Discovery II Diesel Conversion

[Antichrist]

I'd be really surprised if there's an issue converting a 45 year old vehicle to diesel no matter where you live. CA maybe, but even there this vehicle was built before there were any emissions regulations.
A Mercedes is certainly worth considering, but that would also require a different gearbox, as would the 300Tdi.
Unless you're always in a hurry even the 2.6 does fine so I don't think there's a real downside to the 200Tdi. At least not enough to keep me from pursuing my plans to fit one in one of my NADA 109's.
But it really does come down to your expectations. Other than in high school I've always driven Land Rovers, so for me it's fine.

There are several disc conversion kits. I'd choose one that doesn't require a single source for all the parts. The one I think I linked to uses Rover parts. I believe this is the one I was thinking of. http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=11685
The only proprietary part is a homemade spacer.

 

[dcwhybrew]

A member of Texas Rovers with a 2004 D2 that suffered an oil pump failure was offered a diesel replacement under warranty by LR Dallas. Only problem was he had to pay $9K for the conversion "bits".

I am calling "BS" on that story - not you personally, but the story. Diesels are illegal, especially in that car. No dealership would subject their dealership license or LRNA franchise on a risky move such as that. Just my opinion, I could be wrong. If this is true, I'd like to learn who offered at LRD offered that swap.

 

[dcwhybrew]

http://www.mdengineering.co.uk/index.php
They have a kit to put the HS2.8 into a d2

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40803705@N08/5436649777/in/photostream
HS2.8

Yes, but those are sold in the UK for ROW applications where the swap is allowed.

 

[lwg]

I am calling "BS" on that story - not you personally, but the story. Diesels are illegal, especially in that car. No dealership would subject their dealership license or LRNA franchise on a risky move such as that. Just my opinion, I could be wrong. If this is true, I'd like to learn who offered at LRD offered that swap.

I have seen dealerships that are very mod friendly so it wouldn't surprise me if a smaller dealership would be willing to do this a few years back. Now with Tata and all their corporate changes I would be surprised to see something like this again.

 

[Red90]

I have seen dealerships that are very mod friendly so it wouldn't surprise me if a smaller dealership would be willing to do this a few years back. Now with Tata and all their corporate changes I would be surprised to see something like this again.

Regardless, not at that cost. You could not buy the parts for that, nevermind the labour.

 

[Brianawd]

Yes, but those are sold in the UK for ROW applications where the swap is allowed.

What is stopping some one from doing it here. If you live in a place with no DEQ it would not be a problem. Do the swap and know one would ever know. Even if you live in a place that has DEQ you can still do the swap.

It just takes a little wiring so that the stock ecu still thinks the gas motor is in the car. As for the deq testing. It a OBD2 car. No sniffer just plug in and read. Like I have posted in other forms. To make the it pass the plug in test you just have to find some one that can crack the ecu. They can already flash a d2 ecu to cracking the rest of it should not be that hard. Once that is done you can put the ecu into Force pass. That way when deq plugs into the car it will always read pass. It not a new thing. People have been doing it for years now with Imports and other sports cars where they are modded.
I know people are going to say but its not legal. I know its not legal but somes times the laws a stupid. Doing the swap is better for the earth. Its a cleaner running motor that gets better MPG.

 

[dcwhybrew]

What is stopping some one from doing it here. If you live in a place with no DEQ it would not be a problem. Do the swap and know one would ever know. Even if you live in a place that has DEQ you can still do the swap.

It just takes a little wiring so that the stock ecu still thinks the gas motor is in the car. As for the deq testing. It a OBD2 car. No sniffer just plug in and read. Like I have posted in other forms. To make the it pass the plug in test you just have to find some one that can crack the ecu. They can already flash a d2 ecu to cracking the rest of it should not be that hard. Once that is done you can put the ecu into Force pass. That way when deq plugs into the car it will always read pass. It not a new thing. People have been doing it for years now with Imports and other sports cars where they are modded.
I know people are going to say but its not legal. I know its not legal but somes times the laws a stupid. Doing the swap is better for the earth. Its a cleaner running motor that gets better MPG.

What do you do when it comes time to sell it? You will have to make sure you sell it to someone in the same emissions testing situation that you are in, and disclose (most likely in writing) that the vehicle has been modified.

I am certianly not saying it cant be done, just that it is very risky and impractical with that year model car. Rather than cracking the ECU, since you're going to that expense why not just get the TD5 that was designed for that car with the appropriate ECU (assuming the NAS ECU can't be "converted" to identify the diesel engine)?

 

[Rocket Ship]

What is stopping some one from doing it here. If you live in a place with no DEQ it would not be a problem. Do the swap and know one would ever know. Even if you live in a place that has DEQ you can still do the swap.

It just takes a little wiring so that the stock ecu still thinks the gas motor is in the car. As for the deq testing. It a OBD2 car. No sniffer just plug in and read. Like I have posted in other forms. To make the it pass the plug in test you just have to find some one that can crack the ecu. They can already flash a d2 ecu to cracking the rest of it should not be that hard. Once that is done you can put the ecu into Force pass. That way when deq plugs into the car it will always read pass. It not a new thing. People have been doing it for years now with Imports and other sports cars where they are modded.
I know people are going to say but its not legal. I know its not legal but somes times the laws a stupid. Doing the swap is better for the earth. Its a cleaner running motor that gets better MPG.

There's a number of issues with all of this.

First of all, it would take more than "a little wiring" to fool the ECU into thinking everything is all hunky dory.

Crack the ECU? Who's flashing D2 ECUs? I haven't seen anybody doing that for D2s, would love to know if you have. Because then maybe they can solve a little problem that I have... It really sounds like you don't know what you don't know. I've been involved in ECU tuning for a long time. Back in the day before the OEM's started releasing the programs, it was a nightmare. And that was "cracking" things that were meant to be fooled with.

The Faultmate, Hawkeye, etc. none of those do what you are talking about. That's not "cracking" an ECU.

It would be far easier just to remove the ECU, and hook up an OBDII emulator to the socket.

The simple answer, as I said before: Use a Td5 and hook it all up as God intended. OBD-II compliant, done. Or, use a late model 300tdi with the OBD system. It's really simple, doesn't monitor much.

Regardless, not at that cost. You could not buy the parts for that, nevermind the labour.

I'm assuming since they already owed him a new V8, they were just going to trade that for a Td5. Then the $9000 is for parts and labour. Sounds pretty generous to me. But I still think the story is bunk.

 

[LtFuzz]

If there was a Td5-powered '04 running around Texas, pictures and/or gossip about it would've made it to one of the 5 or 6 Land Rover boards most of us frequent, no?

 

[Brianawd]

There's a number of issues with all of this.

First of all, it would take more than "a little wiring" to fool the ECU into thinking everything is all hunky dory.


Crack the ECU? Who's flashing D2 ECUs? I haven't seen anybody doing that for D2s, would love to know if you have. Because then maybe they can solve a little problem that I have... It really sounds like you don't know what you don't know. I've been involved in ECU tuning for a long time. Back in the day before the OEM's started releasing the programs, it was a nightmare. And that was "cracking" things that were meant to be fooled with.

http://www.columbiarovers.com/projects/discovery-ii
They remapped the ecu. So they have cracked the timming and fuel maps. If you can do that then with a little more time you can crack the rest of the ecu. Making the ecu think the gas motor is still there is just a mater of finding what the ecu wants to see for sensor out put. (0-5v) so that you still have use of the trans and TC/abs.
Once you fully crack the ecu. Then you can put the car into force pass for the deq testing. The reader will have no idea that anything is wong as it will read everything is operating as it should.

As for me not knowing what I am doing. Not the case. I have been building and tuning High Hp Import car for more then 10 years now. All using the stock ecu that have been cracked to give me full control over the ecu. I have used every thing from DSMlink to crome and handata. I have also flashed epomes with a emulator.
My car that I tuned using a cracked stock ecu with dsmlink
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbu3ffCW8Ss
Car put down 562awhp and 484awtq.



Now can I crack the ecu. No but I know there are lots of people out there that can.

 

[Rocket Ship]

Well then I apologize for my comment. I hadn't seen that before. I can't find any more information on Cobb tuning a Land Rover. What tool would they use?

Might have been Autologic? http://www.autologic-diagnostics.co...published_articles/PMM_Apr_10_-_Tuning_Up.pdf Still, I can't find much out there about tuning the D2 V8's. TD5's yes, and LR3, RRS, etc. I remember trying to tune Mustangs back in the day with Autologics and just blindly playing with data tables in Hex. What a nightmare.

I gave up futzing around with factory ECU's in 2002 and just use a motorsport ECU (Pectel by Cosworth) Real-time tuning tuning is so much easier. And no worries about emissions or trying to trick anything.

I'd be really interested in what tool they are using, and how you could crack an ECU to the extent you're suggesting. There's a lot of stuff required. Crank position sensor pulses, in phase with cam sensor pulses. TPS input which must correlate reasonably well with plausible MAF values. 02 sensor input corresponding with the change between open and closed loop, and dithering during closed loop. Not to mention catalyst monitor O2's following the main O2's with the correct offset. And showing the right values to make it think the SAI system is working... it's all just mind boggling.

 

[Brianawd]

Not sure what they are using. Cobb is known for there Access port in the import world. I can always call them up and see what they say.

 

[Rocket Ship]

Yeah, I'm aware of the Access por. I had a buddy use it on his Saabaru, and that's what I was going to do to my WRX. They do good work. I wouldn't think you could just plug it into a Land Rover and have it work. But, who knows. Maybe since the D2 had a Bosch ECU, it might be programmable by a system typically used for Porsche or BMW.

 

[Bugspray]

There's a thread on Pirate4x4.com, I think, about a guy that put an Isuzu diesel into a DII. It was a gorgeous, spared-no-expense conversion, but if I remember correctly the amount of time/money he put into it was mind-blowing.

I now own this vehicle. Got a pretty good deal on it too. It is indeed mindblowing and a super clean install. No warning lights, no weird wiring, no chop jobs, every detail accounted for.....however it is illegal in all 50 states. Being that i live in Wyoming I was able to slip under the radar and register it without any difficulty.
Its a beast off-road and fairly civil on.

 

[ersatzknarf]

I did that swap (2.8TGV) into a D1 and have driven it on road and off for a number of years... M&D were great to work with and their kit was complete and the installation, although time consuming (for novice me !), went extremely smoothly. I would think that if they did a kit for a D2 it would be as nice.

Yes, but those are sold in the UK for ROW applications where the swap is allowed.

http://www.mdengineering.co.uk/index.php
They have a kit to put the HS2.8 into a d2

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40803705@N08/5436649777/in/photostream
HS2.8