Do you feel the need to be unarmed and defensless while camping?

[jeep-N-montero]

Exactly, carrying gun increases risk,(accidental injury), the question is what is more likely to hurt you, your mishandling the gun, one of your companions doing the same, or a threat that prompted you to carry the gun.
All kinds of threats has been mentioned, but no one has brought the danger of accidental injury by firearms. Accidental firearm injures is well documented, but it is not taken in to account in this discussion.
My personal experience is that misuse of guns is more likely to occur than other backcountry dangers.

Except there are no such thing as accidents when it comes to direct human behavior, only bad choices(misuse) or lack of proper prior planning. Go ahead and try to prove me wrong and you will see that I am right.

 

[jeep-N-montero]

I do in many circumstances. If I'm in a group camping scenario and I don't know the skill level of people who have firearms, I'd rather they not bring them along. Same for the individuals I see walking the street. With law enforcement, at least I know they have had training. With Joe Blow walking around with a canon on his hip, I haven't a clue if he knows how to use it safely.

Lastly, when I was a business banker, I had to inform a client the bank had called-in his $200k line of credit. When he started throwing things in my office, the gun on his belt didn't make me feel too fabulous. The situation was only compounded when the police came and also saw the pistol.

There are many instances whereby I have a problem with other people carrying. Many.

I agree with part of this, there are some people I choose not to camp with because they carry without any real training and they actually become a bigger threat than anything else around.

 

[jeep-N-montero]

There are a number of issues at play here. As you point out, there is a legal position, but there are also social and moral mores. Just speaking to the social element, some people are a little presumptuous that their right to carry trumps all. Only a few times in the last several years has anyone been gentleman enough to ask if I mind if they join our group with a gun in their possession. I think that takes one helluva good person to take into considerations how others feel about having a firearm present. It's the asking that matters. In all cases whereby I was asked if I'd mind, I knew the gun owner, knew they had been well trained, and didn't mind.

Now, it is my personal opinion, and hopeful wish, that someday our governance will require all gun owners to meet some level of testing standard before being granted the right to carry. We do it to ride motorcycles, fly planes, and even if you want to wax someone's back hair for money, you have to be certified to do it.

Interesting point, being around folks I know of who have had proper training you would never even notice they were carrying unless they told you. I have a personal rule that unless I have been to the range with someone and observed proper safety precautions I will not go camping or hunting with them.

 

[Christophe Noel]

You keep speaking of this "gun show loop hole".

I only mentioned it once. This is why I will politely bow out of this conversation. When these dialogues are engaged, people only read what they want to read as a means of delivering their prepared retorts.

 

[calicamper]

That truly is scary. IMO It seems most people here in Colorado either grew up with guns and loves them, or they have little to no experience with them and hate them. I didn't grow up around guns and had quite a bit of anxiety around them for a long time because I didn't understand how they work. I spent time a couple of years ago with a buddy who is an absolute fanatic, and he took me shooting a bunch and taught me quite a bit on how they work and how to be safe. It piqued my interest, although I still had quite a bit of anxiety because I thought "hey this is my buddy who's never been in the military or had LEO background, so he could be teaching me wrong".

So, I went and found the best range and training facility around (owned by former special ops guys and run by them along with competitive shooters, former LEOs, etc.) and took several classes including range safety, basics in handgun ownership, legal aspects of ownership I and II, how to pick the right gun for you - all were classroom taught with no shooting. Then I went back and did a weapon selection class where you can try several out, then Pistol I, Pistol II, CCW, and followed it up with renting about 15 guns and picked the brains of every guy at the range asking for advice and help along the way before I picked out one to buy. I probably in total did 10 various classes, shot well over 20 guns, put 2,000+ rounds downrange and spent over a year reading and researching before I bought anything (Sig P229 was what I eventually landed on). I go back to the range for practice/fun about 2x per month, and I try to take a class every 2 months or so to keep up on top of things.

I felt like not having the advantage of growing up with guns I needed to do whatever possible to develop an appreciation for the power, responsibility and potential danger they afford, so it does bother me that other people do not put forth at least as much effort to become a responsible owner. I feel like regardless of what the law mandates, it is incumbent on anyone who is interested in gun ownership to go through the steps of learning how they work, how to be safe, understand the legal implications of actions taken with a firearm and make wise decisions in employing them for whatever use they intend. I am usually quite leery of imposing more restrictions or laws on most things due to the fallible individuals who write and enact those regulations, but I think it's imperative each person take their individual responsibility seriously and avoid putting others in harms way. PS - that was an unfortunately long way of saying I think your friends need to get more training because they're probably more a liability than anything at this point.

I see parallels with Motorcycle riders. The total newbies more often take skills courses and consider the seriousness that comes with not having a crash cage and air bags. The "I grew up with it crowd" rarely ever take skills courses and piles of data shows that the self taught or dad or uncle taught riders have dramatically higher accident rates and serious injuries. I find its the same exact way with guns.

The people who respect the responsibility and skills needed to be a safe gun owner are not the issue. The bummer is that they are also the minority. Having said that all gun owners have a vested interest to change popular oppinion and to do it in a manner that actually improves gun owner skill, awareness of laws, etc. VS just viewing that as being a burden to having a gun. As long as the outspoken owners preach the ohhh poor me its a unecceptable burden to keep gun skills sharp, safe etc society will eventually enforce some sort of requirements. I would rather Gun skilled owners take the lead on this vs politicians pandering to soccermoms for votes.

 

[JWP58]

I only mentioned it once. This is why I will politely bow out of this conversation. When these dialogues are engaged, people only read what they want to read as a means of delivering their prepared retorts.

I apologize. I should have written "you speak of this gun show loophole". It still doesn't change the fact that what I wrote is true (contrary to what MSNBC says).

Are you going to get behind background checks for auto purchases? And of course banning private party auto sales, after all....think of the children. And after all if you've got nothing to hide, why not?? Its not like it could eventually be modified and taken advantage of by politicians to keep you from buying a vehicle....just like it of course wouldn't be done with firearms.

Another issue with vehicles is the obvious super-duper danger they are to the environment and all. I mean just how selfish are we as vehicle owners?

But wait let me guess its apples to oranges, because you want to drive YOUR vehicle...its different with guns (because you don't want them around).

 

[calicamper]

I apologize. I should have written "you speak of this gun show loophole". It still doesn't change the fact that what I wrote is true (contrary to what MSNBC says).

Are you going to get behind background checks for auto purchases? And of course banning private party auto sales, after all....think of the children.

You still need to have your vehicle registered, and a current license to operate it and insurance. Hell you even need to take a DMV test again yrs later to prove that you still know enough to operate safely.

 

[JWP58]

I see parallels with Motorcycle riders. The total newbies more often take skills courses and consider the seriousness that comes with not having a crash cage and air bags. The "I grew up with it crowd" rarely ever take skills courses and piles of data shows that the self taught or dad or uncle taught riders have dramatically higher accident rates and serious injuries. I find its the same exact way with guns.

The people who respect the responsibility and skills needed to be a safe gun owner are not the issue. The bummer is that they are also the minority. Having said that all gun owners have a vested interest to change popular oppinion and to do it in a manner that actually improves gun owner skill, awareness of laws, etc. VS just viewing that as being a burden to having a gun. As long as the outspoken owners preach the ohhh poor me its a unecceptable burden to keep gun skills sharp, safe etc society will eventually enforce some sort of requirements. I would rather Gun skilled owners take the lead on this vs politicians pandering to soccermoms for votes.

It doesn't matter what responsible gun owners do, or what efforts they take to be trained and property prepared to use their weapons. The only instances that are used to perpetuate the "guns are evil" and "gun violence is out of control" are the actions of CRIMINALS.

 

[JWP58]

You still need to have your vehicle registered, and a current license to operate it and insurance. Hell you even need to take a DMV test again yrs later to prove that you still know enough to operate safely.

Yes, true. But there is a loophole open regarding the purchase of a vehicle. That's unacceptable. Also would you believe that some folks don't have a license, or insurance, or registration?????? Should we ban cars because of those people? You know, punish the folks that follow the rules, since that's the popular line of "thinking".

 

[calicamper]

It doesn't matter what responsible gun owners do, or what efforts they take to be trained and property prepared to use their weapons. The only instances that are used to perpetuate the "guns are evil" and "gun violence is out of control" are the actions of CRIMINALS.

Gun advocates ie owners can step in front of the issues and drive smart policy. OR!! Just point fingers and gripe about adding restrictions to gun ownership. I've found that with all things in life when you have a vested interest its always better to be invtge drivers seat vs the guy standing in the road making a bunch of noise and going no place.

The reality is today Society wants to see changes in how we manage Gun ownership. Gun owners can step up and get involved in creating good policy or they can watch the short bus full of politicians drive by pandering to the Soccer Moms. Whats your choice?

 

[JWP58]

Gun advocates ie owners can step in front of the issues and drive smart policy. OR!! Just point fingers and gripe about adding restrictions to gun ownership. I've found that with all things in life when you have a vested interest its always better to be invtge drivers seat vs the guy standing in the road making a bunch of noise and going no place.

The reality is today Society wants to see changes in how we manage Gun ownership. Gun owners can step up and get involved in creating good policy or they can watch the short bus full of politicians drive by pandering to the Soccer Moms. Whats your choice?

Whats my choice? My choice is to live in a free state. Where I can carry responsibly without fear of being locked up just for doing so. I plan to keep honing the perishable skill that is "operating a firearm". Not only do I have to do that for my job, but I do it because Im a responsible citizen. I encourage every firearm owner or prospective owner to get good training, because I could go buy a Stratocaster but that doesn't make me Stevie Ray Vaughan...same applies to firearms.

I don't worry about what other idiots do with their time, or what negligent choices they make because I believe a reasonable person would be able to understand that I have no control over anyone else but me. My belief is that individuals are responsible for THEIR actions and don't represent the majority of any group, I guess I take for granted that some people cant make that connection.

Ive never committed a crime with a firearm and I wont accept being treated like I have simply because someone did.

 

[calicamper]

Yes, true. But there is a loophole open regarding the purchase of a vehicle. That's unacceptable. Also would you believe that some folks don't have a license, or insurance, or registration?????? Should we ban cars because of those people? You know, punish the folks that follow the rules, since that's the popular line of "thinking".

Happens all the time. Unregistered cars are impounded all the time.

 

[calicamper]

Whats my choice? My choice is to live in a free state. Where I can carry responsibly without fear of being locked up just for doing so. I plan to keep honing the perishable skill that is "operating a firearm". Not only do I have to do that for my job, but I do it because Im a responsible citizen. I encourage every firearm owner or prospective owner to get good training, because I could go buy a Stratocaster but that doesn't make me Stevie Ray Vaughan...same applies to firearms.

I don't worry about what other idiots do with their time, or what negligent choices they make because I believe a reasonable person would be able to understand that I have no control over anyone else but me. My belief is that individuals are responsible for THEIR actions and don't represent the majority of any group, I guess I take for granted that some people cant make that connection.

Ive never committed a crime with a firearm and I wont accept being treated like I have simply because someone did.

Todays climate around gun issues with society will force changes. You can choose to be part of driving better policy or choose to do nothing and then complain about what non owners have pushed through as policy. There will be no answer E option of nothing.

 

[jeep-N-montero]

Every tool could be potentially mishandled, that's the responsibility of the person using the tool to know how to use it safely. And it's not only about guns - you can hurt yourself badly with a vehicle, axe, knife, saw, campfire - almost anything in the matter of fact. As least when you deep in wilderness you can hurt only yourself and it's up to you to decide what to take with you and what risk you are willing to accept. In my opinion handgun is the safest tool since you most likely won't have to remove it from holster: ) And if you really got in to situation when you need a gun I bet you would be glad that you have it.

Good point, it's too bad we don't have stricter laws regarding drivers of large SUV's who plow into other drivers because they were too dumb to simply slow down, case in point http://www.ksl.com/?sid=37647009&nid=148&fm=most_popular&s_cid=popular-2 Third incident this locally year where the wrong person died.

 

[jeep-N-montero]

Yes, true. But there is a loophole open regarding the purchase of a vehicle. That's unacceptable. Also would you believe that some folks don't have a license, or insurance, or registration?????? Should we ban cars because of those people? You know, punish the folks that follow the rules, since that's the popular line of "thinking".

Not to sound mean, but a lot of those people would not exist if it weren't for the crutch called social welfare, which in turn would also greatly reduce gun violence.