EarthRoamer XV-JP "Northwest Edition"
- Thread starter WhereTheHellIsJames?
- Start date
JRhetts
Adventurer
mhiscox
Expedition Leader
Thanks, John That means a lot coming from someone with a vehicle of your sophistication.
mhiscox
Expedition Leader
Some Photos from The Old Days
This might interest some . . . I was in my old Picasa albums organizing some old fiberglass shell pictures when I came across a few pictures of the XV-JP after the tent was gone but before the EarthRoamer roof-raising mechanism was disassembled.
My memory isn't perfect, but if I'm remembering correctly, the roof used to work like this: When the "Loftop Open" switch was pressed, this winch, which was mounted streetside on the aft edge of the nose cone area (ignore the dismantled wiring):
started to spool out the cable, which was also attached to the roof. Below is the best picture I have for showing how the cable from the winch motor raised and lowered the big central hoop. As you can see, to close the roof the hoop was winched down against the pressure from hydraulic ram on each side. And when the cable spooled out, the pressure from the rams could raise the big hoop to a vertical position . . .
where it stopped.
The cable was attached to the cabin roof a bit past the mid-point of the roof, so after the hoop was vertical, the cable spooled out some more until the roof was horizontal. Once the bed/roof was horizontal, the truck's air system inflated the support tubes that held the tent up. In this picture, you can see the air supports and the winch cable--thin and metal looking--on the right side of the picture (not to be confused with the long striped ropes on each side that helped support some of the weight).
When fully deployed, the tent looked like this:
This fairly complicated system, as most readers here know, proved unsatisfactory for several reasons. High points for creativity, though, eh?
This might interest some . . . I was in my old Picasa albums organizing some old fiberglass shell pictures when I came across a few pictures of the XV-JP after the tent was gone but before the EarthRoamer roof-raising mechanism was disassembled.
My memory isn't perfect, but if I'm remembering correctly, the roof used to work like this: When the "Loftop Open" switch was pressed, this winch, which was mounted streetside on the aft edge of the nose cone area (ignore the dismantled wiring):
started to spool out the cable, which was also attached to the roof. Below is the best picture I have for showing how the cable from the winch motor raised and lowered the big central hoop. As you can see, to close the roof the hoop was winched down against the pressure from hydraulic ram on each side. And when the cable spooled out, the pressure from the rams could raise the big hoop to a vertical position . . .
where it stopped.
The cable was attached to the cabin roof a bit past the mid-point of the roof, so after the hoop was vertical, the cable spooled out some more until the roof was horizontal. Once the bed/roof was horizontal, the truck's air system inflated the support tubes that held the tent up. In this picture, you can see the air supports and the winch cable--thin and metal looking--on the right side of the picture (not to be confused with the long striped ropes on each side that helped support some of the weight).
When fully deployed, the tent looked like this:
This fairly complicated system, as most readers here know, proved unsatisfactory for several reasons. High points for creativity, though, eh?
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Yes, and it looks like it made for a huge interior space. I understand you had issues with weatherproofness, but if that could have been overcome (like by living in a desert, like me) it still looks awesome to me. Maybe a flip-pac-style torsion bar would have been a better solution.
I am in love with the idea of an off-road camper that isn't 10,000lbs and that fits on tight trails.
mhiscox
Expedition Leader
Your point is a good one. Remember, though, that the "huge interior space" it has over the revised design is entirely bed, with most of it unusable, even for storage, unless you climb up into it. There's not any more floor space available to you for non-sleeping activities. And with the flop-over design, there's no way to deploy quickly (like at a rest stop) or in campsites with low branches, plus you'd have to work around the fact that any tent the size of the original will be heavy and huge and will intrude into the cabin significantly. (In the case of the original XV-JP, a person of normal size could not comfortably sit in the cabin with the roof down.)
That said, though, you have to figure that if I hadn't originally been taken with the trick tent design, I wouldn't have bought the ER in the first place. And when I got it home, I was as proud as I could be of the design, which sure looked cool on a sunny fall day:
So while the shortcomings of the design should probably have been apparent to me before my purchase, it was only after I'd used the tent that I realized the original setup was unsuitable for my needs. But people in different climates with different uses might well find the original design workable.
Ford Prefect
Expedition Leader
Mike I have heard in the past (read) that some people have had cracking in the lid oweing to the stress placed on it when open. Do you have any thoughts on that? (Like am I sorely mistaken?) Also if there are concerns there would it be possible to perhaps put a pole on the ends that is hinged like those on the AT FlipPacs?
I envision a telescopic pole that is mounted to the front corners, and swings on a hinge etc. Might be able to take some of the strain up.
I confess being terribly enamored with the look of the XV-JP as well, but it would never work for a guy my height and family size. Ah well...
I envision a telescopic pole that is mounted to the front corners, and swings on a hinge etc. Might be able to take some of the strain up.
I confess being terribly enamored with the look of the XV-JP as well, but it would never work for a guy my height and family size. Ah well...
mhiscox
Expedition Leader
Not mistaken, I don't think, but I can only speak with authority on my own setup.
I can't say for sure whether it was a happy situation. The winch pulled only on the streetside edge of the roof/bed as it pulled it up to vertical and that would have introduced uneven forces on the rear hinge and possible problems. However, I don't suspect that the unequal force made a difference once the winch was pulling against the cylinders, as the hoop to which the rams were attached, and the mounting points for the hoop, were very sturdy.
The whole idea of using the winch to close everything against the cylinders' pressure seems, on the surface, suboptimal, but it's really no different than holding pressure against a spring, assuming (as I do) that the hoop and attachments are plenty strong. But I don't feel as confident about the one-sided lifting of the roof from horizontal to vertical, before the hoop and cylinders come into play.
As to whether the pressure put on the open bed/roof by two people in the bed would cause problems, I've no information; fortunately (I suspect) I only used the tent about a dozen times and almost all uses were solo. But it's easy to believe that there could be a problem. It'd be pretty common to have several hundred pounds of weight hanging three or four feet to the rear of the hinge, so the force could be substantial on the hinge, on the winch cable attachment point and at the rope attachment points. The cabin roof (bed base) is pretty thick fiberglass, but the attachment stresses are pretty localized.
Long story short: I didn't have any problems, but I can see how I might have with continued use.
mhiscox
Expedition Leader
Being as the Jeep is pretty much done and functional, most of the work these days consists of modest "scarcely rocket science" attempts to optimize use of the truck. One of the ideas that surfaced some months ago that hadn't been worked on was the plan to make the floor panel into a useful outdoor table, and that got done today.
The XV-JP floor is pretty cool. Generally, the floor is the teak panel Paul glued up and embellished with the copper strips.
Looks really nice and holds up well enough.
However, if you want to sacrifice appearance for somewhat easier cleaning, you can add the Plynl floor mat. Plynl is a vinyl material that has a woven, basketweave texture on the front and foam padding on the back. It's trick stuff, not letting water or dirt through, but with a nice texture and it looks like it will last forever.
Earthroamer used this as their original floor, and they have all my gratitude for including an extra piece in the spares.
If you knew that you were going to make a mess of the cabin floor, you could take out the floor and Plynl and go with the rubber mat approach. This is the way you do things if you're going to use the shower (note the teak grid where the shower drains), but it's also the best surface if you're going to get mud or dust all over.
When taking a shower, you just tip the floor panel on edge in front of the bench, as opposed to taking it out; no need to open the rear door.
Anyway, the teak panel is a nice shape to make a table out of, and experiments showed that the rear bumper of the Jeep was about the right height to support one end. So after some experimentation to determine the best approach, I added a strip of 3M Dual Lock at the rear of the bumper
where is sticks really well (having done the cleaning/alcohol prep thing with vigor),
and then put a strip across the bottom of the table.
(Turns out, BTW, that it's better to use the 400/170 pair than the 250/250 pair, which if you use Dual Lock much, you understand.)
Then I put three strips of 250 Dual Lock an modest distance in from the outboard end, and also put heavy-duty Velcro on the thin plywood piece I'd screwed the adjustable table leg to.
The adjustable table leg came off the Internet. It has better than a foot of adjustment, with stops every inch. The Velcro/Dual Lock combination was preferred to matching Dual Lock pieces because there was no advantage (and some downside) to having the leg stuck too tightly to the table.
So when you want the outdoor table, pull the floor out of the cabin, stick the end with the full-width Dual Lock to the bumper--and do this for real, pushing the mushrooms together over most, if not all, of the surface--
and then, with the leg set to the height you predetermined, stick the Velcro top of the leg to the Dual Lock strips on the table bottom.
Turns out that the table works equally well with the rear cabin door closed,
and it is--an advantage to me--pretty close to the perfect height to read or eat at when sitting in the Pico chair I carry.
And, somewhat obviously (told you it wasn't rocket science), you can use the Plynl as a protective surface;
it's heavy enough that it won't blow away.
And, continuing the run of luck I've had at finding good storage for things in the cabin, the adjustable leg fits into an empty space at the streetside rear of the cabin
where it rides securely without needing any strapping in.
One technical footnote: I can get away with having only one leg because the interlocking of the full width of Dual Lock at the bumper really inhibits side-to-side movement. I'm pretty sure that if you tried attaching the table with Velcro or less Dual Lock, you'd permit enough wobble that a single leg wouldn't cut it. But mashing together the two Dual Lock strips across the full table width makes a big difference. All the table leg is responsible for is keeping the outboard end at the right height; all the fore-aft and left-right stability comes from the bumper attachment.
It's nice that this worked out, and perhaps more valuable than you might at fist think, as the XV-JP cabin holds a maximum of two people when eating, but the table could seat five pretty comfortably. It'll be covered when the Foxwing awning is deployed, so it'll be useful even in the rain. It's sturdy enough to hold something like a grill or camp stove should someone else bring one.
It'd also be a nice feature if you were a great novelist. You could park on the slopes of Kilimanjaro, and put your manual Remington on the table and proceed to one-up Hemingway. Or use your iPad to check Facebook. Whatever works.:sombrero:
Addendum: Not a lot about Plynl on the web. Great stuff, but not mainstream camper fodder. Start here if you are interested: http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/what-the-heck-i-20762
The XV-JP floor is pretty cool. Generally, the floor is the teak panel Paul glued up and embellished with the copper strips.
Looks really nice and holds up well enough.
However, if you want to sacrifice appearance for somewhat easier cleaning, you can add the Plynl floor mat. Plynl is a vinyl material that has a woven, basketweave texture on the front and foam padding on the back. It's trick stuff, not letting water or dirt through, but with a nice texture and it looks like it will last forever.
Earthroamer used this as their original floor, and they have all my gratitude for including an extra piece in the spares.
If you knew that you were going to make a mess of the cabin floor, you could take out the floor and Plynl and go with the rubber mat approach. This is the way you do things if you're going to use the shower (note the teak grid where the shower drains), but it's also the best surface if you're going to get mud or dust all over.
When taking a shower, you just tip the floor panel on edge in front of the bench, as opposed to taking it out; no need to open the rear door.
Anyway, the teak panel is a nice shape to make a table out of, and experiments showed that the rear bumper of the Jeep was about the right height to support one end. So after some experimentation to determine the best approach, I added a strip of 3M Dual Lock at the rear of the bumper
where is sticks really well (having done the cleaning/alcohol prep thing with vigor),
and then put a strip across the bottom of the table.
(Turns out, BTW, that it's better to use the 400/170 pair than the 250/250 pair, which if you use Dual Lock much, you understand.)
Then I put three strips of 250 Dual Lock an modest distance in from the outboard end, and also put heavy-duty Velcro on the thin plywood piece I'd screwed the adjustable table leg to.
The adjustable table leg came off the Internet. It has better than a foot of adjustment, with stops every inch. The Velcro/Dual Lock combination was preferred to matching Dual Lock pieces because there was no advantage (and some downside) to having the leg stuck too tightly to the table.
So when you want the outdoor table, pull the floor out of the cabin, stick the end with the full-width Dual Lock to the bumper--and do this for real, pushing the mushrooms together over most, if not all, of the surface--
and then, with the leg set to the height you predetermined, stick the Velcro top of the leg to the Dual Lock strips on the table bottom.
Turns out that the table works equally well with the rear cabin door closed,
and it is--an advantage to me--pretty close to the perfect height to read or eat at when sitting in the Pico chair I carry.
And, somewhat obviously (told you it wasn't rocket science), you can use the Plynl as a protective surface;
it's heavy enough that it won't blow away.
And, continuing the run of luck I've had at finding good storage for things in the cabin, the adjustable leg fits into an empty space at the streetside rear of the cabin
where it rides securely without needing any strapping in.
One technical footnote: I can get away with having only one leg because the interlocking of the full width of Dual Lock at the bumper really inhibits side-to-side movement. I'm pretty sure that if you tried attaching the table with Velcro or less Dual Lock, you'd permit enough wobble that a single leg wouldn't cut it. But mashing together the two Dual Lock strips across the full table width makes a big difference. All the table leg is responsible for is keeping the outboard end at the right height; all the fore-aft and left-right stability comes from the bumper attachment.
It's nice that this worked out, and perhaps more valuable than you might at fist think, as the XV-JP cabin holds a maximum of two people when eating, but the table could seat five pretty comfortably. It'll be covered when the Foxwing awning is deployed, so it'll be useful even in the rain. It's sturdy enough to hold something like a grill or camp stove should someone else bring one.
It'd also be a nice feature if you were a great novelist. You could park on the slopes of Kilimanjaro, and put your manual Remington on the table and proceed to one-up Hemingway. Or use your iPad to check Facebook. Whatever works.:sombrero:
Addendum: Not a lot about Plynl on the web. Great stuff, but not mainstream camper fodder. Start here if you are interested: http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/what-the-heck-i-20762
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westyss
Explorer
Thanks for the update and the reminder of how rich and lush the interior looks, I remember when Paul made that floor and I thought at the time that it was a shame to have anyone step on that floor, my prediction is that it will be a table full time soon!
How does that dual lock perform when dirty?
How does that dual lock perform when dirty?
mhiscox
Expedition Leader
My experience on the campers is that it's the best temporary attachment method you can find for messy conditions, Not perfect, but it can be hosed off easily and it doesn't hang onto stuff too much. Way better than Velcro, which tends to get a lot of stuff stuck in it that won't come off until you sit down and pick at it.
But Dual Lock, being thick, rigid, expensive and really "grippy," won't serve in most Velcro situations, so you'll pretty much have to go with Velcro anyway if you need a quick, often-used attachment system. Having said that, though, they do make a "low-profile" Dual Lock that is much thinner and more flexible, and wimpier, and thus more suited to less-rigorous tasks. It's supposed to be about four time stronger than Velcro, so it's kind of a middle ground that be good for some uses.
JRhetts
Adventurer
Yes, at least some did have a problem with the lid cracking and the hinges coming loose. The one on our trans-central america trip had this problem, making a weather secure closure difficult to impossible.
Nice looking design, all right. But has some significant shortcomings.
mhiscox
Expedition Leader
It was a tough fight, Ma, but we won . . .
It's appalling to admit that you have to go back to the summer (posts 532 and 566) to get the complete description of the problem, but I finally got the a new water heater installed in the XV-JP. I guess I wasn't working on it very hard because I didn't expect any success, and I didn't have any for a good long while, but I finally figured it out this week and got it installed.
The quick recap is that the original heat exchanger heater:
was too big and that resulted in connections that were convoluted and unreliable:
and twice flooded the floorpan.
The idea was to replace it with this smaller direct replacement, which had to come from Europe:
Unfortunately, there was a foulup, and I got the wrong heater from Eurocampers, this 12V, non-heat-exchange model:
To make matters worse, while significantly smaller overall, it was as every bit as long as the original heater.
It could have been returned, but it took 10 weeks to get here originally, so I figured it'd be another 20 weeks after I mailed back the electric heater before I received the right, heat exchange, unit, so I decided I'd try to make the 12 volt unit work.
Turns out that I wasted time in every way possible. In particular, I disassembled all of the wiring
so I could "remote" it and use the space taken up by the cream-colored plastic lump on the end. That almost worked, but the water connections were still hitting the bottom of the propane locker.
No need to go through all the gory details, but I eventually found that the combination of
-- using a short pressure release valve,
-- removing EarthRoamer's grey water drain piping,
-- using flexible tubing for the connections to the tank so I could get the 180 degree bends I needed without kinking,
-- making the main tank-to-system connections above the tank instead of at the end,
-- routing a new grey water drain line off the floor above the heater drain but below the inlet and outlet hoses,
-- doing without a heater drain hose, and
-- securing the heater to a cabinet wall instead of having it on mounting feet secured to the floorpan,
made the setup work, even with the wiring and thermostat back into the plastic housing.
BTW, the two wraparound dents in the foam on either side of the RipTie are from Super QuickFist mountings, which originally seemed like the perfect mounting system, but even the modest inch-plus height of their mounting feet messed things up.
Not having a dedicated drain line is odd, but it's practical to disconnect the heater at the Gatorbite PEX connections, undo the RipTie cinch strap, detach the grey water drain hose at the tank and pull the heater out to drain it.
I haven't made the connection to the house 12V system yet, but that's trivial in comparison to making the heater fit and the connections leakproof. So it looks like all is finally in order. I'll have a report later about how well the all-electric water heating strategy works.
It's appalling to admit that you have to go back to the summer (posts 532 and 566) to get the complete description of the problem, but I finally got the a new water heater installed in the XV-JP. I guess I wasn't working on it very hard because I didn't expect any success, and I didn't have any for a good long while, but I finally figured it out this week and got it installed.
The quick recap is that the original heat exchanger heater:
was too big and that resulted in connections that were convoluted and unreliable:
and twice flooded the floorpan.
The idea was to replace it with this smaller direct replacement, which had to come from Europe:
Unfortunately, there was a foulup, and I got the wrong heater from Eurocampers, this 12V, non-heat-exchange model:
To make matters worse, while significantly smaller overall, it was as every bit as long as the original heater.
It could have been returned, but it took 10 weeks to get here originally, so I figured it'd be another 20 weeks after I mailed back the electric heater before I received the right, heat exchange, unit, so I decided I'd try to make the 12 volt unit work.
Turns out that I wasted time in every way possible. In particular, I disassembled all of the wiring
so I could "remote" it and use the space taken up by the cream-colored plastic lump on the end. That almost worked, but the water connections were still hitting the bottom of the propane locker.
No need to go through all the gory details, but I eventually found that the combination of
-- using a short pressure release valve,
-- removing EarthRoamer's grey water drain piping,
-- using flexible tubing for the connections to the tank so I could get the 180 degree bends I needed without kinking,
-- making the main tank-to-system connections above the tank instead of at the end,
-- routing a new grey water drain line off the floor above the heater drain but below the inlet and outlet hoses,
-- doing without a heater drain hose, and
-- securing the heater to a cabinet wall instead of having it on mounting feet secured to the floorpan,
made the setup work, even with the wiring and thermostat back into the plastic housing.
BTW, the two wraparound dents in the foam on either side of the RipTie are from Super QuickFist mountings, which originally seemed like the perfect mounting system, but even the modest inch-plus height of their mounting feet messed things up.
Not having a dedicated drain line is odd, but it's practical to disconnect the heater at the Gatorbite PEX connections, undo the RipTie cinch strap, detach the grey water drain hose at the tank and pull the heater out to drain it.
I haven't made the connection to the house 12V system yet, but that's trivial in comparison to making the heater fit and the connections leakproof. So it looks like all is finally in order. I'll have a report later about how well the all-electric water heating strategy works.