Educate me on Inverters ?

[Shawn686]

Would using a sure protector, protect thing from the spikes?

Shawn

 

[kenallwine]

A surge protector is designed around the protection levels of indirect lightning strikes at your house. There are more sensitive devices for protection but the smaller devices are bandaids. Most surge protection is built with Metal Oxide Varisters (MOVs). They are designed to break down over time. More advanced devices use Gas Tubes and other technologies.

To produce clean reliable power, the BEST option is a pure sine wave inverter. The bigger is issue than the little voltage spikes is the stepping involtage as the inverter tries to create the rough sine wave. That is the hardest on electronics. I'll look into any ways to mitigate the damage that could be done with a modified sine wave.

 

[Shawn686]

Thanks for the info, and any info on protection would be appreciated. I already have a 1000W mod sine and I would like to use it while I save for a pure sine inverter.

Shawn

 

[winkosmosis]

The normal home UPSes output a square wave, and they work fine. The PSU in the computer converts to DC.

 

[kenallwine]

The normal home UPSes output a square wave, and they work fine. The PSU in the computer converts to DC.

This is true however, the home PC UPS is what is considered an offline UPS where they are not constantly inverting DC to AC. Most of them just pass the AC through to the PC under normal conditions and only switched to inversion mode when they are consuming the battery. That is why you hear a loud click when you loose power. That is the UPS switching for AC power to battery power.

 

[kenallwine]

Thanks for the info, and any info on protection would be appreciated. I already have a 1000W mod sine and I would like to use it while I save for a pure sine inverter.

Shawn

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying don't use it. I just want everyone to understand the differences in the technologies and the downfalls of each. Most of your gear will run fine. However, in the LONG run, some of the gear will get damaged. How long? Well that really depends on the engineering design that went into each device. Could be months, could be years.

Just one thing to consider. If you look at the solar industry (residential) all the small inverters that collect from the solar arrays and connect to your home are pure sine wave outputs.

I hope I'm not confusing the issue for anyone :coffeedrink:

If anyone has and specific concerns on sizing, I would be happy to help work out load calculations if you want to split your power systems. Just shoot me a message.ROFSheriffHL:

 

[Shawn686]

No worries, I am still going to use it. I just don't know how long it will be before a pure sine inverter makes it to the top of the to buy list. And I would like to protect the things I plan on charging.

Shawn

 

[keezer36]

kenallwine-

Can you expound on what I assume is Pulse Width Modulation in post #18, your oscope display? While not a sine wave, this PWM waveform I take to be the most rudimentary (very cheap inverter). Would a higher quality PWM inverter have a more gradual step up/step down waveform and the circuitry to clip the spikes and therefore sufficient for laptops and the like without going medical grade$$$?

You can get a good Tripp Lite 1800W for less than $300, 1000W for less than $200.

 

[mesha]

great thread, it answered some of the questions I had myself. I just got a redi-line generator yet to be installed. I think this is a pure sine not a mod. Might want to look into these they are high quality units that last forever.

 

[wrcsixeight]

I used the Vector shown above to charge my Macbook Pro once on a recent trip. The Mac power adaptor became HOT. Any new ideas for charging laptops?

http://www.laptoppartsnow.com/power-car-apple-macbook.html

I have an car adapter from this place. It works perfect, generates very little heat, and consumes 15 to 30% less juice than when I use my noisy inverter and the laptop's OEM power brick.

It is a DC to DC adapter that just steps up the voltage. It is more efficient than using an inverter. 12vDC to ~19.5vDC instead of 12v dc to 120 ac back to ~19.5 DC

 

[stonehenge]

Tagging on:

I am currently running this Vector MAXX 500W inverter. I have used it to charge a few different Mac laptops without issue. Have I been lucky? Or do the Apple chargers convert this dirty power satisfactorily?

I am considering the Trippe PV700HF inverter as it will give me a slight boost in performance and (hopefully?) the fan is not as loud? It seems like a quality inverter (all metal construction, known brand) for a decent price. Is this inverter clean enough for laptop charging, or is true sine wave the only way to go?

http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtModelID=3610

I was using a 1000 watt inverter i bought at a truckstop that was wired directly to my Optima Yellow top the entire 4 days at overland expo to charge my Macbook with no problems. I have been using these types of inverters for the past 5 years to power and recharge my laptops while on (and off) the road while traveling with no issues ever.

I used to build specialized police vehicles and never used pure sine for any inverter application nor was i asked for it at the time. Ironically, just this week we were asked by a new customer to build a few trailers with this option.

 

[wrcsixeight]

Now that looks interesting! Must be better than having my hairdryer loud inverter cranking away for hours. This is a quality unit? Does it charge in a normal amount of time? Seems like it would be much better for leaving plugged in during use as well.

The battery within my laptop is useless. It will last just long enough to switch from one power cord to the other.

The DC to DC car adapter in the link I posted above allows the laptop to work exactly like the original one which came with your laptop and plugs into the wall/ grid/ inverter. The laptop will not know the difference.

I have a battery monitor, and although the laptops power requirement varies constantly with the task, when I use my car Adapter the amps used are always significantly less than when powered with the Inverter.

I have noticed my laptop's original power brick gets hotter on MSW Inverter than when plugged into the grid, but it never failed. Also my laptop seemed to run a little slower after the battery was fully charged when running on my MSW inverter.

I've had my DC to DC car laptop adapter for a year now. It is great. Great for traveling in other's vehicles as well. Nothing like burning a CD for your Buddy when sitting in traffic.

I notice one can get a pure sine 120 watt inverter for 100$ now. If you have other electronics that you want to run on PSW, maybe this option is better.
http://www.donrowe.com/inverters/puresine_120.html

http://www.invertersrus.com/pwri18012s.html

I just read some reviews of AIMS PSW inverters on Amazon. I'd give it a wide berth, and go with Samlex. Amazon is selling a PSW xantrex 600 watt PSW for 154.http://www.amazon.com/Prowatt-SW600-Watt-Sinewave-Inverter/dp/B002O5P8BA

 

[biere]

While playing on amazon I found some dc to dc chargers specifically for my model of laptop. So I would start looking there and search from that. I am searching and reading about the different ones listing my specific laptop and will buy one in the next week or two. As mentioned they are more efficient and I am after efficiency. The prices are running 35 bucks and less for most of them as well.

One thing I am trying out but not trusting yet is something I found at walmart. It is a dc to dc toy but you can change out the plugs on it and adjust how much power it pushes through it. I need to get my volt/ohm meter back and see how well this thing really works but it is cheap and got my attention because of the different adapter plugs for charging stuff. I would not use it with something expensive but it might be ok for some cheaper stuff. It was 15 or 20 bucks I think. They had a house current version as well.

Thanks for the discussion on pure sine wave stuff, I have 3 cheap invertors and do use them but I don't tend to use them with expensive stuff just because I don't want to shorten any lifespans on my stuff.

I am glad pure sine wave stuff is coming down in price, my goal is to use it and keep the cheap modified wave stuff around for emergency backups.