NevetsG
Active member
FOUL! This is an electron thread not fuel thread.
Do you really need an AC inverter?
- Thread starter NevetsG
- Start date
FOUL! This is an electron thread not fuel thread.
icedragonmx
Adventurer
I was looking at this one - https://www.dewalt.ca/en-ca/product...ax-lithium-ion-vehicle-battery-charger/dcb119 but they do have several available
Ducky's Dad
Explorer
I have 12V cigarette lighter chargers for my Dewalt tools in 7.2, 9.6, 12, 14.4, and 18V, for NiCads, LIon, and NIMH batteries. That's all on a single charger, and they come in single port and dual port versions. And with the Dewalt 20-Vto18V adapter, I can charge my 20V batteries on the same charger. Keep in mind that the 20V Max tools are a marketing gimmick because the 18V batteries will also charge to 20V max, but they are all nominally 18V. I also have several Ryobi chargers that plug into the lighter socket or power port that handle all the Ryobi 18V One Plus batteries. When I find a deal on a Ridgid charger, I'll grab one of those, too.
Hillbilly Heaven
Explorer
Did you even bother to read the description. That is made for obsolete Ni-Cad batteries.
Thanks I went originally to the DeWalt site and it must have only listed it newest chargers. I went back after you posted that and listed all A to Z and there are a couple but only for 20 volt batteries.
DeWalt is not the only one that changes batteries often. it is the tech that is constantly improving. If we followed your belief we would still be using Ni-Cad batteries and cussing someone for putting it back on the charger after using it for 10 minutes. Besides even if the do bring out a newer model with different batteries you can still buy new batteries to fit your older tools.
Hillbilly Heaven
Explorer
If you are using that adapter to charge your 20 volt packs in that 18 volt charger then you are not fully charging your batteries. If you are charging your 18 volt pack to 20 volts you are over charging your batteries and reducing service life.
brianjwilson
Some sort of lost...
Need? No. Most things run on 12v. The two main reasons I have an inverter is for a microwave and an induction cooktop. I could run the water heater on it as well (isotherm slim square) but it would not be an efficient use. Additionally the inverter I’m using (magnum 2000w) has a built in 100amp charger, and I’m using a remote control and battery monitor kit so it serves multiple functions.
If not for kids I’d probably skip both the microwave and induction cook top. But I wanted everything to run on electric or diesel and not have any open flame cooking inside.
If not for kids I’d probably skip both the microwave and induction cook top. But I wanted everything to run on electric or diesel and not have any open flame cooking inside.
Ducky's Dad
Explorer
Hillbilly said:
If you are using that adapter to charge your 20 volt packs in that 18 volt charger then you are not fully charging your batteries. If you are charging your 18 volt pack to 20 volts you are over charging your batteries and reducing service life.
Pro Tool Reviews said:
20V Max Vs 18V: Running the Numbers
Inside your battery pack are the individual battery cells. In an 18V/20V Max system, they are always set in groups of 5 wired in a series. Each group of 5 is then wired in parallel to increase the number of amp hours and overall battery capacity in watt hours. For more on that, check out our feature on Voltage Vs. Amp Hours.
Each one of those battery cells has two voltage ratings – nominal and maximum. The amount of voltage that a battery produces when fully charged is higher than when it begins to discharge, even slightly. It’s actually a chemical characteristic of the lithium-ion system. Each battery cell has a nominal voltage of 3.6 volts and a maximum voltage of just over 4 volts.
3.6 volts (nominal) x 5 cells = 18 volts
4 volts (maximum) x 5 cells = 20 volts
That’s it. That’s the entire difference in 18V vs 20V Max batteries. It’s only a matter of whether the company is using nominal voltage or maximum voltage as their rating.
https://www.protoolreviews.com/news/20v-max-vs-18v-battery-power/17024/
Tool Guyd said:
ToolGuyd > Power Tools > Cordless > Dewalt 20V Max = 18V Nominally
Dewalt 20V Max = 18V Nominally
JAN 11, 2016 STUART 57 COMMENTS
A couple of years ago I posted about the difference (or lack thereof) between Dewalt 20V Max and Dewalt 18V XR tools, but there is still a lot of confusion about what Dewalt 20V Max really means.
In the most simplistic terms, Dewalt 20V Max = 18V. These aren’t 20V battery packs, they’re 18V battery packs.
If you didn’t already know this, don’t worry, it’s not just you. 4-1/2 years later, lots of people still assume 20V Max is more powerful than 18V.
I have yet to determine whether there are more people that know what 20V Max means, or more people that assume 20V Max is more powerful than 18V.
If you are first learning that 20V Max and 18V are the same, don’t feel too bad, you’re probably still in the majority.
When Dewalt first launched their 20V Max lineup with 20V Max branding, their marketing exec said it was to “avoid confusion.” They said that the intent was to differentiate the new tools from previous 18V tools so that users would know they were not backwards compatible.
20V Max does also have marketing benefits. Here in the USA, many of us always assume the bigger, the better.
Which would you think is more powerful, an 18V power tool or 20V power tool? “Well duh, 20V,” is the default thinking of a lot of people, or at least many if not most Americans. It’s how we’re trained to think.
Bigger, more, larger is often considered better.
What is important is that users understand that 20V Max battery packs operate at 18V nominally.
If you measure the output of a 20V Max battery pack when it’s pulled right off a charger, it’ll measure somewhere around 20V. But once a load is applied and that battery pack is put to use, the output will be 18V.
When you look at the battery cells these packs are made from, the combined voltage adds up to 18V. They’re sold as 3.6V cells, not 4.0V cells.
I stopped adding “20V Max = 18V nominally” in 20V Max coverage because I assumed most people are aware of the distinction, but that unfortunately isn’t the case. It’s not that this piece of information is hidden, but it’s not made obvious enough by retailers, distributors, or even some Dewalt product pages.
Making matters worse, some sources perpetuate misinformation and confusion. For example, there’s one magazine that ran an entire review roundup featuring the “top 20V cordless drills.” 20V Max drills are 18V drills with fancy branding.
Now, before you get mad at Dewalt and other SBD brands for doing this, keep in mind they weren’t the first, and they’re not the only ones.
They also don’t hide that 20V Max = 18V nominally.
Kobalt rebranded their 18V power tools as 20V and “relaunched” them alongside new higher capacity battery packs. Rockwell also uses 20V Max branding, as does Craftsman for their Black & Decker-made 20V Max Bolt-On modular power tools.
Here’s why I’m not too upset at Dewalt for creating “20V Max” branding:
Back when 12V Max tools were released, they were 10.8V tools. I believe it began with Bosch’s 10.8V Pocket Driver.
Makita’s compact line started off as 10.8V too.
But then Milwaukee came out with M12. If you look carefully, you might notice that Milwaukee never ever references the battery voltage of their tools. Their compact line is simply M12, and full-size tools M18.
It was a clever way to brand a 12V-class power tool line without describing them as 10.8V.
After a while, Bosch moved to 12V Max in order to maintain competitiveness. Makita did the same.
I guess it works.
When Dewalt’s 12V Max Li-ion lineup launched, they immediately followed the 12V Max convention that other brands established.
So when the new 18V lineup was ready to launch, they went with 20V Max instead of 18V XR. Can you say that you would have done differently?
As a consumer, I still think it’s messy to have to look at a box and find out what the asterisk in 20V Max* means. But it’s still written out on the box.
Right on the front of a Dewalt cordless tool combo box, it says, in 3 languages, :
Yes, it’s a little small, but it’s there, and possibly in multiple locations too.
It’s the worst-kept secret ever. But… that’s if you have a 20V Max power tool box in your hands. 20V Max is not as clearly disclosed online by retailers or even on Dewalt product pages.
For example, look at this Dewalt 20V Max cordless drill kit on Amazon. That’s their special $99 holiday promo drill/driver kit that has been very popular. Where on this purchase page does it say that 20V Max = 18V nominally?
In Amazon’s Technical Details list, it shows “20 volts” for Voltage.
But when you look at Dewalt product pages, there’s a disclaimer on *some* 20V Max tool pages, in the form of an image (link).
But then I look at other pages, such as for this screwgun, and it says 20V under Specifications.
Anyway, while I’m not excusing the decision, I can understand it. Outside of North America, 12V Max is simply 10.8V. Dewalt is at least consistent, following 12V Max with 20V Max.
One thing is for certain, there isn’t a lot of user confusion as to whether 18V XRP and 20V Max are one and the same. Most 18V XRP users are well aware of and upset at the incompatibilities, although an adapter is finally in the works. Even if that explanation was just the one Dewalt gave to media, it’s at least true.
It is what it is.
I can’t change Dewalt’s branding. If given the chance, would I? Possibly, as “18V XR” sounds a lot better and would help ToolGuyd’s Dewalt cordless tool coverage reach a more international audience. But what I can do is try spread awareness.
It’s the shopper or buyer’s due diligence to learn what 20V Max means. Wouldn’t 20V Max* stand out to you, when the other tools on the shelf say 18V? I’m pretty sure I’d want to know what that Max and asterisk meant.
20V Max* = 18V.
I sometimes take this information for granted. How many of you did NOT already know that 20V Max is just a fancier way of describing an 18V power tool?
http://toolguyd.com/dewalt-20v-max-18v/
I said:
Max tools are a marketing gimmick because the 18V batteries will also charge to 20V max, but they are all nominally 18V.
I'll stand by that.
As far as NiCads being obsolete, WRONGO. NiCads are easily rebuildable ($36 for a set of new Sanyo cells in an 18V XRP battery shell), and can be rebuilt indefinitely unless you drop it off a roof and break the housing. Speaking of being on a roof, NiCads give you some warning when they are starting to run out of juice, while LIon just quits suddenly, usually in the middle of something important. And for those of us with a significant investment in Dewalt 18V cordless tools, switching to new 20V max tools would be prohibitively expensive, probably $10K in my case. I have a few Dewalt 20V max tools, and adapters to use the 20V Max batteries on the old tools, but I always grab the 18V tools first with the NiCad batteries.
If you are using that adapter to charge your 20 volt packs in that 18 volt charger then you are not fully charging your batteries. If you are charging your 18 volt pack to 20 volts you are over charging your batteries and reducing service life.
Pro Tool Reviews said:
20V Max Vs 18V: Running the Numbers
Inside your battery pack are the individual battery cells. In an 18V/20V Max system, they are always set in groups of 5 wired in a series. Each group of 5 is then wired in parallel to increase the number of amp hours and overall battery capacity in watt hours. For more on that, check out our feature on Voltage Vs. Amp Hours.
Each one of those battery cells has two voltage ratings – nominal and maximum. The amount of voltage that a battery produces when fully charged is higher than when it begins to discharge, even slightly. It’s actually a chemical characteristic of the lithium-ion system. Each battery cell has a nominal voltage of 3.6 volts and a maximum voltage of just over 4 volts.
3.6 volts (nominal) x 5 cells = 18 volts
4 volts (maximum) x 5 cells = 20 volts
That’s it. That’s the entire difference in 18V vs 20V Max batteries. It’s only a matter of whether the company is using nominal voltage or maximum voltage as their rating.
https://www.protoolreviews.com/news/20v-max-vs-18v-battery-power/17024/
Tool Guyd said:
ToolGuyd > Power Tools > Cordless > Dewalt 20V Max = 18V Nominally
Dewalt 20V Max = 18V Nominally
JAN 11, 2016 STUART 57 COMMENTS
A couple of years ago I posted about the difference (or lack thereof) between Dewalt 20V Max and Dewalt 18V XR tools, but there is still a lot of confusion about what Dewalt 20V Max really means.
In the most simplistic terms, Dewalt 20V Max = 18V. These aren’t 20V battery packs, they’re 18V battery packs.
If you didn’t already know this, don’t worry, it’s not just you. 4-1/2 years later, lots of people still assume 20V Max is more powerful than 18V.
I have yet to determine whether there are more people that know what 20V Max means, or more people that assume 20V Max is more powerful than 18V.
If you are first learning that 20V Max and 18V are the same, don’t feel too bad, you’re probably still in the majority.
When Dewalt first launched their 20V Max lineup with 20V Max branding, their marketing exec said it was to “avoid confusion.” They said that the intent was to differentiate the new tools from previous 18V tools so that users would know they were not backwards compatible.
20V Max does also have marketing benefits. Here in the USA, many of us always assume the bigger, the better.
Which would you think is more powerful, an 18V power tool or 20V power tool? “Well duh, 20V,” is the default thinking of a lot of people, or at least many if not most Americans. It’s how we’re trained to think.
Bigger, more, larger is often considered better.
What is important is that users understand that 20V Max battery packs operate at 18V nominally.
If you measure the output of a 20V Max battery pack when it’s pulled right off a charger, it’ll measure somewhere around 20V. But once a load is applied and that battery pack is put to use, the output will be 18V.
When you look at the battery cells these packs are made from, the combined voltage adds up to 18V. They’re sold as 3.6V cells, not 4.0V cells.
I stopped adding “20V Max = 18V nominally” in 20V Max coverage because I assumed most people are aware of the distinction, but that unfortunately isn’t the case. It’s not that this piece of information is hidden, but it’s not made obvious enough by retailers, distributors, or even some Dewalt product pages.
Making matters worse, some sources perpetuate misinformation and confusion. For example, there’s one magazine that ran an entire review roundup featuring the “top 20V cordless drills.” 20V Max drills are 18V drills with fancy branding.
Now, before you get mad at Dewalt and other SBD brands for doing this, keep in mind they weren’t the first, and they’re not the only ones.
They also don’t hide that 20V Max = 18V nominally.
Kobalt rebranded their 18V power tools as 20V and “relaunched” them alongside new higher capacity battery packs. Rockwell also uses 20V Max branding, as does Craftsman for their Black & Decker-made 20V Max Bolt-On modular power tools.
Here’s why I’m not too upset at Dewalt for creating “20V Max” branding:
Back when 12V Max tools were released, they were 10.8V tools. I believe it began with Bosch’s 10.8V Pocket Driver.
Makita’s compact line started off as 10.8V too.
But then Milwaukee came out with M12. If you look carefully, you might notice that Milwaukee never ever references the battery voltage of their tools. Their compact line is simply M12, and full-size tools M18.
It was a clever way to brand a 12V-class power tool line without describing them as 10.8V.
After a while, Bosch moved to 12V Max in order to maintain competitiveness. Makita did the same.
I guess it works.
When Dewalt’s 12V Max Li-ion lineup launched, they immediately followed the 12V Max convention that other brands established.
So when the new 18V lineup was ready to launch, they went with 20V Max instead of 18V XR. Can you say that you would have done differently?
As a consumer, I still think it’s messy to have to look at a box and find out what the asterisk in 20V Max* means. But it’s still written out on the box.
Right on the front of a Dewalt cordless tool combo box, it says, in 3 languages, :
*Maximum initial battery voltage (measured without a workload) is 20 volts. Nominal voltage is 18.
Yes, it’s a little small, but it’s there, and possibly in multiple locations too.
It’s the worst-kept secret ever. But… that’s if you have a 20V Max power tool box in your hands. 20V Max is not as clearly disclosed online by retailers or even on Dewalt product pages.
For example, look at this Dewalt 20V Max cordless drill kit on Amazon. That’s their special $99 holiday promo drill/driver kit that has been very popular. Where on this purchase page does it say that 20V Max = 18V nominally?
In Amazon’s Technical Details list, it shows “20 volts” for Voltage.
But when you look at Dewalt product pages, there’s a disclaimer on *some* 20V Max tool pages, in the form of an image (link).
But then I look at other pages, such as for this screwgun, and it says 20V under Specifications.
Anyway, while I’m not excusing the decision, I can understand it. Outside of North America, 12V Max is simply 10.8V. Dewalt is at least consistent, following 12V Max with 20V Max.
One thing is for certain, there isn’t a lot of user confusion as to whether 18V XRP and 20V Max are one and the same. Most 18V XRP users are well aware of and upset at the incompatibilities, although an adapter is finally in the works. Even if that explanation was just the one Dewalt gave to media, it’s at least true.
It is what it is.
I can’t change Dewalt’s branding. If given the chance, would I? Possibly, as “18V XR” sounds a lot better and would help ToolGuyd’s Dewalt cordless tool coverage reach a more international audience. But what I can do is try spread awareness.
It’s the shopper or buyer’s due diligence to learn what 20V Max means. Wouldn’t 20V Max* stand out to you, when the other tools on the shelf say 18V? I’m pretty sure I’d want to know what that Max and asterisk meant.
20V Max* = 18V.
I sometimes take this information for granted. How many of you did NOT already know that 20V Max is just a fancier way of describing an 18V power tool?
http://toolguyd.com/dewalt-20v-max-18v/
I said:
Max tools are a marketing gimmick because the 18V batteries will also charge to 20V max, but they are all nominally 18V.
I'll stand by that.
As far as NiCads being obsolete, WRONGO. NiCads are easily rebuildable ($36 for a set of new Sanyo cells in an 18V XRP battery shell), and can be rebuilt indefinitely unless you drop it off a roof and break the housing. Speaking of being on a roof, NiCads give you some warning when they are starting to run out of juice, while LIon just quits suddenly, usually in the middle of something important. And for those of us with a significant investment in Dewalt 18V cordless tools, switching to new 20V max tools would be prohibitively expensive, probably $10K in my case. I have a few Dewalt 20V max tools, and adapters to use the 20V Max batteries on the old tools, but I always grab the 18V tools first with the NiCad batteries.
No, the AH capacity, internal electronics and chemistry can change every few years, as Ryobi has done with the One+ platform.
Coming soon, 3.0Ah, 6.0Ah, 9.0Ah in a new "High Energy" upgrade format, getting away from 18650 cells internally, moving to larger 20700 cells, with 20% greater electrochemical reaction volume per cell, which translates to 25% cooler-running battery packs, more efficient. Also 4 tabs instead of 2, allowing the lightest compact 3.0Ah battery pack to be used on more power-hungry tools like saws and angle grinders
They just keep the **voltage and / connector geometry** the same
So well over 100 products, as new battery types and chargers come along, all fit the original form factor from since 1996
And they have publicly committed they will "never" change the 18V ONE+ battery platform so much as to disrupt that backward compatibility.
Ducky's Dad
Explorer
I forgot to mention in my previous post that the guy who rebuilds my 18V XRP batteries can also install NiMH cells in the NiCad housings, and the yellow Dewalt chargers (including the car charger) will also recharge the NiMH batteries. I have upgraded a few of my old XRPs to NiMH with great success.
Milwaukee has already introduced their 9.0 ah batteries for the M18 tools.
Milwaukee has already introduced their 9.0 ah batteries for the M18 tools.
NevetsG
Active member
20V packs are a marketing ploy, since the cells that make them are rated at 3.7V each, but when fully charged they will read upwards of 4.2V. So when you put your voltmeter to a fully charged battery you will see about 20V. There is a big downside to charging Li-Po to full capacity, because it will stress the battery. So technically the 18V batteries in tools are really 20V+ batteries, but not fully charged so it will be more robust.
NevetsG
Active member
You understood the intent, and I'm guessing your a forum Troll.
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