Yes, you are correct, my understanding is they are both fixed roof. I so wish they made raising hard sides. Hoping the XP Cube would have raising hard sides and fit nicely on a Fuso.
Earthcruiser vs ATW
- Thread starter MIRIS
- Start date
Yes, you are correct, my understanding is they are both fixed roof. I so wish they made raising hard sides. Hoping the XP Cube would have raising hard sides and fit nicely on a Fuso.
pugslyyy
Expedition Vehicle Engineer Guy
boblynch
Adventurer
A different way to address the original question would be to prepare two lists. The first is the “what do I want to do list”. What type of travel interests you (extended back country, established campgrounds, etc.), what destinations are high on your list (deserts, mountains, beach, etc.), what recreational activities will the vehicle be used to support (kayaking, cycling, etc.)? Many people focus way too much on what they are going to buy and not enough on what they want to do. Not saying this applies to the OP, just a general observation.
The second list should be a detailed list of user requirements that is brand independent (e.g., permanent sleeping for X adults and Y kids, interior storage, on board air compressor, etc.). Split the list into "must-haves" and "nice-to-haves".
Take these lists and start looking at what’s available. You may find that EC or ATW are a perfect fit, or that neither is a suitable match. Talk to as many experienced travelers as possible, including owners of rigs that might meet your requirements. This forum is a very effective place for this.
I see you are in Québec. You may want to contact EC, ATW, and other vendors and find out if they are going to be at Overland Expo East in October. It’s in Asheville NC. It’s also a great place to talk to other folks and see different rigs. Best of luck in your search.
The second list should be a detailed list of user requirements that is brand independent (e.g., permanent sleeping for X adults and Y kids, interior storage, on board air compressor, etc.). Split the list into "must-haves" and "nice-to-haves".
Take these lists and start looking at what’s available. You may find that EC or ATW are a perfect fit, or that neither is a suitable match. Talk to as many experienced travelers as possible, including owners of rigs that might meet your requirements. This forum is a very effective place for this.
I see you are in Québec. You may want to contact EC, ATW, and other vendors and find out if they are going to be at Overland Expo East in October. It’s in Asheville NC. It’s also a great place to talk to other folks and see different rigs. Best of luck in your search.
whatcharterboat
Supporting Sponsor, Overland Certified OC0018
Dean, Are you saying that a
"soft sided lifting roof is easier/cheaper than a hard sided lifting roof"
or "that a soft sided lifting roof is easier/cheaper than a fixed hard sided roof" ?
Thanks mate. Regards John
GR8ADV
Explorer
After taking a look at the gxv fuso (awesome actually) it was quite clear that it took some work to pull this off. The canvas fold in looks quite simple in comparison.
pugslyyy
Expedition Vehicle Engineer Guy
I was at XP Camper a few days ago and they are in the middle of building what I believe will be a very nice hard side lifting roof box. This one is going on the back of a unimog, but could easily go on the back of a fuso as well...
(this is an earlier photo, it is further along now)
Right now they are limited in the size (length) of the panels they can make, but are working to address that.
I talked with Marc about them building a hard sided popup for my Canter earlier in the year. Fully fitted out, it was going to be a REALLY good option for me. If I had have been closer, they would have built my box for me. Hard sided popup holds a lot of appeal for me.
ATW, Earthcruiser and the GXV all have their good points. If I was to buy one, I'd be spending a whole lot more time around them in person before deciding, they each have their own personality which suits some people but not others.
yabanja
Explorer
I was completely dedicated to a hard sided design as well until I went to the overland expo and checked out the different options. On a 90 degree day the soft sided vehicles were at least 30 degrees cooler inside. I would be very interested in doing the same comparison on a 30 degree day. I guess it all comes down to where you are going to drive the thing!
A
A
Michelle@EarthCruiser
Active member
Publishing specs on a website causes confusion as different markets have different offerings and inevitably people will be disappointed when they have 'bought in' to a certain model only to find that it is not available to them. We'll be updating our website to make it easier to contact different regions as well as to clarify what we offer here in the US.
These vehicles are only the tools to achieve one's dream. When you know what your dream is and the experience that you want then it is easier to make a choice about what is right for you to accomplish those goals.
The best way to get accurate information is to call us and even better come and spend the day with us. There are reasons why we have created an EarthCruiser the way we have and that design philosophy is not communicated through a spec sheet. For our customers it's all about the experience they want to have.
Michelle-EarthCruiser USA
These vehicles are only the tools to achieve one's dream. When you know what your dream is and the experience that you want then it is easier to make a choice about what is right for you to accomplish those goals.
The best way to get accurate information is to call us and even better come and spend the day with us. There are reasons why we have created an EarthCruiser the way we have and that design philosophy is not communicated through a spec sheet. For our customers it's all about the experience they want to have.
Michelle-EarthCruiser USA
gait
Explorer
design philosophy is an interesting term. For me it meant near zero setup time, space, long term independent travel in remote Aus and beyond, internal living, ergonomic, self-sufficient and sustainable, well ventilated, easy to live in, easily built, reliable, fault tolerant, self-diagnosing, lightweight, vast storage, etc. It all just rolls off the tongue.
Its difficult to describe in a spec what it means to have four people standing inside without feeling uncomfortably close to each other. And to have 6 people seated for long periods without squirming (technical equivalent of "beam me up scottie"). Then moving and sleeping for two. On an inner-sprung mattress. Specs will have "seating for 6", but not for how long. A comfortable bed in the spec, but not how comfortable - my hips ache, buts of course its my hips not the bed!
Zero setup time is not just about having the first cup of coffee within 5 minutes of stopping, for me its about the shower and loo that are "always there", minimal multi-use space, but I have a one minute changeover from seating to bedding.
Ergonomics is important to me. A small thing but I mistakenly reversed the lever taps (faucets?) on return to Aus. Simply not as convenient. A cooker that is a little too far back in the bench so lifting heavy pans is a strain on the crook back. Space to me is a 2m x 600mm contiguous bench top among other things. My wife likes to clutter it up, which means its easier to put things on the bench than where they belong, which may mean a design flaw somewhere (though I doubt I can redesign my wife). It got worse when the ball bearings fell out of some of the drawer runners. Though of course the clean lines and elegant design meant that finding the ball bearings was cinchy.
Ergonomic gets me to doors among many things. It will be close to an engineering miracle when a full size door appears with a pop-top, either solid or floppy. I've seen it on a 16 tonne 6x6 solid lift up 2-storey. When the hydraulics burst access was impossible. I resorted to a post tensioned solid side drop top design. Marketing can work wonders and turn a head banging short door into an accessible feature. Commercial and other promotional imperatives may obfuscate.
If I was in marketing I would describe my design as having evolved from the tensioned arch design of the Sydney Opera House to achieve unparalleled strength with rigidity and flexibility. The shell is an advanced frameless design meticulously built to engineering tolerances to ensure perfectly fitting parts joined with high tech adhesives. But I'm not, so it has a couple of rigging wires with turnbuckles to hold the roof on to a box that's glued together..
There's probably more time spent on designing steps for access than any other part. Consistent step heights is more important to me than absolute pitch and angle - my last step is 20mm height difference to the others, and 25mm less deep, I've lost count of the number of times I've said to visitors "be careful on the top step". But I doubt that will ever show up on anyone's spec sheet.
Light switches were brilliantly placed next to my custom made led light fittings. Great until I could no longer lift my arms above shoulder height (a minor medical hiccough). "Can you turn the light on please" is about as frustrating as life can become for both. I solved the shadows on the bench problem with a "W" of led strips, others solve it differently. Oops, I forgot - lighting is carefully designed to flexibly provide both general and task lighting in an infinite variety of formats.
Specs are easy and objective. But engineering is only part of the story. Design can be an elusive, subjective, pragmatic balance of form and function. A series of compromises. The specs may read the same, but the outcome can be radically different.
Mostly finding the right tool for the job is an iterative process starting from the clean sheet of paper and the uncluttered mind. Constrained by "what do I want to achieve" and "what's available". Potentially constrained by "marketing" and "dominant design" despite our best efforts to escape. Certainly constrained by engineering feasibility, though it will be nice when someone develops a sky hook to go with the perpetual motion.
Neither the chicken nor the egg came first. It was an iterative evolution. So is finding the balance between "what I want" and "what is available".
Always remember that one person's pride and joy is another's ugly baby. And I doubt that any of us are truly objective and realistic about our own designs.
All that on what is basically a Japanese delivery truck which in the cold hard light of objective thought has limitations which may be considered by some to render it just a tad unfit for a different purpose. But what alternatives are there within the constraints. So we get engineering to modify them. And marketing to turn a deficiency into a feature.
Perhaps a little disingenuous though to label it a "global vehicle" when head office don't provide local agents with direct access to the parts book. "Have you got one of these?" seemed to be so much more successful than "I need a radiator cap for an Australian spec 2005 FG649E". And "this is the part number for the wheel studs" seemed to remove the blockage caused by lack of parts availability.
All the above posts are saying the same thing in different ways - there's more to life than specs and aquiring the vehicle that fits the need is a journey. Your greatest asset will be the critical thinking useful in wading through the quagmire.
Its difficult to describe in a spec what it means to have four people standing inside without feeling uncomfortably close to each other. And to have 6 people seated for long periods without squirming (technical equivalent of "beam me up scottie"). Then moving and sleeping for two. On an inner-sprung mattress. Specs will have "seating for 6", but not for how long. A comfortable bed in the spec, but not how comfortable - my hips ache, buts of course its my hips not the bed!
Zero setup time is not just about having the first cup of coffee within 5 minutes of stopping, for me its about the shower and loo that are "always there", minimal multi-use space, but I have a one minute changeover from seating to bedding.
Ergonomics is important to me. A small thing but I mistakenly reversed the lever taps (faucets?) on return to Aus. Simply not as convenient. A cooker that is a little too far back in the bench so lifting heavy pans is a strain on the crook back. Space to me is a 2m x 600mm contiguous bench top among other things. My wife likes to clutter it up, which means its easier to put things on the bench than where they belong, which may mean a design flaw somewhere (though I doubt I can redesign my wife). It got worse when the ball bearings fell out of some of the drawer runners. Though of course the clean lines and elegant design meant that finding the ball bearings was cinchy.
Ergonomic gets me to doors among many things. It will be close to an engineering miracle when a full size door appears with a pop-top, either solid or floppy. I've seen it on a 16 tonne 6x6 solid lift up 2-storey. When the hydraulics burst access was impossible. I resorted to a post tensioned solid side drop top design. Marketing can work wonders and turn a head banging short door into an accessible feature. Commercial and other promotional imperatives may obfuscate.
If I was in marketing I would describe my design as having evolved from the tensioned arch design of the Sydney Opera House to achieve unparalleled strength with rigidity and flexibility. The shell is an advanced frameless design meticulously built to engineering tolerances to ensure perfectly fitting parts joined with high tech adhesives. But I'm not, so it has a couple of rigging wires with turnbuckles to hold the roof on to a box that's glued together..
There's probably more time spent on designing steps for access than any other part. Consistent step heights is more important to me than absolute pitch and angle - my last step is 20mm height difference to the others, and 25mm less deep, I've lost count of the number of times I've said to visitors "be careful on the top step". But I doubt that will ever show up on anyone's spec sheet.
Light switches were brilliantly placed next to my custom made led light fittings. Great until I could no longer lift my arms above shoulder height (a minor medical hiccough). "Can you turn the light on please" is about as frustrating as life can become for both. I solved the shadows on the bench problem with a "W" of led strips, others solve it differently. Oops, I forgot - lighting is carefully designed to flexibly provide both general and task lighting in an infinite variety of formats.
Specs are easy and objective. But engineering is only part of the story. Design can be an elusive, subjective, pragmatic balance of form and function. A series of compromises. The specs may read the same, but the outcome can be radically different.
Mostly finding the right tool for the job is an iterative process starting from the clean sheet of paper and the uncluttered mind. Constrained by "what do I want to achieve" and "what's available". Potentially constrained by "marketing" and "dominant design" despite our best efforts to escape. Certainly constrained by engineering feasibility, though it will be nice when someone develops a sky hook to go with the perpetual motion.
Neither the chicken nor the egg came first. It was an iterative evolution. So is finding the balance between "what I want" and "what is available".
Always remember that one person's pride and joy is another's ugly baby. And I doubt that any of us are truly objective and realistic about our own designs.
All that on what is basically a Japanese delivery truck which in the cold hard light of objective thought has limitations which may be considered by some to render it just a tad unfit for a different purpose. But what alternatives are there within the constraints. So we get engineering to modify them. And marketing to turn a deficiency into a feature.
Perhaps a little disingenuous though to label it a "global vehicle" when head office don't provide local agents with direct access to the parts book. "Have you got one of these?" seemed to be so much more successful than "I need a radiator cap for an Australian spec 2005 FG649E". And "this is the part number for the wheel studs" seemed to remove the blockage caused by lack of parts availability.
All the above posts are saying the same thing in different ways - there's more to life than specs and aquiring the vehicle that fits the need is a journey. Your greatest asset will be the critical thinking useful in wading through the quagmire.
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pugslyyy
Expedition Vehicle Engineer Guy
Thanks Michelle - I agree it's very hard to get to know vehicles like these through a computer screen. I imagine you also like to get to know potential customers so you can make sure they are getting your best solution for their particular needs.
I like the EC, the ATW, the GXV, the XPCamper - they are all solid designs and products that are much more similar than they are different. A lot is getting to know the builder, the designer, getting a good feel for who you are going to be relying on to stand behind their product, etc - very hard to capture that in a spec sheet.
LeishaShannon
Adventurer
Marketing Gold
A thoughtful and considered post, its easy to lose sight of whats really important.
When you get out and actually use your camper, you start learning what matters to you, and where your vehicle falls short of your needs and desires. Then you start planning for your NEXT vehicle. You can't rent an expedition-style vehicle in USA (please correct me if I'm mistaken), but you can rent a pickup truck with large slide-in camper. That would make sense if you don't already have experience with living on board for weeks at a time.
The length of the trips play a role, too. A camper that works fine for a week's outing can become a huge headache when you're on the road for a month.
The length of the trips play a role, too. A camper that works fine for a week's outing can become a huge headache when you're on the road for a month.