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JWP58
Guest
Do you believe a person should have the ability to defend themselves?
If a criminal attacks you with a weapon, how do you intend to defend yourself?
Do you feel the need to be unarmed and defensless while camping?
- Thread starter shogun
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Do you believe a person should have the ability to defend themselves?
If a criminal attacks you with a weapon, how do you intend to defend yourself?
The whole guns vs cars is specious at best anyway. Yeah cars are safer than they used to be and will no doubt get better. Fact is you're still far more likely to be killed in a car crash than by a gun. Look here. Covers both ends of the argument:
http://crimeresearch.org/2015/01/are-guns-more-likely-to-kill-you-than-a-car-is-no/
Does a dealer need a federal license to sell a car?
Do you have to have a special ID card to buy a car?
Can you sell a car to a buyer in another state?
Is it a felony to lose a car title? Se what happens if you lose the paperwork for a supressor.
Do you need a background check to buy a car?
As long as you keep it on private property you don't need registration, insurance, or a license to drive it.
Is your drivers license honored in all states? Firearm permits aren't
Maybe being treated like a car wouldn't be so bad after all! :sombrero:
So rather than quibble over a useless argument, why not discuss the real causes of violence of which guns just happen to be a component and a rather small one at that. IMHO that would be declining values, mental health issues, poor education, and lack of real job opportunity for starters.
http://crimeresearch.org/2015/01/are-guns-more-likely-to-kill-you-than-a-car-is-no/
Does a dealer need a federal license to sell a car?
Do you have to have a special ID card to buy a car?
Can you sell a car to a buyer in another state?
Is it a felony to lose a car title? Se what happens if you lose the paperwork for a supressor.
Do you need a background check to buy a car?
As long as you keep it on private property you don't need registration, insurance, or a license to drive it.
Is your drivers license honored in all states? Firearm permits aren't
Maybe being treated like a car wouldn't be so bad after all! :sombrero:
So rather than quibble over a useless argument, why not discuss the real causes of violence of which guns just happen to be a component and a rather small one at that. IMHO that would be declining values, mental health issues, poor education, and lack of real job opportunity for starters.
Christophe Noel
Expedition Leader
I think you guys are taking the automobile parallel too literally. The takeaway is that our society made a collective decision to address automobile safety as a public concern and made efforts to make it safer. We have the ability to do the same with guns. Will we do so is the question.
I can tell you this much. If 24 small kids were killed in an automobile accident, the country would be determined to make sure it didn't happen again. When those same 24 kids are killed by a gunman, we dismiss it as quickly as possible lest it infringe on our rights.
I can tell you this much. If 24 small kids were killed in an automobile accident, the country would be determined to make sure it didn't happen again. When those same 24 kids are killed by a gunman, we dismiss it as quickly as possible lest it infringe on our rights.
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JWP58
Guest
Determined enough to ban you from driving on the interstate or downtown? Determined enough to ban all cars that can go over 70mph? Doubt it. Matter of fact, why can automobiles go faster than 55mph???? That's pretty unsafe, because we all know speed kills...especially if you've ever worked a fatal crash scene.
Do you want to know why the bleeding heart liberals don't want to enforce mandatory background checks to purchase vehicles, or mandatory speed governors, or lower speed limits???? Because they drive. They want to ban guns, or make them almost impossible to manufacture or purchase because they don't own/shoot/or like them.
Again why should I be punished when I haven't committed a crime? Please explain.
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Not true. Death rate in auto vs guns is the same.
We live in a community, striving to make our community safer is not punishment.
It was you that had earlier made the very direct and literal comparison between increasing car regulation and increasing gun regulation:
Bob280zx has simply pointed out that firearms are in some ways more heavily regulated than cars (his example on FFL licensing, state pistol permits not having universal acceptance unlike driver's licenses, ect.). And yet despite those additional restrictions on firearms, people still find ways to misuse or abuse them.
The problem with the this approach of more restrictions and burdens on gun ownership is that there is no end in sight. We've already put significant restrictions on certain types of firearm ownership, and yet we still have what many people consider to be a massive gun violence problem. When political groups rush to make rash decisions, as they have in the past, and decide to enact certain universal bans on high-capacity magazines or "assault weapon" features, what will be their response when we have another mass shooting or several dozen young men get killed over a summer due to inner city crime?
The #1 weapon used in gun violence are pistols, despite them being the most heavily regulated of all firearms. When all the supposed "military style" weapons have been banned or restricted to the point of impracticality, pistols will become the next focus of anti-gun groups. And after pistols are effectively banned, what's next? If we acknowledge that criminals by their nature will simply seek to circumvent and work around gun laws, at what point should we stop putting restrictions on law-abiding people?
If someone were truly determined to safeguard our kids, we would stop advertising schools as "gun-free" zones. All that does is serve to inform all would-be criminals that there is a vulnerable and highly sensitive target open for attack. This idea that we can regulate illegal guns and criminals out of existence is simply not practical.
1) We all know that realistically speaking we can't remove all firearms from the us, even the illegal ones. We've been trying to do that with certain hard drugs for the last few decades and have failed horribly at it.
2) If in some theoretical situation, we did effectively remove all firearms, bad people will still find a way to target and kill the innocent. You can go read up on the dozens of incidents where young ideologues used some nails and screws and some home-made explosives to take out dozens of people with the simple push of a button. Evil will find a way...taking away self-defense measures from the lawful people in this world simply makes it easier for malign actors to prey upon them.
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You do not seem to reading this thread carefully. I have made the point that carrying a gun introduces its own risk. We want to make gun owning saver.
Sorry but it is. Well unless you're suicidal or a black male gang member between 18-35. Look a little deeper.
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JWP58
Guest
No actually I have to read your posts very carefully, usually a couple of times to understand what you are even talking about.
I have no clue what "make gun owning saver" means.
Carrying a gun introduces as much risk as not using sunscreen to the person carrying. My firearm has never gone off in its holster. I carry concealed when not at work, so nobody but me even knows I have a gun on my person. The only person that is at risk by me carrying a concealed weapon, is the criminal that I may or hopefully may not encounter while carrying. I hope I never have to use my weapon, but I sure do want it just in case I ever need it.
Hopefully you don't drive, to make your community safer.
If it involves taking away peoples' individual rights, then yes it does qualify as punishment IMO. A lawful citizen should be able to own any type of semi-auto rifle or pistol; his/her rights shouldn't be restricted simply to compensate for the small percentage of criminals and bad actors that might use such a weapon inappropriately.
The very idea of gun control entails restricting and punishing the society as a whole in order to keep the bad people in check.
What the hell does that mean? Is there an epidemic of law-abiding gun owners killing themselves or others, accidentally or otherwise? Lawful gun-owners are not the problem...we are not the ones who cause nearly 10k gun murders every year. You're trying to put more mandates and government control where none is needed. Your focus should be on the criminals who cause those 10k gun murders.
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JWP58
Guest
Wait you don't feel guilty for following the law??? You're not on your knees begging to be punished by the Government? You don't want even more legislation in the works to criminalize your right?
Weird, you must be one of those people with "common sense".
Interesting view with which I somewhat agree. Society did make the decision for safer cars and thankfully so. A complex piece of machinery offers much opportunity for improvement. A simple device like a firearm not so much. What would that ability look like?
Christophe Noel
Expedition Leader
This is hyperbole or an oblique argument at best. There is nothing punitive about the application of regulations in the gun, or any other sector. We aren't being "punished" because we can't have brand new Defenders here. They just don't meet our goofy regulations.
And again, this conversation is deteriorating, as if often does, because one half of the debate keeps asserting that the end goal is a banning of guns, when that sentiment is almost never, ever expressed. The vast majority of those on the opposite side of the "pro-gun" advocacy are not "anti-gun," they are simply hoping to reduce violent gun usage across the board. Stemming the flood of guns and unregulated gun owners would be a good start.
The news today just reported that the shooters in San Bernadino bought guns second hand from an individual who bought them legally. We make it pretty easy for people to make the good guy to bad guy transition. Personally, I'd like to see that transition be a little more difficult to make, wouldn't you?
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