and would only 'dust it off' if I came for a visit to check progress.
I also got to a point in the build where I was so far into it that I was just trying to see it through and get it home. (The build took place out of state from me.) It's still frustrating for me that over $7,000 in custom axles LEAK. The front from the seals, the rear out of the vent. This is from mile one. My Atlas t-case leaked dry sitting in my garage.
I took Forum member 'Redline' with me at least once to look at the project, it started out innocent enough, and fell apart. He was my most close friend that watched my (terribly bad) idea/dream turn into a nightmare.
So, in short, sorry if I mislead, I was projecting my own pain onto Stephanie's good idea. -- Hey, Scouts have dana 44 axles front and rear!
Ok, I hope I didn't go on too long, someday I'll post pics and a write up of my Jeep. Right now I'm trying to find a shop in Reno, NV that can fix some of my problems.
Scott
(I've been privately talked to about my statements immediately after posting, so sorry for the delay here.)
My '1945' Jeep might have began as a restoration, but it became a totally new, custom vehicle build, to wit: (You were correct in your observation.)
Dana 44 axles front and rear, late model 2.5 liter Jeep 4cyl. engine, Atlas t-case, new 5 speed tranny, custom race-built frame, new body, etc.......
So, Stephanie, I must apologize first to you. Second, my advice would be this; Find a COMPETENT shop for your Scout II, then seek out or have them provide references. By that I mean customers that have had major or similar work you are seeking that has been completed by said shop. I would engage them about the quality of work, timeliness as well as cost.
I did none of that. I merely interviewed the shop and followed their lead. This is a BRIEF list of what drove the cost of my Jeep through the roof; It took 2 engines, 2 transmissions, 2 transfer cases, 2 frames, several sets of springs (which are still wrong), 3 sets of driveshafts, numerous fit/re-fit/design issue problems to build my Jeep. An UN-motivated shop didn't help. I put much cash up front, a mistake in hindsight. All of the duplicate parts were a result of inexperience and/or fit problems by the shop, requiring alternative parts to get it to work. The shop would refrain from working on it for months at a time, and would only 'dust it off' if I came for a visit to check progress.
I also got to a point in the build where I was so far into it that I was just trying to see it through and get it home. (The build took place out of state from me.) It's still frustrating for me that over $7,000 in custom axles LEAK. The front from the seals, the rear out of the vent. This is from mile one. My Atlas t-case leaked dry sitting in my garage.
I took Forum member 'Redline' with me at least once to look at the project, it started out innocent enough, and fell apart. He was my most close friend that watched my (terribly bad) idea/dream turn into a nightmare.
So, in short, sorry if I mislead, I was projecting my own pain onto Stephanie's good idea. -- Hey, Scouts have dana 44 axles front and rear!
Ok, I hope I didn't go on too long, someday I'll post pics and a write up of my Jeep. Right now I'm trying to find a shop in Reno, NV that can fix some of my problems.
Scott